Bachelor 26 - Clayton Echard - Mar 14 - 15 - Finale - ATFR - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Sprite wrote:

2observe wrote:IMO, this Season had the most realistic ending ever; and, I'm so glad that Susie did it on her terms and not the producers terms.  Maybe now TPTB can see that being more real can captivate an audience and increase their ratings.

I totally disagree. This was the most manipulated season ever. They screwed with all the contestants and the gullible lead. I know they do this every season, but this went above and beyond. It was horrible to watch people being tortured, embarrassed and horribly hurt...all in the name of ratings. If this is what it takes to get ratings...and we know they like to outdo themselves every year...then I am afraid what they will do to Rachel and Gabby. Plus the ratings were still not that great, so it was pretty much in vain.

I m thinking the same thing " what will they do to Rachel and Gabby" That remains to be seen but the more I think of it , their majority of viewers are women and if they mess with them too much there might be real ratings back lash, so it's possible they will be a bit more conscious of how they edit and make them look. jmo[/quote]

GuardianAngel wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'm still peeved at RS from 15 yrs ago, so I don't pay attention to him.

The other thing that bugs me about this season, is Clayton took a lot of flack, maybe rightly so however many previous leads didn't do much different that what he did. Gabby already started changing her opinions last night and she can now see where he was coming from.

Too late, they were successful in pitting Clayton against the contestants.

I hope now Susie and Clayton can just enjoy their relationship and disregard any negativity. I looked quickly at some of the replies in their IG and they seemed to be very positive and happy. at Nick's reply and the push back he's getting.

Although the sex with the other two women was problematic, I think Clayton's biggest problem was telling all three women that he loved them. As Gabby said, if you say, "I love you" to someone, that comes with some obligations, the chief one of which is that you will have that person's back. Ben Higgins got into trouble with that as well. And IMO, after telling Gabby and Rachel to their faces that he had sex with both of them, (and that he had told them both he loved them,) convincing them to stay to meet his family, and subsequently sending them both home in short order, was just cruel. Clayton was so focused on his own needs and desires that he could not appear to summon any empathy for the women that he claimed to "love."

So if I had one thing to say to Susie, it would be to reflect very carefully on how Clayton treated these two other women, because he could very easily treat her in the same manner.

Amethyst wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'm still peeved at RS from 15 yrs ago, so I don't pay attention to him.

The other thing that bugs me about this season, is Clayton took a lot of flack, maybe rightly so however many previous leads didn't do much different that what he did. Gabby already started changing her opinions last night and she can now see where he was coming from.

Too late, they were successful in pitting Clayton against the contestants.

I hope now Susie and Clayton can just enjoy their relationship and disregard any negativity. I looked quickly at some of the replies in their IG and they seemed to be very positive and happy. at Nick's reply and the push back he's getting.

Although the sex with the other two women was problematic, I think Clayton's biggest problem was telling all three women that he loved them. As Gabby said, if you say, "I love you" to someone, that comes with some obligations, the chief one of which is that you will have that person's back. Ben Higgins got into trouble with that as well. And IMO, after telling Gabby and Rachel to their faces that he had sex with both of them, (and that he had told them both he loved them,) convincing them to stay to meet his family, and subsequently sending them both home in short order, was just cruel. Clayton was so focused on his own needs and desires that he could not appear to summon any empathy for the women that he claimed to "love."

So if I had one thing to say to Susie, it would be to reflect very carefully on how Clayton treated these two other women, because he could very easily treat her in the same manner.

Producer driven. Look what they put Aire through, and Hannah ,and Peter , Colton, what about the embarrement they put on Andi and Josh. What about Ben telling 2 girls he loved them and so many others , They made Jason pick the F2 ( Melissa) just to have his original F1 Molly get back together with him at ATFR. They are EVIL . Whatever is in the contracts they sign its obvious they have to do certain things that will create the Drama that they want for the show and it's at anyone's expense they don't care how they make anyone look . The bottom line is that the lead eventually in some way somehow hopefully can end up with the one they actually wanted. jmo

I don't think it makes a difference to TPTB if the lead is the ette or TB.

I just watched a vid in the SM thread, where Gabby said they learned from other people's mistakes, and that will make them more successful learning and knowing what not to do. Very confident and naïve at the same time.

