Re: VO & PI's - Discussion - Bachelorette 8 - Thread #1

[LoveDovez]

I thought that was the entire point of the NASCAR date.

The show obviously doubts her if they put the Ar-ster on there. It's just a thought in terms of storyline. Maybe nothing happens with Arie at all that's negative! Maybe she cuts him simply because she's not in love with him whether he drives a car or not...

Ohhhh finally somebody says what I've been saying ever since the Arie thingy started. It isn't hard for me to believe that she just didn't care as much for Arie as she was Jef. Good to see somebody else can see that. : )

[yumyum1]

I thought that was the entire point of the NASCAR date.

The show obviously doubts her if they put the Ar-ster on there. It's just a thought in terms of storyline. Maybe nothing happens with Arie at all that's negative! Maybe she cuts him simply because she's not in love with him whether he drives a car or not...

Ohhhh finally somebody says what I've been saying ever since the Arie thingy started. It isn't hard for me to believe that she just didn't care as much for Arie as she was Jef. Good to see somebody else can see that. : )

^ I see it too. It's very possible that once Em began to know Arie more she didn't find his personality all that intriguing. Maybe he is more style over substance. I believe that there is a good chance that Em became more and more captivated with Jef's wit, charm and intellect, and simply preferred him over all the others.

[LoveDovez]

It makes the kind of storyline they love. If she IS completely over Ricky, there would be no mention of him at all. Ashley was apparently upset about an ex-boyfriend passing away right before she started on Brad's season, but we never heard "boo" about him either on his or her own season.

Em will never be over Ricky or losing him. That doesn't mean she isn't ready to move on. It is this show that keeps bringing him up everywhere. She said it point blank during her sit down with Chris before the M&G. She doesn't want to talk about it. She has moved on. For some reason they like to portray her as a victim. She isn't. Is it a sad story, yes, but it was eight years ago. JMO.

I agree, Em isn't the one that brings it up it's either Chris or the producers make sure it's talked about someway.. I would never expect Em to ever get over losing Ricky, but that don't mean that I don't believe she is ready to move on with a new life of her own, because she made that plain as day talking to Chris.,.

[LoveDovez]

I thought that was the entire point of the NASCAR date.

The show obviously doubts her if they put the Ar-ster on there. It's just a thought in terms of storyline. Maybe nothing happens with Arie at all that's negative! Maybe she cuts him simply because she's not in love with him whether he drives a car or not...

Ohhhh finally somebody says what I've been saying ever since the Arie thingy started. It isn't hard for me to believe that she just didn't care as much for Arie as she was Jef. Good to see somebody else can see that. : )

^ I see it too. It's very possible that once Em began to know Arie more she didn't find his personality all that intriguing. Maybe he is more style over substance. I believe that there is a good chance that Em became more and more captivated with Jef's wit, charm and intellect, and simply preferred him over all others.

True and she won't be the last woman that after dating a guy for a while loses interest or finds out that she didn't like him as well as she thought she did. I've done it before. If that never happens we would all probably have married the first guy we dated. ( oh the horror) LOL

[59hawaii]

Anybody know if this is foreshadowing?

Bobblehead Chris talks to the final three who succeed him, just after Tony arrives with the slipper. (Earlier Doug mentions that somebody will be lucky to have her.)

When I came into this, I told myself… (Sean shown)
This isn’t a competition (Chris speaking)
But… when I want something (Jef shown)
I’m going to do everything in my power (Chris speaking)
to make sure I get that. Feelings… (Arie shown)
may get hurt (Chris speaking)
down the road (Sean shown, who responds “It’s gonna be tough”)

The way "feelings" is edited, it appears that Arie is shown, but we see Chris say "hurt" suggesting either he or Emily is hurt by this experience more than Arie is... or Sean, who says the closing response. Arie is involved in "feelings" but we don't know how...

