Bachelorette 17 - Katie Thurston - Media SM - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I think it is probably a combination of things. Greg being insecure, being housed with the competition who he sees returning from and overnight with the most sex positive lead ever and his mind is jumping all over the place. She may be giving him reassurance and he is too blind to see because of his insecurities and producers undermining his trust in her and playing mind games with him or he isn't that into her and this is his excuse.

There is probably enough blame to go around, but it is hard to know how it all goes down until we see it...and even then, they edit things to push their storyline...truth be damned.

alwayscooking wrote:I would think that if Greg was really Katie's F1 at that point, she would have been able to give Greg the reassurance he needed.  Maybe what she was giving Greg wasn't enough for him because she still had doubts?  I know past leads have said they've been able to give hints to their F1.  Ashley told JP she loved him and she said it first.   If Greg's FSD is first, and if he was really Katie's F1 at that time, I'm sure she could have said, I love you, but I have to get through this till the end.  If Greg's FSD is after Blake's then I would think Greg would want to have at least that alone time to talk to Katie and see where she's at.  Greg knows she's the lead and has to follow this through so with either scenario Greg isn't being very understanding for what Katie is obligated to do.  

RS said this breakup is messy. It's been speculated here that Katie might be a bit of a hot head, so, could Katie's reaction with Greg during their breakup  be more about someone demanding something from her that she can't give?  Or maybe Greg wasn't as into Katie as what he thought, wanted out, and it was easier to try and blame her?  I don't know, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out, and I'm just throwing some options out there.  But I do think if Greg really loved her, he would have been more understanding of what she had to do, and would have let her follow through with her commitments.

In episode 5 this is some of Greg and Katie conversation on the group date.
Greg: it was tough for me the other night and I think you could tell, I'm like completely crazy about you

Katie: I was scared that you was gonna want to leave

Greg: I'm gonna tough it out for you, as hard as it is, trust me it is so hard, you are so worth it, you like are, I just know in my heart that you are and I feel it

Katie: I'm glad, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted because truthfully one of my biggest fears is of you wanting to leave

Greg: nah, I would never
Katie: promise
Greg: uh-huh
Greg in an ITM says Katie has to pick me up a lot, so if I don't get that rose tonight it will be heartbreaking because I am falling in love with Katie. After all that she turns around and give the rose to Hunter. The look on his face was painful. If she would have just given him the rose that would have probably secured things for him. In this situation when you are telling all the other guys stuff, you got to do or show your F1 something special so that they won't think their just like the rest (like what Brad did for Emily).

jen689 wrote:

pbmax wrote:... I'm starting to believe Greg comes back or never leaves....

There's a poster on reddit who says Greg doesn't leave. Katie says in the previews that her person "may have left" and she doesn't know how she is going to move forward. The poster says Desiree helps Katie "complete her journey"

The poster says this season is very similar to Kaitlyn's and calls Greg Shawn 2.0 and Blake Nick 2.0. In spite of their "miscommunication" as Katie calls it the poster says Shawn 2.0 (Greg) gets the final rose.

The poster said Greg got the first one on one date before it was announced so he/she seems to have some insider information

I was watching the previews again and watching the fight clips I just got that feeling he wasn't leaving. I think this season is truly going to be a surprise. Katie told Andrew that she wasn't going to settle even if she had to wait.

jen689 wrote:
There's a poster on reddit who says Greg doesn't leave. snipped

The poster says this season is very similar to Kaitlyn's and calls Greg Shawn 2.0 and Blake Nick 2.0. In spite of their "miscommunication" as Katie calls it the poster says Shawn 2.0 (Greg) gets the final rose.

snipped

Re the bold I posted the same thing while watching. That scene reminded me of Nick/K. Also, IIRC Blake came in around the same time Nick did. I sleuthed that at the time RS posted he was spotted filming, but don't recall exactly right now.

alwayscooking

I would think that if Greg was really Katie's F1 at that point, she would have been able to give Greg the reassurance he needed.

You said it better than what I was trying to say. Who knows, maybe she does give him the reassurance after all.


I remember reading this, and after RS's theory today, I'm thinking that's why for me Greg isn't the one. I don't think Blake would care.

“I have sex in the fantasy suites, so you heard it here first. We all know it happens, but no one’s talking about it!” Katie told ET. “I’m embracing who I am and if a guy can’t accept me being sex-positive or talking about sex, it’s just not gonna work out. There are some people who are a little traditional and old school, but people around my age and younger, we’re here for it. It’s 2021, embrace your sexuality and be an empowered woman.”
https://www.justjared.com/2021/06/07/the-bachelorettes-katie-thurston-reveals-if-she-had-sex-in-fantasy-suites/

Katie said there was a really bad villain and all signs point to that being Greg. I really don’t see her choosing him in the end whether he comes back or not. Also, her continually claiming that everything happens for a reason, leads you to believe that things take a turn and she goes a different direction than first intended. She’s also said several times that once she gave up control (trying to fight for her relationship with Greg) that’s when the magic happens. The only rub for me is that Blake seems like a safety net for Katie, although that’s not always bad. He clearly told her he promised her an engagement if he was last one standing. I really don’t see an emotional attachment between those two (yet) just a lot of passion/lust. We shall see...

