Re: The Bachelorette 8 - Emily Maynard - Edit Thread - Discussion

[Guest]

JBF, awesome as usual. Thanks for you thoughts, I totally agree. Bravo

We laughed when Arie said he didn't feel threatened by ANY of the guys in the house and they showed Jef walking with Emily, immediately. Sneaky devils, TPTB.

[Guest]

Ryan talks in cliched platitudes... It's only a matter of time before he says "When the going gets tough, the tough get going"... the man seems incapable of an original thought...

[CarrieA]

Ryan talks in cliched platitudes... It's only a matter of time before he says "When the going gets tough, the tough get going"... the man seems incapable of an original thought...

Seriously! It felt like he was reading one liners from a teleprompter the whole episode. The whole thing just screamed fake.

[Love_Me]

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[JBF]

Ryan talks in cliched platitudes... It's only a matter of time before he says "When the going gets tough, the tough get going"... the man seems incapable of an original thought...

Seriously! It felt like he was reading one liners from a teleprompter the whole episode. The whole thing just screamed fake.

Quite amusing was the fact that Jimmy Kimmel compiled clips of Ryan from that episode with no manipulated editing at all and the audience was still laughing. All he joked about at the end was Ryan and Mike looking like they were digging each other sitting together.

This reminds me of Arie's early comment about the football brobuddy business (paraphrasing) needing to end. Kalon said something similar two episodes back about the guys enjoying being around each other more than Emily. Reality Steve added to this running multi-bromance gag (used with every Bachelorette season it seems) commenting on the muscle measurement "uncensored" abc.com clip. He was banking on Arie, Doug and Sean measuring other body parts as well. (Then again, Steve just loves venturing "Down Under" in his blogs. Little Steve must constantly be on Big Steve's mind at all times. Bet he is so eager to share with us Little Steve's reaction to Emily's tight bikini shots this episode... not that we really care to know.)

There were a few other little things, that may or may not be important, I forgot to add to the previous post...

A lot of commentary here on Jef's wardrobe choice before the rose ceremony. Emily mentioned going into public in her pajamas and I got all kinds of quirky images of these two post-show.

That mother hen brooding over her chicks with Emily and Ricki watching was, in my opinion, an overkill of this season's themes. Travis' egg was smashed last week so we wouldn't have any more guard-and-protect talk, but a little of this symbolism goes a long, long way.

Love_Me, I always enjoy those monologues the lead gives as he/she looks at the photos and, unfortunately, this is only the first one we have seen this season. Re-watching that scene didn't reveal anything of importance since Kalon's photo was the only one she picked up, setting up his abrupt departure before next episode's rose ceremony.

One editing trick in the promos that has me confused a bit... Both Arie and Chris are featured prominently, along with Alejandro, during Emily's calling out moment. Like the promo in episode #1, Chris is holding his face during the "Do you have anything to say for yourself?" / "Not really" scene. I have the feeling there are two seperate storylines being covered here. On the surface, we have Big Bad Kalon who may or may not have used the word "baggage" and Doug playing the Tattler. Since both Arie and Chris consider Doug a loose canon, it is quite possible Doug may get his facts jumbled when he meets up with Emily... or maybe not.

Then we have this other storyline that begins with Doug versus Chris and morphs into Chris versus Chris. He over-reacts to the "too young" call-out, making Doug laugh. Yes, Doug is a psycho, but Chris is clearly more bothered by him than those he claims won't speak up to him like he does. Chris actually thinks Doug is sabotaging his chances, but is he really? Doug's fights with him are in front of other guys, NOT Emily.

The edit of Chris The Bobblehead is getting most interesting. That dancing montage over the end credits may very well be our final moments of his "complications-free" relationship with Emily. That "Emily!" scream at the start of episode #1's promo is some sort of little-too-late "dig" to Chris not telling Emily something she is supposed to know about him that causes him to lose out.

