Re: VO & PI's - Discussion - Bachelorette 8 - Thread #1

[JBF]

you did not mentioned arie rubbing her knee as well. I think it is revealing that she is interested to jef and arie is interested to her.

Ha ha! Arie certainly has no trouble touching her. He is often tapping her on shoulders and nudging up to her... No question he is NOT uptight Brad in that department. However I didn't catch the leg scene like you did.

[Shelby]

ok. I am standing by what I said.

I think jef is not at ease with cameras on his face. This is not shyness but more about reserve and aware that whatever will be taped, this may be distorted tenfold.

We always assume that guys never watched any season prior their arrival. I think it is a lot to assume. I think anyone would and should be curious about the show and watch it before they accept to sign up. If they do not, then I find that really not mature. IMO you do not jump on the unknown even for fun. Spontaneous okay but dumb no.

accepting that jef watch some episodes and why not emily's season? (sean admited and charlie as well that they knew that it was emily), jef who is a smart guy who built his own successful business, did assess the risks etc

this said. people who can completely let go and kiss in front of 5-10 crewmen is for me just WOW. I don,t judge. it is just out of my confort zone. exhibitionism eh?

[JBF]

ok. I am standing by what I said.

I think jef is not at ease with cameras on his face. This is not shyness but more about reserve and aware that whatever will be taped, this may be distorted tenfold.

Re-watching Trista's season, Ryan Sutter behaves much the same as Jef. Charlie Maher LOVED being on camera and talking and talking and talking...

[Shelby]

ok. I am standing by what I said.

I think jef is not at ease with cameras on his face. This is not shyness but more about reserve and aware that whatever will be taped, this may be distorted tenfold.

Re-watching Trista's season, Ryan Sutter behaves much the same as Jef. Charlie Maher LOVED being on camera and talking and talking and talking...

damn! I wished I could find trista's season and watch it.

But I heard many interviews from trista and ryan so I have an idea about their personalities plus I watched the day prior their wedding.

So yes. I picture emily as trista... both wearing the pants in the family and ryand and jef very sensitive family guys with soft voice and kind spirit.

[bilolo]

i just wanted to share my opinion not tried to bring people to agree with me

[Archer23]

ok. I am standing by what I said.

I think jef is not at ease with cameras on his face. This is not shyness but more about reserve and aware that whatever will be taped, this may be distorted tenfold.

We always assume that guys never watched any season prior their arrival. I think it is a lot to assume. I think anyone would and should be curious about the show and watch it before they accept to sign up. If they do not, then I find that really not mature. IMO you do not jump on the unknown even for fun. Spontaneous okay but dumb no.

accepting that jef watch some episodes and why not emily's season? (sean admited and charlie as well that they knew that it was emily), jef who is a smart guy who built his own successful business, did assess the risks etc

this said. people who can completely let go and kiss in front of 5-10 crewmen is for me just WOW. I don,t judge. it is just out of my confort zone. exhibitionism eh?

JP and Ashley and Meredith and Ian clearly had no problem losing themselves in each other and forgetting about the cameras, but I wouldn't characterize any of them as exhibitionists. In both cases, I just think they were so in tune with each other that it didn't matter who or what else was around them. Some people are better at blocking that out than others, but I certainly don't think that's borne out of any desire to expose themselves to the cameramen or anyone else.

Frankly, I've never understood why people who feel uncomfortable dating or kissing in front of cameras would even want to go on the Bachelor/ette in the first place. It's not really a big mystery what this show's all about.

[Shelby]

ok. I am standing by what I said.

I think jef is not at ease with cameras on his face. This is not shyness but more about reserve and aware that whatever will be taped, this may be distorted tenfold.

We always assume that guys never watched any season prior their arrival. I think it is a lot to assume. I think anyone would and should be curious about the show and watch it before they accept to sign up. If they do not, then I find that really not mature. IMO you do not jump on the unknown even for fun. Spontaneous okay but dumb no.

accepting that jef watch some episodes and why not emily's season? (sean admited and charlie as well that they knew that it was emily), jef who is a smart guy who built his own successful business, did assess the risks etc

this said. people who can completely let go and kiss in front of 5-10 crewmen is for me just WOW. I don,t judge. it is just out of my confort zone. exhibitionism eh?

JP and Ashley and Meredith and Ian clearly had no problem losing themselves in each other and forgetting about the cameras, but I wouldn't characterize any of them as exhibitionists. In both cases, I just think they were so in tune with each other that it didn't matter who or what else was around them. Some people are better at blocking that out than others, but I certainly don't think that's borne out of any desire to expose themselves to the cameramen or anyone else.

