Re: Bachelorette 7 Videos - Discussion - Thread #2

[Love_Me]

I think it all goes back to whoever gets a 1-1 date during episode 3 has a 50% chance of being the F1. I know it will be brought up that Mickey could have gotten a 1-1 date if JP won the coin toss to Vegas, but with how scripted this show has become I have a very hard time buying that. JMO

Does anyone remember who actually flipped the coin? It wasn't JP or Mickey, right? I'd wondered if the coin toss was rigged somehow. I think I remember it being Ryan (their Bachelor backup plan) flipping it, which makes it more suspicious to me. I just find it interesting that JP conveniently gets his first 1-on-1 date after Bentley leaves, then gets his second 1-on-1 date after Bentley comes back and leaves again, and now from the episode description it sounds like Ashley talks to Ryan after her dates with Ben and Constantine, but before her date with JP. You just know Ryan probably arrived in Fiji around the same time as the other guys, but they were waiting to unleash him on Ashley at the perfect moment.

It was Ryan M. that read the date card and flipped the coin. After he flips the coin they flash to the guys faces. So we never actually see the coin being flipped and landing on the group to know for sure.

[chicagoowl]

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

Sorry to quote just you, ironcat, but your words were handy. And I've seen this same line of thought posted by so many JP fans that I finally had to say something.


And, IMO (all of this is IMO so I won't keep repeating my disclaimer), I think that reasoning is a load of caca!! Ben's edit is great and he's being shown to be a very kind and genuine man who is rediscovering his emotional side. Heck, he tells you this every episode, thanks to the editors. He is also being edited with a very playful and fun side which is 10 times the personality that Chris L was ever shown to have (and we know post TB how funny Chris L is). I personally think Ben is being edited to be just as fun and funny and entertaining as Reid was, and I should know since I'm a fan of both. Even Reid was shown going through some self-discovery and opening up about love during his season. I don't think that many would argue against Reid being a great Bachelor just like I definitely think Ben would would also be able to carry a Bachelor season with flying colors. And of course I hope, just like I hoped for Reid, that Ben won't do it.

So, what jumps out at me every time I see Ben's edited personality put down and blown off as not being strong enough to carry the show by JP fans is this -- I see fear, I see JP fans as still somehow threatened by Ben, even at this stage of the season. And then I wonder why?

If Ben's so boring and non-threatening to the ordained pairing of JP and Ashley, why is there the need to continually put him down?


Stepping off my soapbox now.

P.S. I don't like anything about JP. I don't like his looks or his cockiness or his attitude or his ego or his anything. But I do not feel the need to go around posting that in every thread. Nor do I feel a need to even venture into his dedicated threads. So IMO it would be nice if JP fans could show the same respect to Ben.

It seems like she started "noticing" Ben the episode after B left. IT seems like initially William, Ryan, JP & B were on her radar for the F4. That's when Ben even commented on the orphanage date how she had been "fluttering around him more than usual" or whatever words he used. So Ben wasn't really in the forefront of the episodes or in TB's minds initially

[bluwavz]

I think it all goes back to whoever gets a 1-1 date during episode 3 has a 50% chance of being the F1. I know it will be brought up that Mickey could have gotten a 1-1 date if JP won the coin toss to Vegas, but with how scripted this show has become I have a very hard time buying that. JMO

Does anyone remember who actually flipped the coin? It wasn't JP or Mickey, right? I'd wondered if the coin toss was rigged somehow. I think I remember it being Ryan (their Bachelor backup plan) flipping it, which makes it more suspicious to me. I just find it interesting that JP conveniently gets his first 1-on-1 date after Bentley leaves, then gets his second 1-on-1 date after Bentley comes back and leaves again, and now from the episode description it sounds like Ashley talks to Ryan after her dates with Ben and Constantine, but before her date with JP. You just know Ryan probably arrived in Fiji around the same time as the other guys, but they were waiting to unleash him on Ashley at the perfect moment.

It was Ryan M. that read the date card and flipped the coin. After he flips the coin they flash to the guys faces. So we never actually see the coin being flipped and landing on the group to know for sure.

Thank you, Love. I knew it was one of the Ryan's.

[Reidiscool]

Well here's the kicker.... San said at the beginning of the season that JP/Ash reminded her of Ali/Roberto. I was fooled by the Roberto edit because they edited out all substantial conversations between the two and made their relationship "appear" to be superficial. JP and Ash have not been shown to have any substantial conversations either so maybe I'm fooled again. Who knows.