Another thing I found interesting in the promo was Sean declaring his love for Emily in a public place in front of others followed by Ryan hamming it up in the Romeo & Juliet play. Both are the extroverts, making us most curious to find out what quiet stuff is happening on Jef's date.

[shannonmac]

OK… re-watched episode #4 a second time and freeze-framed a bit, going back over some scenes and copying key lines.

Just a little overview… with much to be added later.

My favorite line of this show…

Arie rubbing Emily's leg and saying "Oh my gosh. You're making me feel so good right now."

My favorite edits of the episode:

When Arie says “I don’t feel threatened at all by anybody in the house”, we get a cut into Jef walking with Emily just before his “master of your dates” comment.

When Ryan says “I feel pretty good about my chances here. I know she’s attracted to me and I’m attracted to her”, we see Emily plopping right next to Jef as he starts rubbing her shoulder.

Both Arie and Ryan are the ones commenting on Jef getting the rose. Arie is surprised since he felt he had the best connection with her, while Ryan judges it just as a “safe move”.

Intriguingly, despite no kissing, we get fireworks right after Jef’s “beginning to fall for Emily” comment as that was a big deal in itself.

The Doug & Ryan Show

Now Doug gets the “perfect like Brad” logo by Emily just like Ryan previously. Both guys are discussed as “conflict” guys with Chris Harrison.

Doug fussed about kissing Emily, but Emily only fussed in PI and with Chris Harrison about Jef not kissing her. It is possible that the following line by Doug was probably substituting for a much needed PI from Jef: “I move pretty slow. I don’t ever make the first move… ever.”

It is funny that Doug mentions his grandfather in a PI explaining why he didn’t just kiss her. His later tit-for-tat with Chris about age 25 versus 33 is important for a reason since age is a big hoopty-doo to him. After we see Sean kiss Emily in a style closely resembling Ben and Ashley’s kiss a year ago in Phuket (another episode #4 with the exact same music accompanying), Doug tells Ryan that the younger guys think too much about the kissing part.

Alas… when Doug mentions being on Cloud 9 at first, he is a bit too focused on the Austin rather than Emily part… i.e. “I’m A Good Dad” part of this relationship.

Ryan is definitely a piece of work and the cameramen love him. Calling Emily a trophy wife sounded a bit rehearsed, but he was quite spontaneous with his “God designed you to be a beautiful woman, so be a beautiful woman” after Emily admitted she doesn’t do the gym thing. He clearly thinks he is a Bachelor hopeful. His motto: “The enemy of great is good. Just being good is not enough.”

Not much Kalon with these two hogging up center arena. In a move resembling episode #1 when Kalon was interrupted by Sean, Ryan gets interrupted by Arie… and everybody comments.

Other odds and ends of interest

Back on Brad’s season, Emily had a deep conversation with him by the pool after their NASCAR race group date. While Brad was expecting some romance, she was very quick to ask him “Shall we go back now?” Fast-forward to this group date: Jef repeated Emily’s line while she was banking on him kissing her. Smooth!

Of course, she brings that up with Chris Harrison. She also mentions them being together on the beach twice… and nothing happening. Ashley told Harrison in Fiji that her relationship with JP progressed on beaches. In her episode #4, there was “magical” kissing under the umbrella at the Phuket one… in the rain. (Despite limited rain this episode mostly at the end, they sure enjoy putting thunderstorms on the soundtrack… at least twice.)

Poor Nate… he, Michael and Charlie all cried in their departures. (Facially when he cries, Nate looks a bit like William Holman in Ashley’s season even though John “Wolfe” was the one sporting one of Willie’s shirts on that date. You feel sorry for the kid.) The tragedy with Nate is that he didn’t discuss his past relationship-gone-bad on screen, just his family and brother. Emily thought he was too (*drink*) “young” and inexperienced because of it. Nate is certainly a still-waters-run-deep guy and, like Joe who was dumped in an episode #2 date, Nate eerily parallels Jef in a way. Jef only agreed to open up more on the beach… later.

I love your editing breakdown! It puts things in such a completely different perspective.
Thank you!!!