Frankly, I've never understood why people who feel uncomfortable dating or kissing in front of cameras would even want to go on the Bachelor/ette in the first place. It's not really a big mystery what this show's all about.

maybe but there is what you see from the outside and on paper and there is what you are experiencing directly. BIG HUGE difference IMO.

i kindly disagree with you. unless you have some exhibitionism, it would not be possible to have camera around. that they loose into each other: very true!

the exhibitionism can be rated from 1 to 10. It it not the same for everyone. I personally hate to be taken in pictures. I feel awkward, my smile is forced, I feel totally stupid each time I see me. I mean my driving license is totally scary... so imagining me being taped? OMG!

this is why the producers ask a 15 min tape from each contestant to see their level of confort. so IMO, some are more at ease than some....

[JBF]

We HAVE to argue this stuff out because we sure ain't seein' much with all of the lop & chop in the editing. Next episode will all be about Doug the Tattletale and the whole "baggage" drama with Kalon and others, probably not Jef, Arie and Sean...

Oh Shelby, I lost my Trista VHS tapes and then re-found them by accident. Wow! I shouldn't have watched them before this season. In one way, these two seasons are different: with Trista, we were doing hometowns by episode #4. Yet in other ways, these seasons have more in common than the other Bachelorettes. Not any "exact matches" mind you, but certain editing tricks are too similar for comfort. Many key quotes by BOTH Arie and Sean strongly resemble Trista's F2 Charlie as if they are alternating in his position.

In fact, Sean has several "duplicate" scenes shared by Charlie. The visiting friends label each guy "hot" and consider him a frontrunner. At least two discussions are about fatherhood. Jef and Ryan may fleetingly discuss kids, but average viewers are not thinking "Dad" with those two. Sean and Charlie also interrupt another's time in episode #1 (while Arie and Trista's Russ interrupt somebody in a later episode). They get the second 1 on 1 date of the final three (Arie & Trista's F3 Russ get theirs first and Jef & Ryan last) and both get the last hometown date (again... with Jef and Arie before Sean and Ryan and Russ before Charlie).

Now Charlie's date involved an amusement park like Arie, actually a water park but with roller-coaster-ish slides. Also, like Arie's date, Trista gets excited to meet big celebrity who is a special favorite of hers and Charlie is happy for her... some hairdresser and a fashion designer (forgot their names). Trista coos away like Emily does over Dolly Parton, completely forgetting Charlie is with her! There is also a fancy car scene like Ali's Frank and Ashley's William... and one of Jillian's early dumpees. Sean just gets the Lonon bus in his preview. Oh... Arie does fly like William and Trista's Russ (who got a blimp to match his ego). Then Trista and Charlie dressed up for dinner, but Arie was more casual in his.... "crab house" setting. We shall see how Sean looks for his evening portion.

It looks like Charlie and Russ' dates on Trista's season are composites of both Arie and Charlie, but NOT Jef. Ryan did get a theme park, Sea World, but it was treated very differently than Charlie's. Humorously, he fussed about not kissing her as she kissed the dolphins. They made a big hoopty-doo about Ryan not kissing Trista... she pecks him once at Sea World, but the hometown kiss is The Important One. Yet Trista was all open mouthed with Russ (getting other guys angry in a Las Vegas group date) and close-mouth smacking constantly with Charlie.

No poems yet... there were two that season. We got letters from Doug's kid and Ryan each instead.

[Iluvbachette]

ok. I am standing by what I said.

I think jef is not at ease with cameras on his face. This is not shyness but more about reserve and aware that whatever will be taped, this may be distorted tenfold.

Re-watching Trista's season, Ryan Sutter behaves much the same as Jef. Charlie Maher LOVED being on camera and talking and talking and talking...

damn! I wished I could find trista's season and watch it.

But I heard many interviews from trista and ryan so I have an idea about their personalities plus I watched the day prior their wedding.

So yes. I picture emily as trista... both wearing the pants in the family and ryand and jef very sensitive family guys with soft voice and kind spirit.

I actually read on twitter this morning. That MF has asked Trista if she can get a vote together and 10,000 yes. They are thinking of reruning Trista's season and possibly the wedding.

[KikiLove]

ok. I am standing by what I said.

I think jef is not at ease with cameras on his face. This is not shyness but more about reserve and aware that whatever will be taped, this may be distorted tenfold.

Re-watching Trista's season, Ryan Sutter behaves much the same as Jef. Charlie Maher LOVED being on camera and talking and talking and talking...

damn! I wished I could find trista's season and watch it.

But I heard many interviews from trista and ryan so I have an idea about their personalities plus I watched the day prior their wedding.

So yes. I picture emily as trista... both wearing the pants in the family and ryand and jef very sensitive family guys with soft voice and kind spirit.