But Ben's edit is different than CLs in one important way in that they have shown us much more of a connection than we were ever shown with CL/Ali

Really? Funny how people see things differently because I think JP and Ash have been nothing but substantial conversations - Bentley, past relationships, how they feel about each other, struggling with the process, etc. In fact, I was glad to see the rollerskating because it was nice to see them just laughing and being goofy for once. Of course, they promptly ruined the fun with a convo about JP's broken heart and how sure he is about them as a couple. Not sure what that means for previous patterns/edits though...

Maybe that's it. All they seem to talk about is his past relationship, how he was hurt before, how can he be sure is feelings are real...all negative stuff which just leaves me with a gloom of foreshadowing. Bentley as a topic of conversation is another interesting thing for me. JP's first date was the day Bentley left and it was short by his own admission. Ash looked emotionally drained and had obviously been crying all day. JPs PI said something along the lines of "I'll touch on Bentley leaving, but then it's our night or something along those lines. The next Bentley conversation was her big declaration to him in HK, his reaction was strange to me and he just seemed relieved that Bent was out of the picture, and not too concerned that Ash had actually really fallen for this guy. Kind of like, one down, 6 to go, until I win this thing. Admittedly Ash gave him lot's of reassurance that it was important that she finished this thing with Bentley in order for Ashley to move forward with JP and we were left with not uncertain impression that it was only JP she wanted to move forward with. The fact that they showed this conversation and nothing of Ben's is a red flag to me. I know something significant happened in HK with Ash and Ben on the night of the RC. His voiceovers that were shown in their one-one time from the HK boat group date actually happened on the night of the HK rose ceremony as he's dressed in his RC suit/tie. These were very powerful statements on Ben's behalf :"My feelings for Ashley are stronger than they've ever been. I'm on the path to Love, Who would have thunk it, the biggest skeptic of all, this guy, the biggest skeptic of all. And "The walls are down and if that means I get crushed in the end that's part of it. At the same time if I end up with a girl that I love then that would be a dream come true" . Something big happened for Ben that night but we weren't shown what prompted these strong statements.

You're really on the ball today and it's keeping my from my chores. That's something I hadn't thought about. We knew that Ben got a chance to talk to Ashley but we weren't shown it. What did we miss? Would it have taken away from the impression that JP was the one she was worried most about?

Well, if there really was a critical conversation to explain how their relationship moved to a deeper level that was left on the cutting room floor, and Ben turns out to be F1, then Fleiss should fire his editing team, because that would be maybe the biggest blunder that anyone who passed Editing 101 should have easily avoided. Absolutely no reason to edit that out, especially since Ben was barely on viewers' radars at that point. So it wouldn't have given anything away, but it would have laid some groundwork for what was to come.

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

If Ben is F1, then TPTb did a disservice to him and Ashley. Why hide the love story? I shouldn't have to hunt for it. Ashley's got alot of explaining to do and a journal isn't going to do it if Ben is F1! LOL I guess we could look at it like maybe she considered JP her last fling before settling down in Sonoma...

I disagree, by starting their love story AFTER Bentley left, their love story doesn't get tarnished by Bentley. JP as F1 whatever way you look at it looks to be second best and Ashley settling. JMO

[philphan]

The JP/Ash connection started in the first episode. Ashley was attracted to JP right out of the limo and then of course was the cute cupcake discussion. The chemistry continued to build for them with each episode....regardless of the whole Bentley saga. If anything, the honest and open discussion about Bentley made their relationship even stronger. So the way I look at it, I'm just not seeing Ashley settling to make a relationship work nor do I think JP is second best in Ashley's eyes (the eyes that matter).

[Shelby]

another season, same people, same emotions

I was on channy train and when it was confirmed that emily was F1 (2 weeks before the finale), I was upset.... well... I just suck it up and accepted that I was wrong and even if I saw bremily everywhere I posted, that was okay with me. This brad season I was wrong, the previous one with al I was on the other side with roberto's train.

I am thrilled that JP is #1 this season (yeah yeah, not yet, I get it)... I have no idea on which train I will be next season. What I care is that for a period of time I see a love story and my romantic side is happy and if it does not end the way ****I**** see it then it is okay. One week after the show I will forget about them! For a short period of time I have FUN but when I read nasty responses, aggressive with no respect, my fun is no longer there. I just cringe.