[missmilano]

Ryan talks in cliched platitudes... It's only a matter of time before he says "When the going gets tough, the tough get going"... the man seems incapable of an original thought...

Seriously! It felt like he was reading one liners from a teleprompter the whole episode. The whole thing just screamed fake.

Quite amusing was the fact that Jimmy Kimmel compiled clips of Ryan from that episode with no manipulated editing at all and the audience was still laughing. All he joked about at the end was Ryan and Mike looking like they were digging each other sitting together.

This reminds me of Arie's early comment about the football brobuddy business (paraphrasing) needing to end. Kalon said something similar two episodes back about the guys enjoying being around each other more than Emily. Reality Steve added to this running multi-bromance gag (used with every Bachelorette season it seems) commenting on the muscle measurement "uncensored" abc.com clip. He was banking on Arie, Doug and Sean measuring other body parts as well. (Then again, Steve just loves venturing "Down Under" in his blogs. Little Steve must constantly be on Big Steve's mind at all times. Bet he is so eager to share with us Little Steve's reaction to Emily's tight bikini shots this episode... not that we really care to know.)

There were a few other little things, that may or may not be important, I forgot to add to the previous post...

A lot of commentary here on Jef's wardrobe choice before the rose ceremony. Emily mentioned going into public in her pajamas and I got all kinds of quirky images of these two post-show.

That mother hen brooding over her chicks with Emily and Ricki watching was, in my opinion, an overkill of this season's themes. Travis' egg was smashed last week so we wouldn't have any more guard-and-protect talk, but a little of this symbolism goes a long, long way.

Love_Me, I always enjoy those monologues the lead gives as he/she looks at the photos and, unfortunately, this is only the first one we have seen this season. Re-watching that scene didn't reveal anything of importance since Kalon's photo was the only one she picked up, setting up his abrupt departure before next episode's rose ceremony.

One editing trick in the promos that has me confused a bit... Both Arie and Chris are featured prominently, along with Alejandro, during Emily's calling out moment. Like the promo in episode #1, Chris is holding his face during the "Do you have anything to say for yourself?" / "Not really" scene. I have the feeling there are two seperate storylines being covered here. On the surface, we have Big Bad Kalon who may or may not have used the word "baggage" and Doug playing the Tattler. Since both Arie and Chris consider Doug a loose canon, it is quite possible Doug may get his facts jumbled when he meets up with Emily... or maybe not.

Then we have this other storyline that begins with Doug versus Chris and morphs into Chris versus Chris. He over-reacts to the "too young" call-out, making Doug laugh. Yes, Doug is a psycho, but Chris is clearly more bothered by him than those he claims won't speak up to him like he does. Chris actually thinks Doug is sabotaging his chances, but is he really? Doug's fights with him are in front of other guys, NOT Emily.

The edit of Chris The Bobblehead is getting most interesting. That dancing montage over the end credits may very well be our final moments of his "complications-free" relationship with Emily. That "Emily!" scream at the start of episode #1's promo is some sort of little-too-late "dig" to Chris not telling Emily something she is supposed to know about him that causes him to lose out.

Another thing I found interesting in the promo was Sean declaring his love for Emily in a public place in front of others followed by Ryan hamming it up in the Romeo & Juliet play. Both are the extroverts, making us most curious to find out what quiet stuff is happening on Jef's date.

JBF, love your posts as always. Per the bolded, it appears to me that Jef is getting the most private dates with less interaction/observation with the "public". Arie's date at Dollywood was private, but let's be honest, the defining moment was on Emily meeting her idol Dolly Parton. Also, I think the only preseason pictures we had of Jef came from ABC with nothing from tabloids, twitter, etc.

[Fleurdesel]

Merci JBF, your analysis are so valuable! I think they are a must read if you even want to speculate on anything. EDIT and Body language are "Key" to what we're seeing.

[JBF]

Hey! I may be reading some of this stuff incorrectly, so don't be shy to offer differing viewpoints here.

My quirky criteria lately for "digging deep" into The Edit... LOL!

