Re: VO & PI's - Discussion - Bachelorette 8 - Thread #1

[JBF]

Although none of us were there to be 100% certain, many of us suspect, based on rose ceremony positions, that Ryan, not Ben, was her initial final two at this point (ep #5- Chiang Mai). Constantine took Ryan's spot in Taiwan's (ep #7) rose ceremony (opposite side of JP). Ben "officially" became F2 at the post-hometown ceremony.

All of this is, of course, open to debate and we all love to argue back and forth on these subjects. Just like Ashley saying Bentley was "my guy", when she cried even more at the comedy roast than when Bentley left... hinting that William was initially VERY high up in her affections indeed. All of these seasons have a story-behind-the-story that Fleiss feels is not the public's business and the timing of Bentley's departure after the roast is hardly a coincidence.

BUT... back to topic... and the topic of voice-overs. In the hometown deliberation (somewhere somebody can find us a screencap), JP's photo was in the middle too. Here is Ashley's voice-over for that episode (#8), which I found stashed in my "notes":

Ashley: Tonight is going to be so hard
JP photo shown first: If it were up to me,
Moving over to Ames photo: I would take all four guys on more dates but…
Constantine: The truth is I need to start really figuring things out and make some tough decisions…
Ben: Time is running out but…
She touches JP’s photo: I’m in such a great place right now.
All photos seen, but a slow pan out with JP’s strategically in the middle: I’m ready. I’m ready to find my husband.

They pretty much confirm to you, with four guys left, that BOTH Ames and Ben will not be "the one" and poor Ben is in the little-too-late-to-make-his-move category, although Constantine is still a question mark. He gets the "tough decisions" line since he would be the one bailing out during the Fantasy Date.

With this last deliberation, Emily picked up Kalon's photo. However, none of her voice-overs matched Jef. That doesn't mean Jef wasn't a frontrunner. It just means what she was fussing about in that moment didn't involve him but some of the guys without roses. No doubt her opinion of Kalon was pretty high at this stage.

[Guest]

I don't know if you're still on the subject at the start of this thread about that one voice over being Jef or Arie, but it sounds like Jef. Not only how he says his words, but the quality of his voice. Arie's voice is deeper. Jef's is softer, which that voice over is. It's Jef.

[JBF]

I don't know if you're still on the subject at the start of this thread about that one voice over being Jef or Arie, but it sounds like Jef. Not only how he says his words, but the quality of his voice. Arie's voice is deeper. Jef's is softer, which that voice over is. It's Jef.

Ha ha! Our scenic detours on this thread do get a bit far off track at times.

What is your opinion on this voice comparison?

If Joe is speaking the above quote, he is essentually telling Jef what he has to do. Maybe Jef loses confidence at some point in this "journey" and needs the encouragement? This promo was compiled after the hometowns but before the final rose ceremony. Apparently this "journey" had some bumps along the way. It wasn't all smooth sailing.

On April 23, after the Utah hometown, @Fleissmeister tweeted:
"@EmilyMaynard just delivered another bachelorette first!"
"@EmilyMaynard goes her own way"
"It's all good with @EmilyMaynard !!! I think she is going to complete her journey with love in her heart..."

Some here think she does something regarding Arie, who gets the next hometown. That is possible, although Mike Fleiss must be hearing about something that happened some hours earlier... or the day before. This makes ME suspect it relates to Jef in some way. Whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, Fleiss had plenty of confidence four days later (or was expecting somebody to do a little "mind work" to speed events along): "Neil Lane had better bring his A-game!!!" Now, why would he suggest rings when the Fantasy Dates haven't started yet?

It is extremely difficult to determine what exactly is going on in that mind of Fleiss, but I do chuckle over his remark April 24th (as Arie's date was being shot) "We are closing in on a song for Emily's season. How does #Bachelornation feel about 'Believe' by Cher? I just love that song"

Emily stated herself on people.com concerning episode #2: "I wanted him to give this whole experience a chance – I truly believe it can work if the right two people find each other."