I mean I will never understand people sticking around so visibly unhappy. I call that masochism at that point no? Mu suggestion: open up a forum for your F2, then make sure that each member will be dedicated to the F2 only. There. peace and love! By joining THIS forum, we should all accept that people will disagree. We should be gracious when we loose and happy to be happy that we guessed right. If some hate that much one's opinion or attitude, just ignore it for god's sake and go and see if elsewhere is greener!!!

I just have a hard time that people can be SO over the top on each coma because the F1 is not the one they picked. Even the name "JP" in Ben F thread is not tolerated. I mean this is a show... It goes to the point where I think we should need to create a venting thread so the other will keep have fun and respect each other even if they disagree. (Loe_me when will we have an IGNORE button that will allow us to do NOT see the posts of people we do not like?)

I am sorry to say that I despite the bad loosers. For me the funniest part in the monopoly is when I finish totally broke because after the game is over my partners tease me no end after that and I think it is still fun. just a matter of opinion. It is mine and I am sticking to it! ha!


ps: sorry for the venting. feel better now... now.... where were we??


Love_me .... can we start a fresh new thread please?

[black_tears]

another season, same people, same emotions

I was on channy train and when it was confirmed that emily was F1 (2 weeks before the finale), I was upset.... well... I just suck it up and accepted that I was wrong and even if I saw bremily everywhere I posted, that was okay with me. This brad season I was wrong, the previous one with al I was on the other side with roberto's train.

I am thrilled that JP is #1 this season (yeah yeah, not yet, I get it)... I have no idea on which train I will be next season. What I care is that for a period of time I see a love story and my romantic side is happy and if it does not end the way ****I**** see it then it is okay. One week after the show I will forget about them! For a short period of time I have FUN but when I read nasty responses, aggressive with no respect, my fun is no longer there. I just cringe.

I mean I will never understand people sticking around so visibly unhappy. I call that masochism at that point no? Mu suggestion: open up a forum for your F2, then make sure that each member will be dedicated to the F2 only. There. peace and love! By joining THIS forum, we should all accept that people will disagree. We should be gracious when we loose and happy to be happy that we guessed right. If some hate that much one's opinion or attitude, just ignore it for god's sake and go and see if elsewhere is greener!!!

I just have a hard time that people can be SO over the top on each coma because the F1 is not the one they picked. Even the name "JP" in Ben F thread is not tolerated. I mean this is a show... It goes to the point where I think we should need to create a venting thread so the other will keep have fun and respect each other even if they disagree. (Loe_me when will we have an IGNORE button that will allow us to do NOT see the posts of people we do not like?)

I am sorry to say that I despite the bad loosers. For me the funniest part in the monopoly is when I finish totally broke because after the game is over my partners tease me no end after that and I think it is still fun. just a matter of opinion. It is mine and I am sticking to it! ha!


ps: sorry for the venting. feel better now... now.... where were we??


Love_me .... can we start a fresh new thread please?

Speaking as someone who is completely neutral this season (could give two figs less if Ashley picks JP, Ben, or MF....Ew. Ok, I draw the line at MF. Although I do think Ben is muy caliente.) I'm finding it interesting to wade through some of the threads and how passionate we can all get about an edited reality tv show. I'm not saying I've not been there before, but I think it's important to realize that at the end of the day, we don't really know these people or what they're really like. Hell, I thought Jesse K. from Jillian's season was a sweet guy with a weird brother who sold wine. (2 out of 3 there for reality... ) As invested as we may become with the contestants, at the end of the day I doubt Ben F. is going to give a shit whether or not we think he has a boring edit, or JP's probably not crying in his beer because I don't think that he's sexay. So everybody just breath and enjoy these last few episodes we have left.

[pavalygurl]

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

Sorry to quote just you, ironcat, but your words were handy. And I've seen this same line of thought posted by so many JP fans that I finally had to say something.


And, IMO (all of this is IMO so I won't keep repeating my disclaimer), I think that reasoning is a load of caca!! Ben's edit is great and he's being shown to be a very kind and genuine man who is rediscovering his emotional side. Heck, he tells you this every episode, thanks to the editors. He is also being edited with a very playful and fun side which is 10 times the personality that Chris L was ever shown to have (and we know post TB how funny Chris L is). I personally think Ben is being edited to be just as fun and funny and entertaining as Reid was, and I should know since I'm a fan of both. Even Reid was shown going through some self-discovery and opening up about love during his season. I don't think that many would argue against Reid being a great Bachelor just like I definitely think Ben would would also be able to carry a Bachelor season with flying colors. And of course I hope, just like I hoped for Reid, that Ben won't do it.