You folks will think I am half-baked in the brain here, but I can't escape this theory that Arie is on this show as some kind of therapist, getting her past Ricky. Brad made a casual dig to her in a recent interview about "dodging a bullet" and not wishing to watch this season. His season kept bringing up "the ghost" in the PIs... and it was sssssoooo blatantly obvious why there was a NASCAR date that season. She, on the other hand, keeps telling us she has moved on, even being OK with Arie as a race-car driver, but is her constant discussion about it really just a way of convincing herself? What exactly is the point of Emily and Arie watching the merry-go-round horses as if they are cars going around a track?

This brings us back to that discussion about Jef's voice-over heard in the promo, with a slow-moving car leaving a dark garage... symbolizing Emily pulling herself out of a dark place. There is little question that the "baggage" talk is not about her daughter at all, despite what Doug suggests to her... why else would she be shown dressed in black carrying a rose?

Jef is clearly discussing Ricki, not RickY, and replacing RickY with "myself". He ditched his skateboard before greeting her in the mansion, despite her wanting to still ride it, as if that skateboard represents some part of his life that he is now over with... and his job is to make her ditch something... or someone?

Great catch, JBF! I do think it may be foreshadowing since it's the only scene from episode 1 that features all F4. I interpret this scene to mean that Chris and Sean are not F1 and both will be hurt:

"(Feelings) ... may get hurt down the road" - camera zooms in on Chris
"It's gonna be tough" - camera zooms in on Sean

So that leaves Arie and Jef.

"But… when I want something" - camera zooms in on Jef
"(I’m going to do everything in my power) ... to make sure I get that" - camera zooms in on Arie

The way this scene has been edited, it appears that Jef wanted Em, but it's Arie who gets the girl.

I am confused, though, because there have been other blatant editing clues that conflict with this scene - VOs of "hopeless romantic" and "husband" (from promo) and the camera zooms in on Jef. These have been very heavy handed - whereas this scene with the F4 was very subtle. I would have never caught it unless you pointed it out.

I do wonder if this season will have a mix of overt and subtle editing clues scattered throughout and our job will be to weed out the red herrings. The trick is - which to keep and which to ignore.

Another example of a subtle clue is the one that everyone is debating on this thread - who is saying the "leap of faith" VO - Jef or Arie? Maybe it's not important who says it - it could have been both of them spliced together as some say the first half sounds like one and the latter half sounds like the other. Maybe the more important clue is what is being aired with the VO. There's a slow moving car leaving from a location in Prague. Is the significance of the scene is that it's a car - the racecar driver, Arie?

[NeonRose]

Anybody know if this is foreshadowing?

Bobblehead Chris talks to the final three who succeed him, just after Tony arrives with the slipper. (Earlier Doug mentions that somebody will be lucky to have her.)

When I came into this, I told myself… (Sean shown)
This isn’t a competition (Chris speaking)
But… when I want something (Jef shown)
I’m going to do everything in my power (Chris speaking)
to make sure I get that. Feelings… (Arie shown)
may get hurt (Chris speaking)
down the road (Sean shown, who responds “It’s gonna be tough”)

The way "feelings" is edited, it appears that Arie is shown, but we see Chris say "hurt" suggesting either he or Emily is hurt by this experience more than Arie is... or Sean, who says the closing response. Arie is involved in "feelings" but we don't know how...

You folks will think I am half-baked in the brain here, but I can't escape this theory that Arie is on this show as some kind of therapist, getting her past Ricky. Brad made a casual dig to her in a recent interview about "dodging a bullet" and not wishing to watch this season. His season kept bringing up "the ghost" in the PIs... and it was sssssoooo blatantly obvious why there was a NASCAR date that season. She, on the other hand, keeps telling us she has moved on, even being OK with Arie as a race-car driver, but is her constant discussion about it really just a way of convincing herself? What exactly is the point of Emily and Arie watching the merry-go-round horses as if they are cars going around a track?

This brings us back to that discussion about Jef's voice-over heard in the promo, with a slow-moving car leaving a dark garage... symbolizing Emily pulling herself out of a dark place. There is little question that the "baggage" talk is not about her daughter at all, despite what Doug suggests to her... why else would she be shown dressed in black carrying a rose?

Jef is clearly discussing Ricki, not RickY, and replacing RickY with "myself". He ditched his skateboard before greeting her in the mansion, despite her wanting to still ride it, as if that skateboard represents some part of his life that he is now over with... and his job is to make her ditch something... or someone?