GuardianAngel wrote:
***snipped***

I remember reading this, and after RS's theory today, I'm thinking that's why for me Greg isn't the one. I don't think Blake would care.

“I have sex in the fantasy suites, so you heard it here first. We all know it happens, but no one’s talking about it!” Katie told ET. “I’m embracing who I am and if a guy can’t accept me being sex-positive or talking about sex, it’s just not gonna work out. There are some people who are a little traditional and old school, but people around my age and younger, we’re here for it. It’s 2021, embrace your sexuality and be an empowered woman.”
https://www.justjared.com/2021/06/07/the-bachelorettes-katie-thurston-reveals-if-she-had-sex-in-fantasy-suites/

Once again, Katie is speaking for others. Well, she can't speak for all older people any more than she can speak for all younger people. Some people (of any age) have a more relaxed attitude about sex, and some people (of any age) have a more moderate or conservative attitude. It's a spectrum. Ever since highly reliable birth control (the pill) came into being in the 1960s, women and couples have had more choices. This is nothing new.

Katie has a very sexually conservative person still on her season, Mike P. It seems that there is at least one on most seasons. Surely she knows this?

luvnunity wrote:Katie said there was a really bad villain and all signs point to that being Greg.  I really don’t see her choosing him in the end whether he comes back or not.  Also, her continually claiming that everything happens for a reason, leads you to believe that things take a turn and she goes a different direction than first intended.  She’s also said several times that once she gave up control (trying to fight for her relationship with Greg) that’s when the magic happens.  The only rub for me is that Blake seems like a safety net for Katie, although that’s not always bad.  He clearly told her he promised her an engagement if he was last one standing.  I really don’t see an emotional attachment between those two (yet) just a lot of passion/lust.  We shall see...

I agree about Blake being a safety net. He seems to be saying just the right things - I'll be there for you - I'll lift you up when you are down - just as you would me etc ..... Imo - it wasn't that Blake was just participating in Claire's and Tayisha's seasons - but that he was really into both of them - and devastated when he was let go. And now he is so into Katie. Just a little too much too soon imo. I don't know about all this sex positivity stuff - but ... it seems that if she were so in love and crazy about one guy - she wouldn't want to have sex with another - and wouldn't want to hurt her new love. What is a committment to her - does she want an open marriage ?

I could see a romantic ending - Greg and Katie realize in their fight that things got out of hand - they went too far - they needed to step back and try to understand the situation and the frustrations that go along with the show. Maybe Katie should have reassured Greg more - but maybe she was still unsure. If that was the case - maybe she shouldn't be getting engaged so soon ! If she rejects Greg - because the fight showed her he didn't trust her, then imo she didn't really understand his feelings and what he was going through - and the nature of the show that the lead can say anything and it doesn't mean you're the one ! If Greg comes back - and they make up - realize they don't want to go on without each other - it could be a nice ending. But if Greg is the wrong one for her - and maybe she and Blake have more in common and he is more calming and laid back for her - then good that she found that out - and hopefully their relationship will last. If I were Greg I wouldn't want to see Katie passionately making out with Blake - but then if I were Blake I wouldn't want to hear Katie say that Greg was the best kisser ! (or was the question - who was the best kisser on that group date ?)

Amethyst wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:
***snipped***

I remember reading this, and after RS's theory today, I'm thinking that's why for me Greg isn't the one. I don't think Blake would care.

“I have sex in the fantasy suites, so you heard it here first. We all know it happens, but no one’s talking about it!” Katie told ET. “I’m embracing who I am and if a guy can’t accept me being sex-positive or talking about sex, it’s just not gonna work out. There are some people who are a little traditional and old school, but people around my age and younger, we’re here for it. It’s 2021, embrace your sexuality and be an empowered woman.”
https://www.justjared.com/2021/06/07/the-bachelorettes-katie-thurston-reveals-if-she-had-sex-in-fantasy-suites/

Once again, Katie is speaking for others. Well, she can't speak for all older people any more than she can speak for all younger people. Some people (of any age) have a more relaxed attitude about sex, and some people (of any age) have a more moderate or conservative attitude. It's a spectrum. Ever since highly reliable birth control (the pill) came into being in the 1960s, women and couples have had more choices. This is nothing new.

Katie has a very sexually conservative person still on her season, Mike P. It seems that there is at least one on most seasons. Surely she knows this?