1.) Lop & chops in edits are "hot spots" for me…
For example: any time people disappear and reappear in group settings or when a conversation has a “jump-cut”. All of this is intended to hide something from casual viewers. Quite often a frontrunner is missing during a major spat going on (unless your name is Courtney and you are involved in every spat). Case in point: Jef is gone in episode #2 during Kalon and Stevie's tit-for-tat, but seen seated by Kalon in an edited out of sequence shot seen a split-second before the fight. Lots of lop & chop in Ashley's Phuket group date last year (episode #4) hiding some of her chemistry with JP.

2.) Body language...
Although we all see different things, you can tell when something is done “consciously” or not. You can tell when somebody may be aware of the camera and "acting" a little. There is a classic scene in episode #2 of Ashley's when she stops line-dancing with Nick and promptly lunges into an interrupting William's arms without hesitation or any awareness of the camera. That and several other key scenes convinced me who was JP's biggest rival pre-comedy roast... not Ben, Bentley or Ryan, although she really liked the latter a lot on a Best Friend level.

3.) Rose ceremony positions (Bloomer’s specialty)...
It appears that the lead’s favorites are usually (but not always)
a.) at one end of the front row
b.) next to the have-roses-already people or…
c.) one/two people inward. That is, when they are roseless at the line-up. I think the reasoning is so that his/her rivals have a harder time "reading" the interaction between him/her and the lead.

Those leaving soon tend to be in the center of either front or back row, so that somebody on either side can hug them goodbye.

4.) Rose delivery order is a minor detail not everybody takes seriously, but you generally are not called last (before the hometown rose ceremony at least) if you are one of the lead’s top two.

5.) The group photo at Meet & Greet is another minor detail, but sometimes important. In Bachelorette (not Bachelor) seasons, only two F1s were NOT in the front row and one of these, Ryan Sutter, was still closely behind Trista.

6.) Timing the PIs...
At least three of Ashley’s discussing Bentley feature the same hair-perm and props in the background (but she’s wearing different outfits) as PIs discussing Ben and JP meeting her family in Vomo resort, Fiji. This was loooooong after she said goodbye to Bentley in Hong Kong and Fleiss needed her to add more to Bentley’s “Story”.
Likewise, Chris' PI after Jef gets a group rose in episode #2 was obviously NOT done that week but sometime later... and he makes no mention of Jef, just "him". The editors want us to THINK Chris sees "nothing" between Jef and Emily. Whether that is true or not can be debated.

7.) Voice-over “bytes” matching headshots...
These are most revealing in a behind-the-scenes way. They don’t necessary indicate a person’s status in regards to “when” they leave or if they are final one, but they show how he or she is viewed by others, especially the lead. Since casual viewers ignore all but the rose ceremony ones (and only use them to determine who might be leaving roseless), they are intended for the contestants watching and often have more secret “clues” to the relationship in question. Sometimes they are also a “foreshadowing” indicator, as may be the case during Chris’ monologue over shots of himself, Arie, Sean and Jef in episode #1 right after Tony arrives by limo.

8.) Behavior at Men Tell All and Women Tell All. Remember how William refused to look at his scenes during Ashley's MTA, even covering his ears?

9.) Interviews by dumpees are sometimes very telling.

Any more to add? Bet some of you can add another nine here.

I do NOT go by the timing or the number of solo dates since production manipulates that a lot for their Story. Obviously it is best to have your first in episode #3 or #4, but let's suppose the lead was quick in his/her decision and Fleiss still wants a show to produce with SOME suspense. It makes sense to delay that all-important solo date a bit, but just include The Favorite Pick in all of the group dates beforehand.

[Guest]

[quote="missmilano"]

Ryan talks in cliched platitudes... It's only a matter of time before he says "When the going gets tough, the tough get going"... the man seems incapable of an original thought...

Seriously! It felt like he was reading one liners from a teleprompter the whole episode. The whole thing just screamed fake.