Love your brainstorming!

[NeonRose]

Well Millsy is harping on that movie as the theme for this season for some reason. I can't find the M&G tweet (did someone else tweet about The Vow?) but I found this one from the premier --

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Robert Mills ‏@Millsy11374
It's the real life "The Vow"!! #Bachelorette
9:08 PM - 14 May 12

Well in the real story, I remember reading it was their faith that brought them back together, so is he referring to "faith". I don't know see what else this movie offers in comparison to this season. Guess we'll see.

Interesting, the movie is based losely (very losely) on a true story. In the movie, she is expected to choose a certain life and boyfriend/husband, but she is very different from the rest of her family and chooses a different life. After the accident she loses her memory and Channing Tatum tries desperately to help her remember.
In time, she finds her way again to him.
Very sad. I just wanted to hug Channing the entire movie.

how the heck does that relate to Jef?

Maybe all expect her to choose Arie(beeing that certain kind of boyfriend/husband),but she chooses Jef-copletely different life.
Then she is not sure,so she waits,until episode 5, and im the meantime he falls head over heels for her..waits until she finds way back to life and love..

[JBF]

It makes the kind of storyline they love. If she IS completely over Ricky, there would be no mention of him at all. Ashley was apparently upset about an ex-boyfriend passing away right before she started on Brad's season, but we never heard "boo" about him either on his or her own season.

Storylines don't have to have any basis in reality - it can be total fabrication. I would think they've already beaten the "is she over Ricky" storyline to death. Maybe a related storyline might be whether Em wants to have the life she never had with Ricky - it's probably unfair to compare Arie to Ricky as they may have nothing more in common than their shared occupation.

I am often reminded how frequently Ashley would fuss about Bentley, Bentley, Bentley all the while hopping all over JP, painting orphanage walls pink and getting all wet under umbrellas. When HE showed up in Hong Kong, all they talked about were bug bites. She also wiped his mouth after kissing him! And it was the second time... being done in episode #2 as well. It was as if both were saying "let's get this story over with... we've got places to go and things to do". Oh Ashley had some hang-ups alright, but Bentley was clearly the "smokescreen" and that "smokescreen" lifted mighty fast once she got her hands on that shaved head.

You know, NeonRose, Arie may, at least partly, be a "smokescreen" as well. Clearly Emily "digs" Arie and has no trouble making out with him, but the guys will probably THINK she is mostly into him because of the Ricky connection. Anybody also think it is odd that so many guys are weight-lifters this season as well, since that image matches better with the Brad "type"? Of course, Sean will be an easy bet with many viewers, since he fits in well as a replacement for Tony, Charlie and Ryan B.

In truth, she wants to ride the skateboard but Jefie is acting all shy and letting his "jock" bro-buddies chase her first. Going by that one ABC printed preview for Monday, they are starting to build Jef's storyline of "will he open up?" She won't give him a solo date until he makes the first move. However, it is hilarious how quickly she starts a-dumpin' them on dates AFTER she starts getting her Jefie alone time. Last year, you knew instantly which ones were JP's biggest competition because they got axed on dates rather than at rose ceremonies... and it was this big crying production number with William wanting to crawl into a hole and Ashley blubbering to Ryan Park "You are my perfect guy..."

[NeonRose]

I wondered why they mentioned Jef opening up! It kinda makes sense! O my,I really love your brainstorming!

[luvnunity]

I honestly think Millsy was talking about something that happened on the night on the M&G which explains why he tweeted about the Vow again when the M&G aired. I do not think it had anything to do with the story line for the season, but this is just my opinion.

But Fleiss tweeted the M&G tweet and Millsy the EP1 tweet. So they're both tweeting about The Vow for some reason.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Mike Fleiss ‏@fleissmeister
The real-life version of The Vow is unfolding right before our eyes...
12:48 AM - 14 Mar 12

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Robert Mills ‏@Millsy11374
It's the real life "The Vow"!! #Bachelorette
9:08 PM - 14 May 12

If they are drawing parallels between the movie's storyline and Em's storyline then Em picks a new life (Jef) over her old familiar life (Arie racecar driver). But this means that there was something going on from day one between Em and Jef for them to think that Em's storyline was going to play out exactly the same as the movie's. Was there a lot of Jef/Em footage from M&G that shows that connection on the cutting room floor? And, if so, why was Jef given an ep 5 1:1 date?