So, what jumps out at me every time I see Ben's edited personality put down and blown off as not being strong enough to carry the show by JP fans is this -- I see fear, I see JP fans as still somehow threatened by Ben, even at this stage of the season. And then I wonder why?

If Ben's so boring and non-threatening to the ordained pairing of JP and Ashley, why is there the need to continually put him down?


Stepping off my soapbox now.

P.S. I don't like anything about JP. I don't like his looks or his cockiness or his attitude or his ego or his anything. But I do not feel the need to go around posting that in every thread. Nor do I feel a need to even venture into his dedicated threads. So IMO it would be nice if JP fans could show the same respect to Ben.

Thanks so much for this well written post. It reflects exactly what I feel, especially the bolded section.

[Pattycake92]

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

Sorry to quote just you, ironcat, but your words were handy. And I've seen this same line of thought posted by so many JP fans that I finally had to say something.


And, IMO (all of this is IMO so I won't keep repeating my disclaimer), I think that reasoning is a load of caca!! Ben's edit is great and he's being shown to be a very kind and genuine man who is rediscovering his emotional side. Heck, he tells you this every episode, thanks to the editors. He is also being edited with a very playful and fun side which is 10 times the personality that Chris L was ever shown to have (and we know post TB how funny Chris L is). I personally think Ben is being edited to be just as fun and funny and entertaining as Reid was, and I should know since I'm a fan of both. Even Reid was shown going through some self-discovery and opening up about love during his season. I don't think that many would argue against Reid being a great Bachelor just like I definitely think Ben would would also be able to carry a Bachelor season with flying colors. And of course I hope, just like I hoped for Reid, that Ben won't do it.

So, what jumps out at me every time I see Ben's edited personality put down and blown off as not being strong enough to carry the show by JP fans is this -- I see fear, I see JP fans as still somehow threatened by Ben, even at this stage of the season. And then I wonder why?

If Ben's so boring and non-threatening to the ordained pairing of JP and Ashley, why is there the need to continually put him down?


Stepping off my soapbox now.

P.S. I don't like anything about JP. I don't like his looks or his cockiness or his attitude or his ego or his anything. But I do not feel the need to go around posting that in every thread. Nor do I feel a need to even venture into his dedicated threads. So IMO it would be nice if JP fans could show the same respect to Ben.

Thanks so much for this well written post. It reflects exactly what I feel, especially the bolded section.

I haven't seen where Bens has been put down. I did see some outrageous accusations made against JP. I think you are confusing info that points to Ben being f2 as put downs. It's not. If I see a tweet that indicates Ben is still in San Fran and post it in Bens thread, I should not be made to feel unwelcome.

[ironcat]

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

Sorry to quote just you, ironcat, but your words were handy. And I've seen this same line of thought posted by so many JP fans that I finally had to say something.


And, IMO (all of this is IMO so I won't keep repeating my disclaimer), I think that reasoning is a load of caca!! Ben's edit is great and he's being shown to be a very kind and genuine man who is rediscovering his emotional side. Heck, he tells you this every episode, thanks to the editors. He is also being edited with a very playful and fun side which is 10 times the personality that Chris L was ever shown to have (and we know post TB how funny Chris L is). I personally think Ben is being edited to be just as fun and funny and entertaining as Reid was, and I should know since I'm a fan of both. Even Reid was shown going through some self-discovery and opening up about love during his season. I don't think that many would argue against Reid being a great Bachelor just like I definitely think Ben would would also be able to carry a Bachelor season with flying colors. And of course I hope, just like I hoped for Reid, that Ben won't do it.

So, what jumps out at me every time I see Ben's edited personality put down and blown off as not being strong enough to carry the show by JP fans is this -- I see fear, I see JP fans as still somehow threatened by Ben, even at this stage of the season. And then I wonder why?

If Ben's so boring and non-threatening to the ordained pairing of JP and Ashley, why is there the need to continually put him down?


Stepping off my soapbox now.