In the promo, Emily's voice-overs covering Jef shots are most interesting:
"I want to meet my husband so bad"
"There is nothing more that I want to make my family complete." (essentually Jef being capable of twirling ONE kid around... despite Emily previously freaking us out with her "put your money where your mouth is" comment over a stampede of little feet)
"I feel like he is ready to be a husband and a dad."
Later on, Dolly Parton corrects Emily's mindset of doing this for Ricki with the demand that she finds "true love" and Emily chirps that, yeah, that is more important than just adding on to the nursery. She did help smash Travis' egg after all, since it might potentially freak Jef out in the rose ceremonies. Funny, once the egg was gone, Travis no longer had to stand right next to Jef in the line-ups.

Is it just me or does each guy on this show talk like some "sound-board" (if that's the right word) for Jef?

-Chris says he can't believe a good looking woman like Emily would have interest in "ordinary looking" HIM. (No doubt Jef questions the same thing.)
-Arie laughs about being small in the "muscles" outtake as Sean and Doug compare their abs measurements with him.
-Ryan calls Arie "dainty" and fusses about Emily kissing him. Now, this covers two points of interest. If Emily has no problem kissing "dainty" Arie, she will have no problem with "dainty" Jef. Also Ryan's concern about Emily kissing other guys may be shared by Jef, but Emily is very good in explaining herself on screen when talking about Ryan. Also in People.com: "I also don't think Ryan would've had any problems if I was kissing him instead of Arie! Speaking of kissing, as Jef and I were walking down to the beach, I was thinking, What a perfect place for us to have our first kiss! Clearly he wasn't thinking the same thing!"
-Then again, Doug tells Ryan that kissing is NOT the most important part of a relationship and tells us in PI that he purposely refrained from initiating a kiss with her. Grandpa knows best.
-Like Jef, Charlie was one often under-estimated by physical appearances alone. As Ryan tells Joe and others in episode 2, you would never guess that such a bulky guy would have communication troubles due to a head injury.
-Sean says to Emily's friends that his family is "founded on faith". (Hmmm... anybody else with a religious background?)
-Also the battle between Doug and Chris regarding age is significant. Both Chris and dumped Nate are about 25 years old. Nate was dumped not because of his age but because, according to Charlie (also dumped that episode), he was still "wet behind the ears". (Paraphrasing here) Emily felt he hadn't a lot of experience under his belt... er... maybe I should rephrase that. To get to the point: Chris had more experiences at the same age and his argument with Doug that age is just a number is a sound one. (Of course, Doug has had plenty of experience himself, being a foster child who lost his father at a young age and being a father now.) Jef is 27, not 25, but many may view him as too "young". ("I’m very different from other business owners that are buckle-down because I’m young and I want to enjoy life.")
-Even Kalon often makes PIs that indirectly reference Jef in some way, like saying in episode #2 that the guys are too distracted watching others with Emily instead of making time with her themselves. This sets up Ryan fussing about Arie kissing her.

I dunno... Maybe none of this relates. Maybe these tibits are just loose jigsaw puzzles that don't fit together. Any other opinions?

Oh boy! Hope you folks don't mind another detour here.

This TV show is so storyboarded, I am literally gagging over all of the Cute Little Coincidences. Of course, we are hammered over the head with this Daddy Business. In episode #1, Jef's skateboard talk and Emily's hope that "he thinks I'm cool too" is sandwiched between Travis's "kid" Shelly and Doug's letter from kid Austin. Doug even gets the first impression rose because he is such a "good dad". In a way, I am quite grateful that Ryan forces Tony to wait in episode #2 for his love letter to be read by Emily first. (Frankly, if Emily actually cared about Tony, she would make Ryan stop.) Alas... all Tony wants to discuss with Emily is HIS child. Ryan is basically delaying Emily from more of that "kid talk". If that isn't enough... the same episode (#3) Emily persuades Travis to ditch Shelly, a blubbering Tony decides to leave because he missing his little brute. Adding another Cute Little Coincidence here... Bentley Williams (who comes from the same state as Jef) left Ashley in last year's episode #3 because he missed Cozy. This was a Big White Lie. Bentley left because Michelle Money ratted him out and he basically thought Ashley was an Ugly Duckling compared to Great Emily herself! Now, a year later, Emily hardly sheds a tear when Tony leaves. Well... Jef commented on Ryan delaying Tony and was "let's be honest" regarding Tony's departure. Oh Jefie... tell me Tony bothered you as much as Shelly. How can you compete with so many daddies?