I actually read on twitter this morning. That MF has asked Trista if she can get a vote together and 10,000 yes. They are thinking of reruning Trista's season and possibly the wedding.

Ooooh, I would absolutely love that! :cutesmile!: :Clap:

[Guest]

I don't know if you're still on the subject at the start of this thread about that one voice over being Jef or Arie, but it sounds like Jef. Not only how he says his words, but the quality of his voice. Arie's voice is deeper. Jef's is softer, which that voice over is. It's Jef.

Ha ha! Our scenic detours on this thread do get a bit far off track at times.

What is your opinion on this voice comparison?

If Joe is speaking the above quote, he is essentually telling Jef what he has to do. Maybe Jef loses confidence at some point in this "journey" and needs the encouragement? This promo was compiled after the hometowns but before the final rose ceremony. Apparently this "journey" had some bumps along the way. It wasn't all smooth sailing.

On April 23, after the Utah hometown, @Fleissmeister tweeted:
"@EmilyMaynard just delivered another bachelorette first!"
"@EmilyMaynard goes her own way"
"It's all good with @EmilyMaynard !!! I think she is going to complete her journey with love in her heart..."

Some here think she does something regarding Arie, who gets the next hometown. That is possible, although Mike Fleiss must be hearing about something that happened some hours earlier... or the day before. This makes ME suspect it relates to Jef in some way. Whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, Fleiss had plenty of confidence four days later (or was expecting somebody to do a little "mind work" to speed events along): "Neil Lane had better bring his A-game!!!" Now, why would he suggest rings when the Fantasy Dates haven't started yet?

It is extremely difficult to determine what exactly is going on in that mind of Fleiss, but I do chuckle over his remark April 24th (as Arie's date was being shot) "We are closing in on a song for Emily's season. How does #Bachelornation feel about 'Believe' by Cher? I just love that song"

Emily stated herself on people.com concerning episode #2: "I wanted him to give this whole experience a chance – I truly believe it can work if the right two people find each other."

In the promo, Emily's voice-overs covering Jef shots are most interesting:
"I want to meet my husband so bad"
"There is nothing more that I want to make my family complete." (essentually Jef being capable of twirling ONE kid around... despite Emily previously freaking us out with her "put your money where your mouth is" comment over a stampede of little feet)
"I feel like he is ready to be a husband and a dad."
Later on, Dolly Parton corrects Emily's mindset of doing this for Ricki with the demand that she finds "true love" and Emily chirps that, yeah, that is more important than just adding on to the nursery. She did help smash Travis' egg after all, since it might potentially freak Jef out in the rose ceremonies. Funny, once the egg was gone, Travis no longer had to stand right next to Jef in the line-ups.

Is it just me or does each guy on this show talk like some "sound-board" (if that's the right word) for Jef?

-Chris says he can't believe a good looking woman like Emily would have interest in "ordinary looking" HIM. (No doubt Jef questions the same thing.)
-Arie laughs about being small in the "muscles" outtake as Sean and Doug compare their abs measurements with him.
-Ryan calls Arie "dainty" and fusses about Emily kissing him. Now, this covers two points of interest. If Emily has no problem kissing "dainty" Arie, she will have no problem with "dainty" Jef. Also Ryan's concern about Emily kissing other guys may be shared by Jef, but Emily is very good in explaining herself on screen when talking about Ryan. Also in People.com: "I also don't think Ryan would've had any problems if I was kissing him instead of Arie! Speaking of kissing, as Jef and I were walking down to the beach, I was thinking, What a perfect place for us to have our first kiss! Clearly he wasn't thinking the same thing!"
-Then again, Doug tells Ryan that kissing is NOT the most important part of a relationship and tells us in PI that he purposely refrained from initiating a kiss with her. Grandpa knows best.
-Like Jef, Charlie was one often under-estimated by physical appearances alone. As Ryan tells Joe and others in episode 2, you would never guess that such a bulky guy would have communication troubles due to a head injury.
-Sean says to Emily's friends that his family is "founded on faith". (Hmmm... anybody else with a religious background?)
-Also the battle between Doug and Chris regarding age is significant. Both Chris and dumped Nate are about 25 years old. Nate was dumped not because of his age but because, according to Charlie (also dumped that episode), he was still "wet behind the ears". (Paraphrasing here) Emily felt he hadn't a lot of experience under his belt... er... maybe I should rephrase that. To get to the point: Chris had more experiences at the same age and his argument with Doug that age is just a number is a sound one. (Of course, Doug has had plenty of experience himself, being a foster child who lost his father at a young age and being a father now.) Jef is 27, not 25, but many may view him as too "young". ("I’m very different from other business owners that are buckle-down because I’m young and I want to enjoy life.")
-Even Kalon often makes PIs that indirectly reference Jef in some way, like saying in episode #2 that the guys are too distracted watching others with Emily instead of making time with her themselves. This sets up Ryan fussing about Arie kissing her.