ETA: I just don't know if they are drawing parallels with the end or the start of the movie.

I'm feeling your thinking here. Emily has said multiple times that she is trying to find herself, that she's learning things about herself. She says the guys tell her she's nothing like they'd expected. Uncalum intimated that she is more real than most people expect. I think tptb expected themselves that she would go for a particular type and were like "Whaaaa?" when they saw her gravitate towards Jef. Remember in the "Vow", there was an old fiance that was a part of her old life (Arie/Ricky H., Sean/Brad W). In the movie, she was conflicted over the familiar and expected vs. who she thought herself to be on the inside. I will not at all be surprised if we see Em "acting different"-more edgy and she will be accused of changing for the guy, when perhaps Jef brings out what she has been afraid to express about herself.

ETA: JBF, I didn't read your last post. We're here. *fingers pointing at my eyes then yours*

[veg_out]

Anybody know if this is foreshadowing?

Bobblehead Chris talks to the final three who succeed him, just after Tony arrives with the slipper. (Earlier Doug mentions that somebody will be lucky to have her.)

When I came into this, I told myself… (Sean shown)
This isn’t a competition (Chris speaking)
But… when I want something (Jef shown)
I’m going to do everything in my power (Chris speaking)
to make sure I get that. Feelings… (Arie shown)
may get hurt (Chris speaking)
down the road (Sean shown, who responds “It’s gonna be tough”)

The way "feelings" is edited, it appears that Arie is shown, but we see Chris say "hurt" suggesting either he or Emily is hurt by this experience more than Arie is... or Sean, who says the closing response. Arie is involved in "feelings" but we don't know how...

You folks will think I am half-baked in the brain here, but I can't escape this theory that Arie is on this show as some kind of therapist, getting her past Ricky. Brad made a casual dig to her in a recent interview about "dodging a bullet" and not wishing to watch this season. His season kept bringing up "the ghost" in the PIs... and it was sssssoooo blatantly obvious why there was a NASCAR date that season. She, on the other hand, keeps telling us she has moved on, even being OK with Arie as a race-car driver, but is her constant discussion about it really just a way of convincing herself? What exactly is the point of Emily and Arie watching the merry-go-round horses as if they are cars going around a track?

This brings us back to that discussion about Jef's voice-over heard in the promo, with a slow-moving car leaving a dark garage... symbolizing Emily pulling herself out of a dark place. There is little question that the "baggage" talk is not about her daughter at all, despite what Doug suggests to her... why else would she be shown dressed in black carrying a rose?

Jef is clearly discussing Ricki, not RickY, and replacing RickY with "myself". He ditched his skateboard before greeting her in the mansion, despite her wanting to still ride it, as if that skateboard represents some part of his life that he is now over with... and his job is to make her ditch something... or someone?

Great catch, JBF! I do think it may be foreshadowing since it's the only scene from episode 1 that features all F4. I interpret this scene to mean that Chris and Sean are not F1 and both will be hurt:

"(Feelings) ... may get hurt down the road" - camera zooms in on Chris
"It's gonna be tough" - camera zooms in on Sean

So that leaves Arie and Jef.

"But… when I want something" - camera zooms in on Jef
"(I’m going to do everything in my power) ... to make sure I get that" - camera zooms in on Arie

The way this scene has been edited, it appears that Jef wanted Em, but it's Arie who gets the girl.

I am confused, though, because there have been other blatant editing clues that conflict with this scene - VOs of "hopeless romantic" and "husband" (from promo) and the camera zooms in on Jef. These have been very heavy handed - whereas this scene with the F4 was very subtle. I would have never caught it unless you pointed it out.

I do wonder if this season will have a mix of overt and subtle editing clues scattered throughout and our job will be to weed out the red herrings. The trick is - which to keep and which to ignore.