[LWan]

I She did help smash Travis' egg after all, since it was freaking Jef out in the rose ceremonies. Funny, once the egg was gone, Travis no longer had to stand right next to Jef in the line-ups.

-Back in episode #2, Charlie was nervous about performing with the Muppets. (Ditto Jef despite us not hearing about it)
child.

I realize this is not what you were looking for in your post, so I will be quick - just wondering what you referring to in the above quotes? I must have missed something, I didn't hear about him freaked about the egg or nervous about the muppets. Thanks!

[JBF]

I She did help smash Travis' egg after all, since it was freaking Jef out in the rose ceremonies. Funny, once the egg was gone, Travis no longer had to stand right next to Jef in the line-ups.

-Back in episode #2, Charlie was nervous about performing with the Muppets. (Ditto Jef despite us not hearing about it)
child.

I realize this is not what you were looking for in your post, so I will be quick - just wondering what you referring to in the above quotes? I must have missed something, I didn't hear about him freaked about the egg or nervous about the muppets. Thanks!

Ooooooh... I guess I should have rephrased stuff! I am teasing with a few of my lines, hoping not everybody is taking me literally. Noooooo... Jef never said anything specific. You have to wonder why that silly egg was always close by him, though. It would freak me out, if not him.

Actually, I will re-edit those lines... just so there isn't so much confusion.

[Guest]

does anyone transcribe all the PIs in an episode? Might be helpful.

I am used to somebody doing that for Survivor. Of course, TB editing is not quite as intricate as Survivor's award winning editing but it might be helpful.

For instance, Dainty was pretty much the narrator for E4 and he had at least 2 instances of him saying that how he is closer to Em than anyone else in the house and how confident he is with cuts to Jem that it felt redundant.

Ari: “I am so confident by what we have that I am not threatened by anyone in the house.” (cut to Jem walking to the beach)

Ari: “. . . I don’t feel like anyone [else] in the house has that connection with her and it feels good.” (cut to Em giving the GDR to Jef)

I am not used to editing being this heavyhanded.

[Shelby]

I don't know if you're still on the subject at the start of this thread about that one voice over being Jef or Arie, but it sounds like Jef. Not only how he says his words, but the quality of his voice. Arie's voice is deeper. Jef's is softer, which that voice over is. It's Jef.

Ha ha! Our scenic detours on this thread do get a bit far off track at times.

What is your opinion on this voice comparison?

If Joe is speaking the above quote, he is essentually telling Jef what he has to do. Maybe Jef loses confidence at some point in this "journey" and needs the encouragement? This promo was compiled after the hometowns but before the final rose ceremony. Apparently this "journey" had some bumps along the way. It wasn't all smooth sailing.

On April 23, after the Utah hometown, @Fleissmeister tweeted:
"@EmilyMaynard just delivered another bachelorette first!"
"@EmilyMaynard goes her own way"
"It's all good with @EmilyMaynard !!! I think she is going to complete her journey with love in her heart..."

Some here think she does something regarding Arie, who gets the next hometown. That is possible, although Mike Fleiss must be hearing about something that happened some hours earlier... or the day before. This makes ME suspect it relates to Jef in some way. Whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, Fleiss had plenty of confidence four days later (or was expecting somebody to do a little "mind work" to speed events along): "Neil Lane had better bring his A-game!!!" Now, why would he suggest rings when the Fantasy Dates haven't started yet?

It is extremely difficult to determine what exactly is going on in that mind of Fleiss, but I do chuckle over his remark April 24th (as Arie's date was being shot) "We are closing in on a song for Emily's season. How does #Bachelornation feel about 'Believe' by Cher? I just love that song"

Emily stated herself on people.com concerning episode #2: "I wanted him to give this whole experience a chance – I truly believe it can work if the right two people find each other."