P.S. I don't like anything about JP. I don't like his looks or his cockiness or his attitude or his ego or his anything. But I do not feel the need to go around posting that in every thread. Nor do I feel a need to even venture into his dedicated threads. So IMO it would be nice if JP fans could show the same respect to Ben.

Sorry you took my opinion of why Ben was not given more screentime to be a putdown of him, or indication that I am somehow threatened by him. That was not my intent, nor is it anywhere close to the truth of the matter. To me, Ben seems like a nice enough guy, but based on how little screen time he was given in the earlier episodes, compared to Chris L, it was a logical assumption on my part that the producers must have had a reason, and it probably had to do with feeling that he was not contributing as much entertainment value to the show as Chris was. The proof is in the pudding, as in the first half of the season, he was not on the average fan's radar, and there was no widespread clamoring for "more Ben" from the masses. Perhaps if they had been willing to give him more camera time, things would have been different with average viewers. But they chose not to for a reason. Perhaps you feel it's because he's actually F1, and the plan was to create the most shocking comeback in the history of the show. I don't believe this is the case, so I was proposing an alternate scenario to explain the strange edit. I did state it was my opinion only.

You obviously dislike JP immensely, so perhaps are overly sensitive to any perceived criticism of Ben, especially now that all outside evidence is starting to overwhelmingly point to a F2 finish for him. I'm sorry that you felt the need to take your frustration out on me. I wish you well.

[emusha]

Speaking as someone who is completely neutral this season (could give two figs less if Ashley picks JP, Ben, or MF....Ew. Ok, I draw the line at MF. Although I do think Ben is muy caliente.) I'm finding it interesting to wade through some of the threads and how passionate we can all get about an edited reality tv show. I'm not saying I've not been there before, but I think it's important to realize that at the end of the day, we don't really know these people or what they're really like. Hell, I thought Jesse K. from Jillian's season was a sweet guy with a weird brother who sold wine. (2 out of 3 there for reality... ) As invested as we may become with the contestants, at the end of the day I doubt Ben F. is going to give a shit whether or not we think he has a boring edit, or JP's probably not crying in his beer because I don't think that he's sexay. So everybody just breath and enjoy these last few episodes we have left.

ITA LOL I guess I'll jump your car & ride along the 'neutral' train honking a chooo chooo for all of us to get along!! It really is just TV my people! Rock on

[GrahamGal]

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

Sorry to quote just you, ironcat, but your words were handy. And I've seen this same line of thought posted by so many JP fans that I finally had to say something.


And, IMO (all of this is IMO so I won't keep repeating my disclaimer), I think that reasoning is a load of caca!! Ben's edit is great and he's being shown to be a very kind and genuine man who is rediscovering his emotional side. Heck, he tells you this every episode, thanks to the editors. He is also being edited with a very playful and fun side which is 10 times the personality that Chris L was ever shown to have (and we know post TB how funny Chris L is). I personally think Ben is being edited to be just as fun and funny and entertaining as Reid was, and I should know since I'm a fan of both. Even Reid was shown going through some self-discovery and opening up about love during his season. I don't think that many would argue against Reid being a great Bachelor just like I definitely think Ben would would also be able to carry a Bachelor season with flying colors. And of course I hope, just like I hoped for Reid, that Ben won't do it.

So, what jumps out at me every time I see Ben's edited personality put down and blown off as not being strong enough to carry the show by JP fans is this -- I see fear, I see JP fans as still somehow threatened by Ben, even at this stage of the season. And then I wonder why?

If Ben's so boring and non-threatening to the ordained pairing of JP and Ashley, why is there the need to continually put him down?


Stepping off my soapbox now.

P.S. I don't like anything about JP. I don't like his looks or his cockiness or his attitude or his ego or his anything. But I do not feel the need to go around posting that in every thread. Nor do I feel a need to even venture into his dedicated threads. So IMO it would be nice if JP fans could show the same respect to Ben.

Thanks so much for this well written post. It reflects exactly what I feel, especially the bolded section.

I haven't seen where Bens has been put down. I did see some outrageous accusations made against JP. I think you are confusing info that points to Ben being f2 as put downs. It's not. If I see a tweet that indicates Ben is still in San Fran and post it in Bens thread, I should not be made to feel unwelcome.

Same here. In no way did I see this as a put down of Ben. I too like Ben a lot, but I just don't see him as F1. I think he will make some woman very happy one day. I just don't think it will be Ashley.

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