The way I see it, is Gabby knows what to say. Gabby doesn't know what they have in store for them. Don't tell me she isn't going to fall for two guys and will have clarity on the day of the FRC.

Rachel is the one I'm sort of concerned about. She gets easily emotional and not sure she can handle what's going to be thrown their way. Does she think she can eliminate the villain before F6? Do they think they'll know exactly what's going on unlike Clayton who wasn't aware of what Shanee was doing.

GuardianAngel wrote:I don't think it makes a difference to TPTB if the lead is the ette or TB.

I just watched a vid in the SM thread, where Gabby said they learned from other people's mistakes, and that will make them more successful learning and knowing what not to do. Very confident and naïve at the same time.

The way I see it, is Gabby knows what to say. Gabby doesn't know what they have in store for them. Don't tell me she isn't going to fall for two guys and will have clarity on the day of the FRC.

Rachel is the one I'm sort of concerned about. She gets easily emotional and not sure she can handle what's going to be thrown their way. Does she think she can eliminate the villain before F6? Do they think they'll know exactly what's going on unlike Clayton who wasn't aware of what Shanee was doing.

I think they are both in for a rude awakening ., I don't think they have any idea what TPTB are capable of. I hope they will be the exception but I highly doubt it. Like I mentioned in another post, they screwed over just about every lead in some way or another. (They refrained from telling Hannah B about Jed having a GF at home too or maybe her decision would've been different ). jmo

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Your post about Rachel is what I'm feeling. She could become very attached to someone who shows interest in her and think it is love. I don't wish any ill will on her but ...

Look what they did to the sweatheart ette JoJo showing her tabloids of Jordan rumours, or their first Black lead not showing a love story having a racist contestant and editing the F1 as the bad guy. I'm sure there are many more examples.

I can see whatever they say from here on out, "learn from others mistakes" will end up biting them in the butt.

If TPTB want a successful season with having the first dual 'etttes I think they should ensure no trickery is involved like keeping the worst of the worst until later in the season for drama. They've done it many times in the past.

GuardianAngel wrote:I don't think it makes a difference to TPTB if the lead is the ette or TB.

I just watched a vid in the SM thread, where Gabby said they learned from other people's mistakes, and that will make them more successful learning and knowing what not to do. Very confident and naïve at the same time.

The way I see it, is Gabby knows what to say. Gabby doesn't know what they have in store for them. Don't tell me she isn't going to fall for two guys and will have clarity on the day of the FRC.

Rachel is the one I'm sort of concerned about. She gets easily emotional and not sure she can handle what's going to be thrown their way. Does she think she can eliminate the villain before F6? Do they think they'll know exactly what's going on unlike Clayton who wasn't aware of what Shanee was doing.

Exactly right. Every lead has said you don't know what this show/journey is like until your in it. They will find out soon enough and maybe, they'll see some of what Clayton did , why he did it and understand to some extent the position he was in . Heck I thought Arie's was the worst and he ended up with who he originally wanted and the rest is history. So it can work for Suzie and Clayton too and I hope it does. On another note, I do like Jesse but im sorry he is another company man just like Chris Harrison was, they will tell you they don't know how it ended blah blah but they know everything , they make the lead think they are on their side and care about them and he's their sounding board but he really isn't and can't be because he'll lose his job, his loyalty is to TPTB period .jmo

I'm going to give Rachel a break because the viewers largely saw the connection she and Clayton had so I don't think she's just going to fall for the next guy that's nice to her. I also don't blame her for being emotional. I'm not a big cryer but I've never been in that situation.

One thing I like about Clayton is that he's not shirking the hard questions in the interviews I've listened to. He tells why he did some of the things he did and accepts that they weren't always the best decisions. He's gotten a lot of flack from the start because hardly anyone seemed to want him as lead (I certainly didn't). He's not alone because all of the leads have criticism throughout the seasons but it's got to be especially tough when it's something you have no control over. One thing you can say about this season after the disastrous ending is that all the f3 got something out of it, Susie is with the guy she loves and Gabby & Rachel get a chance to find love on their own show. I wish them all the best.

albean99 wrote:snipped

One thing I like about Clayton is that he's not shirking the hard questions in the interviews I've listened to. He tells why he did some of the things he did and accepts that they weren't always the best decisions. snipped

This is so true. I find him to be very genuine, and taking responsibility all the time for the hurt he caused.