In the promo, Emily's voice-overs covering Jef shots are most interesting:
"I want to meet my husband so bad"
"There is nothing more that I want to make my family complete." (essentually Jef being capable of twirling ONE kid around... despite Emily previously freaking us out with her "put your money where your mouth is" comment over a stampede of little feet)
"I feel like he is ready to be a husband and a dad."
Later on, Dolly Parton corrects Emily's mindset of doing this for Ricki with the demand that she finds "true love" and Emily chirps that, yeah, that is more important than just adding on to the nursery. She did help smash Travis' egg after all, since it might potentially freak Jef out in the rose ceremonies. Funny, once the egg was gone, Travis no longer had to stand right next to Jef in the line-ups.

Is it just me or does each guy on this show talk like some "sound-board" (if that's the right word) for Jef?

-Chris says he can't believe a good looking woman like Emily would have interest in "ordinary looking" HIM. (No doubt Jef questions the same thing.)
-Arie laughs about being small in the "muscles" outtake as Sean and Doug compare their abs measurements with him.
-Ryan calls Arie "dainty" and fusses about Emily kissing him. Now, this covers two points of interest. If Emily has no problem kissing "dainty" Arie, she will have no problem with "dainty" Jef. Also Ryan's concern about Emily kissing other guys may be shared by Jef, but Emily is very good in explaining herself on screen when talking about Ryan. Also in People.com: "I also don't think Ryan would've had any problems if I was kissing him instead of Arie! Speaking of kissing, as Jef and I were walking down to the beach, I was thinking, What a perfect place for us to have our first kiss! Clearly he wasn't thinking the same thing!"
-Then again, Doug tells Ryan that kissing is NOT the most important part of a relationship and tells us in PI that he purposely refrained from initiating a kiss with her. Grandpa knows best.
-Like Jef, Charlie was one often under-estimated by physical appearances alone. As Ryan tells Joe and others in episode 2, you would never guess that such a bulky guy would have communication troubles due to a head injury.
-Sean says to Emily's friends that his family is "founded on faith". (Hmmm... anybody else with a religious background?)
-Also the battle between Doug and Chris regarding age is significant. Both Chris and dumped Nate are about 25 years old. Nate was dumped not because of his age but because, according to Charlie (also dumped that episode), he was still "wet behind the ears". (Paraphrasing here) Emily felt he hadn't a lot of experience under his belt... er... maybe I should rephrase that. To get to the point: Chris had more experiences at the same age and his argument with Doug that age is just a number is a sound one. (Of course, Doug has had plenty of experience himself, being a foster child who lost his father at a young age and being a father now.) Jef is 27, not 25, but many may view him as too "young". ("I’m very different from other business owners that are buckle-down because I’m young and I want to enjoy life.")
-Even Kalon often makes PIs that indirectly reference Jef in some way, like saying in episode #2 that the guys are too distracted watching others with Emily instead of making time with her themselves. This sets up Ryan fussing about Arie kissing her.

I dunno... Maybe none of this relates. Maybe these tibits are just loose jigsaw puzzles that don't fit together. Any other opinions?

Oh boy! Hope you folks don't mind another detour here.

This TV show is so storyboarded, I am literally gagging over all of the Cute Little Coincidences. Of course, we are hammered over the head with this Daddy Business. In episode #1, Jef's skateboard talk and Emily's hope that "he thinks I'm cool too" is sandwiched between Travis's "kid" Shelly and Doug's letter from kid Austin. Doug even gets the first impression rose because he is such a "good dad". In a way, I am quite grateful that Ryan forces Tony to wait in episode #2 for his love letter to be read by Emily first. (Frankly, if Emily actually cared about Tony, she would make Ryan stop.) Alas... all Tony wants to discuss with Emily is HIS child. Ryan is basically delaying Emily from more of that "kid talk". If that isn't enough... the same episode (#3) Emily persuades Travis to ditch Shelly, a blubbering Tony decides to leave because he missing his little brute. Adding another Cute Little Coincidence here... Bentley Williams (who comes from the same state as Jef) left Ashley in last year's episode #3 because he missed Cozy. This was a Big White Lie. Bentley left because Michelle Money ratted him out and he basically thought Ashley was an Ugly Duckling compared to Great Emily herself! Now, a year later, Emily hardly sheds a tear when Tony leaves. Well... Jef commented on Ryan delaying Tony and was "let's be honest" regarding Tony's departure. Oh Jefie... tell me Tony bothered you as much as Shelly. How can you compete with so many daddies?