I really don't understand what "sex positive" is all about.   I think most people are positive about sex.  I don't understand the need to tell the world about what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom. Just because someone chooses to carry around d!ld@ or blab about what they do, doesn't make them anymore positive about sex than someone that chooses not to.
IMO, of course.  But I'm old

alwayscooking wrote:

Amethyst wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:
***snipped***

I remember reading this, and after RS's theory today, I'm thinking that's why for me Greg isn't the one. I don't think Blake would care.

“I have sex in the fantasy suites, so you heard it here first. We all know it happens, but no one’s talking about it!” Katie told ET. “I’m embracing who I am and if a guy can’t accept me being sex-positive or talking about sex, it’s just not gonna work out. There are some people who are a little traditional and old school, but people around my age and younger, we’re here for it. It’s 2021, embrace your sexuality and be an empowered woman.”
https://www.justjared.com/2021/06/07/the-bachelorettes-katie-thurston-reveals-if-she-had-sex-in-fantasy-suites/

Once again, Katie is speaking for others. Well, she can't speak for all older people any more than she can speak for all younger people. Some people (of any age) have a more relaxed attitude about sex, and some people (of any age) have a more moderate or conservative attitude. It's a spectrum. Ever since highly reliable birth control (the pill) came into being in the 1960s, women and couples have had more choices. This is nothing new.

Katie has a very sexually conservative person still on her season, Mike P. It seems that there is at least one on most seasons. Surely she knows this?

I really don't understand what "sex positive" is all about.   I think most people are positive about sex.  I don't understand the need to tell the world about what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom. Just because someone chooses to carry around d!ld@ or blab about what they do, doesn't make them anymore positive about sex than someone that chooses not to.
IMO, of course.  But I'm old

The season isn’t helping to clarify what sex positive means. Case in point: anti - self pleasure dare. If it had resulted in the guys identifying the dare as crossing a boundary of a person’s right to their body then it would have been informative. That could have led to either Kaitlyn or Katie having to respond to why the ask was made. Instead, it was a WTH scene.
Her fantasy suite quote also causes confusion because a person can be sex positive while deciding at some point to be sexually exclusive. And a person can be sex positive and comfortable talking about sex but choose to be selective about who they want to talk about sex with.
IMO it’s often about choice not tradition. People who want exclusivity or a monogamous relationship because of who they have met aren’t necessarily old or new school just like people who want to be in an open relationship aren’t necessarily sex positive. It’s much more nuanced.

@alwayscooking and @notarose, I agree with you both. I have no real idea what Katie means when she says that she is sex positive, other than that she appears to like sex and doesn't mind talking about it. But if she's so "sex positive," why is she trying to control what the men do on their own, in the privacy of their suites? That makes zero sense.

When Katie says, “I have sex in the fantasy suites, so you heard it here first. We all know it happens, but no one’s talking about it!" Well, there have been leads who have talked about it in the past. Some have sex with their F1, some with two or more of the finalists, and some not at all. My feeling is that I really don't need to know about it. That's between the lead and the finalists. But Katie is hardly the first lead to talk about it.

Perhaps she means that she doesn't want to be shamed or judged for her sexual choices, whatever they may be, which is fine. But if that's the case, why does she keep talking about it?

@luvnunity, I think that Greg turns out to be the "villain" as well. To me, Blake is far too laid back, and also too savvy about how the show operates, to blow it at this point. I think that Greg's insecurities will get the better of him.

Amethyst wrote:@alwayscooking and @notarose, I agree with you both. I have no real idea what Katie means when she says that she is sex positive, other than that she appears to like sex and doesn't mind talking about it. But if she's so "sex positive," why is she trying to control what the men do on their own, in the privacy of their suites? That makes zero sense.

When Katie says, “I have sex in the fantasy suites, so you heard it here first. We all know it happens, but no one’s talking about it!" Well, there have been leads who have talked about it in the past. Some have sex with their F1, some with two or more of the finalists, and some not at all. My feeling is that I really don't need to know about it. That's between the lead and the finalists. But Katie is hardly the first lead to talk about it.

Perhaps she means that she doesn't want to be shamed or judged for her sexual choices, whatever they may be, which is fine. But if that's the case, why does she keep talking about it?

@luvnunity, I think that Greg turns out to be the "villain" as well. To me, Blake is far too laid back, and also too savvy about how the show operates, to blow it at this point. I think that Greg's insecurities will get the better of him.

If she’s referring to Greg, I’m curious what makes him a “villain”. Is it because they disagree? Is it because he challenged her commitment to him? Is it because he shamed her? I have no idea, but it’s quite the label she’s chosen to use, so I hope it’s deserving.

If Katie was set on Blake as F1, I also find it interesting that she chose to fight “for hours” with someone she had no intention of choosing in the end.

Someone over on Reddit who stayed at Tamaya after the season wrapped (and who talked to the staff there,) said that the fight was so bad that it required the intervention of both the production staff and the resort staff.