Quite amusing was the fact that Jimmy Kimmel compiled clips of Ryan from that episode with no manipulated editing at all and the audience was still laughing. All he joked about at the end was Ryan and Mike looking like they were digging each other sitting together.

This reminds me of Arie's early comment about the football brobuddy business (paraphrasing) needing to end. Kalon said something similar two episodes back about the guys enjoying being around each other more than Emily. Reality Steve added to this running multi-bromance gag (used with every Bachelorette season it seems) commenting on the muscle measurement "uncensored" abc.com clip. He was banking on Arie, Doug and Sean measuring other body parts as well. (Then again, Steve just loves venturing "Down Under" in his blogs. Little Steve must constantly be on Big Steve's mind at all times. Bet he is so eager to share with us Little Steve's reaction to Emily's tight bikini shots this episode... not that we really care to know.)

There were a few other little things, that may or may not be important, I forgot to add to the previous post...

A lot of commentary here on Jef's wardrobe choice before the rose ceremony. Emily mentioned going into public in her pajamas and I got all kinds of quirky images of these two post-show.

That mother hen brooding over her chicks with Emily and Ricki watching was, in my opinion, an overkill of this season's themes. Travis' egg was smashed last week so we wouldn't have any more guard-and-protect talk, but a little of this symbolism goes a long, long way.

Love_Me, I always enjoy those monologues the lead gives as he/she looks at the photos and, unfortunately, this is only the first one we have seen this season. Re-watching that scene didn't reveal anything of importance since Kalon's photo was the only one she picked up, setting up his abrupt departure before next episode's rose ceremony.

One editing trick in the promos that has me confused a bit... Both Arie and Chris are featured prominently, along with Alejandro, during Emily's calling out moment. Like the promo in episode #1, Chris is holding his face during the "Do you have anything to say for yourself?" / "Not really" scene. I have the feeling there are two seperate storylines being covered here. On the surface, we have Big Bad Kalon who may or may not have used the word "baggage" and Doug playing the Tattler. Since both Arie and Chris consider Doug a loose canon, it is quite possible Doug may get his facts jumbled when he meets up with Emily... or maybe not.

Then we have this other storyline that begins with Doug versus Chris and morphs into Chris versus Chris. He over-reacts to the "too young" call-out, making Doug laugh. Yes, Doug is a psycho, but Chris is clearly more bothered by him than those he claims won't speak up to him like he does. Chris actually thinks Doug is sabotaging his chances, but is he really? Doug's fights with him are in front of other guys, NOT Emily.

The edit of Chris The Bobblehead is getting most interesting. That dancing montage over the end credits may very well be our final moments of his "complications-free" relationship with Emily. That "Emily!" scream at the start of episode #1's promo is some sort of little-too-late "dig" to Chris not telling Emily something she is supposed to know about him that causes him to lose out.

Another thing I found interesting in the promo was Sean declaring his love for Emily in a public place in front of others followed by Ryan hamming it up in the Romeo & Juliet play. Both are the extroverts, making us most curious to find out what quiet stuff is happening on Jef's date.

JBF, love your posts as always. Per the bolded, it appears to me that Jef is getting the most private dates with less interaction/observation with the "public". Arie's date at Dollywood was private, but let's be honest, the defining moment was on Emily meeting her idol Dolly Parton. Also, I think the only preseason pictures we had of Jef came from ABC with nothing from tabloids, twitter, etc.[/quote]

Well, he surely seems to have been catching up post season... So many twitters, instagrams etc... Must be loving the attention after all. :shocked!:

[Guest]

I was unspoiled the first episode and thought Jef was on Emily's radar from his intro and one on one time with Emily (Final ones usually have intros and their one on one conversations are always shown). Plus, he just looked cute with Emily, so I picked him as the Final one. All of my friends except a couple are still unspoiled, and they think Jef is a frontrunner, so...

I was unspoiled the first four episodes and I thought Jef was a frontrunner from the start and could see the arc moving toward him the fourth episode.