You know what I like when I read you JBF? it is all the little details put one after another and trying to get inside the producers head so we can figure it out which storyline they had in mind.

this said... my theory is this:

at the hometown, emily had a first. so what kind of first? I have this romantic idea that emily told jef that she loved him. that he was the one. We never saw this kind of direct without ambiguity declaration in the hometown in previous seasons right? So instead of playing coy, give jef clues. she decided to stop the game because it was no longer a game for her.

Emily showed many times that press the right buttons and she is not afraid to say what she has in mind.

Now... saying that jef was the one, obviously the last hometown date with arie would be 1/ difficult because arie is at this point very in love 2/ a done deal (more than ready to move on).

The "what went wrong with arie", is only this. She told him that she made her choice. arie is F3 and therefore no fantasy date for him

remain sean... which does not know that she told jef is the only one. so he has to go for the fantasy date. Everyone is ready for the final play but since emily spoiled the deal the producers have now the only choice but let go sean before the FRC, trying to find some kind of dramatic exit to justify the fantasy or the lack of fantasy dates. sean being also in love with emily, it is easy to think that drama and mancry will be there too (after arie's exit the previous week).

so instead of trying to find a drama in the life of arie (ex girlfriend, cassie L, cassieH)... it was just very simple: emily fell in love with jef all along and she wanted to be a lady, no fantasy dates, no ambiguity.

they did not sent back sean because the producers wanted some extra taping to add in their drama storyline, same with arie.

that would explain the: emily was more than ready, Neil Lane had better bring his A-game!, emily did a first...

[Guest]

I like it... not sure if it's because it's possible (and it is) or because I would love for it to be that way, minus the heart break for Sean and Arie (not wishing anyone that!)

[Shelby]

I like it... not sure if it's because it's possible (and it is) or because I would love for it to be that way, minus the heart break for Sean and Arie (not wishing anyone that!)

yes. i think it kinda sucks that sean and arie were truly in love.

I think arie felt too confident because the kissing started very early on and emily liked him a lot. very easy to misinterpret the signs

sean. not sure yet. i need more to understand how he fell in love and why.

I honestly changed my mind about arie. I think he is a great guy that wanted like emily something more in his life when he came on the show. that he went for fame, adventure and fun to travel or be on a tv show like all of the others, of course. but like many guys they fell hard and did not expect it.

[just logic]

Yes, Shelby pointed it out more carefully but I've been saying for awhile now that maybe nothing went wrong with Arie's htd but everything went right on Jef's. People were all reading the tweets and thinking they referred to Arie's htd but the majority of them were sent right after Jef's htd and before Aries. I truly believe that NOTHING WENT WRONG. I also don't think Emily told Arie anything on htd about what went on during Jef's htd. She was probably told/asked by tptb to let it play itself out. But, I do think that she knew, at that point, who her F1 was and that the final rose was indeed 'ready too soon'.

[nd4reality]

Yes, Shelby pointed it out more carefully but I've been saying for awhile now that maybe nothing went wrong with Arie's htd but everything went right on Jef's. People were all reading the tweets and thinking they referred to Arie's htd but the majority of them were sent right after Jef's htd and before Aries. I truly believe that NOTHING WENT WRONG. I also don't think Emily told Arie anything on htd about what went on during Jef's htd. She was probably told/asked by tptb to let it play itself out. But, I do think that she knew, at that point, who her F1 was and that the final rose was indeed 'ready too soon'.

Could she have brought Ricky over ? That would explain the shocked tweets.

[Guest]

Yes, Shelby pointed it out more carefully but I've been saying for awhile now that maybe nothing went wrong with Arie's htd but everything went right on Jef's. People were all reading the tweets and thinking they referred to Arie's htd but the majority of them were sent right after Jef's htd and before Aries. I truly believe that NOTHING WENT WRONG. I also don't think Emily told Arie anything on htd about what went on during Jef's htd. She was probably told/asked by tptb to let it play itself out. But, I do think that she knew, at that point, who her F1 was and that the final rose was indeed 'ready too soon'.

Totally ITA. She cared for Arie, she cared for Sean, she fell in love with Jef.

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