Another example of a subtle clue is the one that everyone is debating on this thread - who is saying the "leap of faith" VO - Jef or Arie? Maybe it's not important who says it - it could have been both of them spliced together as some say the first half sounds like one and the latter half sounds like the other. Maybe the more important clue is what is being aired with the VO. There's a slow moving car leaving from a location in Prague. Is the significance of the scene is that it's a car - the racecar driver, Arie?

Just want to say that I'm super glad that you're posting here, hawaii! Interesting thoughts.

[Mommyof2]

Anybody know if this is foreshadowing?

Bobblehead Chris talks to the final three who succeed him, just after Tony arrives with the slipper. (Earlier Doug mentions that somebody will be lucky to have her.)

When I came into this, I told myself… (Sean shown)
This isn’t a competition (Chris speaking)
But… when I want something (Jef shown)
I’m going to do everything in my power (Chris speaking)
to make sure I get that. Feelings… (Arie shown)
may get hurt (Chris speaking)
down the road (Sean shown, who responds “It’s gonna be tough”)

The way "feelings" is edited, it appears that Arie is shown, but we see Chris say "hurt" suggesting either he or Emily is hurt by this experience more than Arie is... or Sean, who says the closing response. Arie is involved in "feelings" but we don't know how...

You folks will think I am half-baked in the brain here, but I can't escape this theory that Arie is on this show as some kind of therapist, getting her past Ricky. Brad made a casual dig to her in a recent interview about "dodging a bullet" and not wishing to watch this season. His season kept bringing up "the ghost" in the PIs... and it was sssssoooo blatantly obvious why there was a NASCAR date that season. She, on the other hand, keeps telling us she has moved on, even being OK with Arie as a race-car driver, but is her constant discussion about it really just a way of convincing herself? What exactly is the point of Emily and Arie watching the merry-go-round horses as if they are cars going around a track?

This brings us back to that discussion about Jef's voice-over heard in the promo, with a slow-moving car leaving a dark garage... symbolizing Emily pulling herself out of a dark place. There is little question that the "baggage" talk is not about her daughter at all, despite what Doug suggests to her... why else would she be shown dressed in black carrying a rose?

Jef is clearly discussing Ricki, not RickY, and replacing RickY with "myself". He ditched his skateboard before greeting her in the mansion, despite her wanting to still ride it, as if that skateboard represents some part of his life that he is now over with... and his job is to make her ditch something... or someone?

Great catch, JBF! I do think it may be foreshadowing since it's the only scene from episode 1 that features all F4. I interpret this scene to mean that Chris and Sean are not F1 and both will be hurt:

"(Feelings) ... may get hurt down the road" - camera zooms in on Chris
"It's gonna be tough" - camera zooms in on Sean

So that leaves Arie and Jef.

"But… when I want something" - camera zooms in on Jef
"(I’m going to do everything in my power) ... to make sure I get that" - camera zooms in on Arie

The way this scene has been edited, it appears that Jef wanted Em, but it's Arie who gets the girl.

I am confused, though, because there have been other blatant editing clues that conflict with this scene - VOs of "hopeless romantic" and "husband" (from promo) and the camera zooms in on Jef. These have been very heavy handed - whereas this scene with the F4 was very subtle. I would have never caught it unless you pointed it out.

I do wonder if this season will have a mix of overt and subtle editing clues scattered throughout and our job will be to weed out the red herrings. The trick is - which to keep and which to ignore.

Another example of a subtle clue is the one that everyone is debating on this thread - who is saying the "leap of faith" VO - Jef or Arie? Maybe it's not important who says it - it could have been both of them spliced together as some say the first half sounds like one and the latter half sounds like the other. Maybe the more important clue is what is being aired with the VO. There's a slow moving car leaving from a location in Prague. Is the significance of the scene is that it's a car - the racecar driver, Arie?

I'm not putting too much into the edit this time because both Courtney and Lindzi were getting the F1 edit last season. Bloomers even said the edit was screwy.

I remember JBF felt strongly that Nicki was F1. We were all confused right up to the very end! Well played, MF, well played!

[Sponsored content]