I dunno... Maybe none of this relates. Maybe these tibits are just loose jigsaw puzzles that don't fit together. Any other opinions?

Oh boy! Hope you folks don't mind another detour here.

This TV show is so storyboarded, I am literally gagging over all of the Cute Little Coincidences. Of course, we are hammered over the head with this Daddy Business. In episode #1, Jef's skateboard talk and Emily's hope that "he thinks I'm cool too" is sandwiched between Travis's "kid" Shelly and Doug's letter from kid Austin. Doug even gets the first impression rose because he is such a "good dad". In a way, I am quite grateful that Ryan forces Tony to wait in episode #2 for his love letter to be read by Emily first. (Frankly, if Emily actually cared about Tony, she would make Ryan stop.) Alas... all Tony wants to discuss with Emily is HIS child. Ryan is basically delaying Emily from more of that "kid talk". If that isn't enough... the same episode (#3) Emily persuades Travis to ditch Shelly, a blubbering Tony decides to leave because he missing his little brute. Adding another Cute Little Coincidence here... Bentley Williams (who comes from the same state as Jef) left Ashley in last year's episode #3 because he missed Cozy. This was a Big White Lie. Bentley left because Michelle Money ratted him out and he basically thought Ashley was an Ugly Duckling compared to Great Emily herself! Now, a year later, Emily hardly sheds a tear when Tony leaves. Well... Jef commented on Ryan delaying Tony and was "let's be honest" regarding Tony's departure. Oh Jefie... tell me Tony bothered you as much as Shelly. How can you compete with so many daddies?

You know what I like when I read you JBF? it is all the little details put one after another and trying to get inside the producers head so we can figure it out which storyline they had in mind.

this said... my theory is this:

at the hometown, emily had a first. so what kind of first? I have this romantic idea that emily told jef that she loved him. that he was the one. We never saw this kind of direct without ambiguity declaration in the hometown in previous seasons right? So instead of playing coy, give jef clues. she decided to stop the game because it was no longer a game for her.

Emily showed many times that press the right buttons and she is not afraid to say what she has in mind.

Now... saying that jef was the one, obviously the last hometown date with arie would be 1/ difficult because arie is at this point very in love 2/ a done deal (more than ready to move on).

The "what went wrong with arie", is only this. She told him that she made her choice. arie is F3 and therefore no fantasy date for him

remain sean... which does not know that she told jef is the only one. so he has to go for the fantasy date. Everyone is ready for the final play but since emily spoiled the deal the producers have now the only choice but let go sean before the FRC, trying to find some kind of dramatic exit to justify the fantasy or the lack of fantasy dates. sean being also in love with emily, it is easy to think that drama and mancry will be there too (after arie's exit the previous week).

so instead of trying to find a drama in the life of arie (ex girlfriend, cassie L, cassieH)... it was just very simple: emily fell in love with jef all along and she wanted to be a lady, no fantasy dates, no ambiguity.

they did not sent back sean because the producers wanted some extra taping to add in their drama storyline, same with arie.

that would explain the: emily was more than ready, Neil Lane had better bring his A-game!, emily did a first...

That is the storyline I thought up at the end, as well. I'd love to see that.

[Iluvbachette]

If you look at interactions all along with the guys, Jef, and Em. You will pick up on many little details. Some times you have to watch a scene a dozen times till it hits you square in the face. Lets take this last episode for example. Jef is being more open toward Em. He is happier this time to get the rose. And reaches over and touches her knee and says thanks. Then you have the firework scene with Jef, Em all thumbs and hugs in front of the guys. Jef asking Em if she's cold and when she sits down he rubs her back. But what you probably didn't see is this on the yacht date. When they first walk up to greet Emily. Everyone has smiles. As if to say she is smoking hot. Aire looks at Ryan and is smiling big. Ryan goes towards Jef with his back to the camera and seems to say something. Then as he walks back Jef is all smiles, and tells Em she looks amazing. As in other shows like Ash and Ali. They knew from the beginning but had to play it out. The producers know from the beginning so they have to stratigize and play out the story line. They have a story line going in, they just have to fill in the pieces to the puzzle with names. They are clever they know that they have hit a home run with Em so far. And I am sure that all the leaks were more than intentional to get people interested, and for the fish to keep nibbling without taking the bait just yet. Thanks to TPTB, I am loving Em's season, and finally fill like we are getting a love story right in front of our eyes. Mike said he would deliver. So far he has held up his end of the bargain.

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