[Guest]

Hey! I may be reading some of this stuff incorrectly, so don't be shy to offer differing viewpoints here.

My quirky criteria lately for "digging deep" into The Edit... LOL!

1.) Lop & chops in edits are "hot spots" for me…
For example: any time people disappear and reappear in group settings or when a conversation has a “jump-cut”. All of this is intended to hide something from casual viewers. Quite often a frontrunner is missing during a major spat going on (unless your name is Courtney and you are involved in every spat). Case in point: Jef is gone in episode #2 during Kalon and Stevie's tit-for-tat, but seen seated by Kalon in an edited out of sequence shot seen a split-second before the fight. Lots of lop & chop in Ashley's Phuket group date last year (episode #4) hiding some of her chemistry with JP.

2.) Body language...
Although we all see different things, you can tell when something is done “consciously” or not. You can tell when somebody may be aware of the camera and "acting" a little. There is a classic scene in episode #2 of Ashley's when she stops line-dancing with Nick and promptly lunges into an interrupting William's arms without hesitation or any awareness of the camera. That and several other key scenes convinced me who was JP's biggest rival pre-comedy roast... not Ben, Bentley or Ryan, although she really liked the latter a lot on a Best Friend level.

3.) Rose ceremony positions (Bloomer’s specialty)...
It appears that the lead’s favorites are usually (but not always)
a.) at one end of the front row
b.) next to the have-roses-already people or…
c.) one/two people inward. That is, when they are roseless at the line-up. I think the reasoning is so that his/her rivals have a harder time "reading" the interaction between him/her and the lead.

Those leaving soon tend to be in the center of either front or back row, so that somebody on either side can hug them goodbye.

4.) Rose delivery order is a minor detail not everybody takes seriously, but you generally are not called last (before the hometown rose ceremony at least) if you are one of the lead’s top two.

5.) The group photo at Meet & Greet is another minor detail, but sometimes important. In Bachelorette (not Bachelor) seasons, only two F1s were NOT in the front row and one of these, Ryan Sutter, was still closely behind Trista.

6.) Timing the PIs...
At least three of Ashley’s discussing Bentley feature the same hair-perm and props in the background (but she’s wearing different outfits) as PIs discussing Ben and JP meeting her family in Vomo resort, Fiji. This was loooooong after she said goodbye to Bentley in Hong Kong and Fleiss needed her to add more to Bentley’s “Story”.
Likewise, Chris' PI after Jef gets a group rose in episode #2 was obviously NOT done that week but sometime later... and he makes no mention of Jef, just "him". The editors want us to THINK Chris sees "nothing" between Jef and Emily. Whether that is true or not can be debated.

7.) Voice-over “bytes” matching headshots...
These are most revealing in a behind-the-scenes way. They don’t necessary indicate a person’s status in regards to “when” they leave or if they are final one, but they show how he or she is viewed by others, especially the lead. Since casual viewers ignore all but the rose ceremony ones (and only use them to determine who might be leaving roseless), they are intended for the contestants watching and often have more secret “clues” to the relationship in question. Sometimes they are also a “foreshadowing” indicator, as may be the case during Chris’ monologue over shots of himself, Arie, Sean and Jef in episode #1 right after Tony arrives by limo.

8.) Behavior at Men Tell All and Women Tell All. Remember how William refused to look at his scenes during Ashley's MTA, even covering his ears?

9.) Interviews by dumpees are sometimes very telling.

Any more to add? Bet some of you can add another nine here.

I do NOT go by the timing or the number of solo dates since production manipulates that a lot for their Story. Obviously it is best to have your first in episode #3 or #4, but let's suppose the lead was quick in his/her decision and Fleiss still wants a show to produce with SOME suspense. It makes sense to delay that all-important solo date a bit, but just include The Favorite Pick in all of the group dates beforehand.

That right there is exactly what I think the producers have been doing. Exactly. Emily and Jef don't need the 1:1 any sooner in their relationship, and the production doesn't want it any sooner because it'll make things much more obvious and they still need to create a story with intrigue.

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