Bachelor 25 - Matt James - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

luvstx wrote:I have had his thought for the past couple of weeks and have to throw it out there:

Don’t you think that Matt and his F4 had conversations about their political leanings at some point?  After all, our presidential election happened during filming.  

And let’s not get political here...but I just think that conversation, especially in today’s world, would be important.

Matt mentioned early on that he liked that he and Rachael had the same views on several things. Didn’t go into detail. But we know he was impressed when she told him she teared up at his prayer. I wouldn’t doubt that they spoke about politics as well. It’s no different than Michelle bringing up work with kids to establish common ground. They either did their research or they were coached. Either way, his strings were being pulled.

Amethyst wrote:

luvnunity wrote:Food for thought.  We’ve seen the stats on viewership and on screen representation.  Given the “tendencies” of Bachelor Nation, if a black woman had been spoiled as the winner, would viewers have tuned out? I’m seeing how quickly people are turning on Matt at the thought of him dumping Rachael. His happiness was never the goal, was it?

... My question about it has to do with the timing. A member of Reddit posted a timeline that shows Matt appearing to be supportive of Rachael ("rumors can be dark and nasty") in the February 4th ET interview. (At that point the Tik-Tok story was already out, as were most of the photos except for the Old South photos.) There was a possible safe house visit around Valentine's Day. Things seem okay up through February 19th, with the breakup possibly happening around the 20th. By February 22nd, Matt posted his statement at which point he was clearly over it.

I think the key phrase is “appearing to be supportive”. We don’t know how supportive Matt really was of Rachael when he did the February 4th ET interview. It seemed he was doing what the show usually does — telling people that rumors are bad and that we need to let people have the opportunity to speak. I agree with Renee’s thoughts that about how Matt likely processed all of this.

I believe that a lot of them do discuss that, @luvstx. I remember reading way back that Meredith and Ian talked about it and also more recent couples.

ReneeM wrote:I definitely think Matt’s image & how the story blew up to epic proportions after Chris’ disastrous interview played a huge role in Matt’s decision to dump Rachael.  ~ snipped

Many viewers looked side-eyed at the choice of Matt as The Bachelor. He was all about continuing to live the "hot boy summer" life with Tyler - until he was ready to pursue forever love with Clare. Yeah, Clare. Then we watched the nonstop antics with him and the quarantine crew. Immediately after, he could see his wife on the sofa at Nemacolin and was ready to propose marriage. OK... This Latina mom of 2 bi-racial sons can assure viewers that discussions on previous dating history is held in the "talking to" stage before any real involvement begins. The is one important way BIPOC men must protect themselves in the real world.

Storyboards for the contestants are planned every season with roles of villain, never in love, tattletale, hot chemistry, etc. determined before filming starts. Every season contestants look for ways to establish common ground with the lead starting on the first night. Every season the lead chooses their top 4-6 contestants and they get the best dates, 1-1 dates and best rooms. The matter-of-time contestants do their best to get screen time. The producers work hard to get the best performances out of the lead and contestants to increase viewership which means more $$$ for everyone. A Neil Lane diamond seals the deal of "happily ever after" or until TPTB allow the unhappy couple to announce their breakup. Very rarely do we get the Mesnicks, the Lowes, the Siegfrieds, the Luyendyks. All IMO after watching every single season.

I'm pleasantly surprised that Matt had so many intelligent, beautiful BIPOC contestants to choose from. Viewers got to see the real world realities of a 13 year old single mom, ethic hair insecurities, lying about involvement in adult entertainment, biracial and multi-ethnic families, social injustice and more. All from a silly reality tv dating show. Like many others, I never thought Matt would marry his F1 regardless of who she is. IMO.

@ReneeM Love your thoughtful post as to how things may have changed what Matt thinks of Rachael.
@luvstx Becca mentioned on a podcast that she advised Matt to ask the contestants he was serious about who they voted for for President. She said she wished she had done that during her season.
"@FLChica" Thanks for sharing your perspective and how you've raised your sons to be aware to look deeper at words and motives.

What do you think will happen at ATFR?

Will Matt be single after having broken up with Rachael? Will he and Rachael reconcile? Will Matt pursue one of the other F4? Something else?

gabriele wrote:What do you think will happen at ATFR?

Will Matt be single after having broken up with Rachael? Will he and Rachael reconcile? Will Matt pursue one of the other F4? Something else?

I def think Matt will be single after breaking up with Rachael. jmo

@Jolena When was the last time the show ended with the lead single without asking the F2 out (like Hannah did with Tyler). The show always likes to end with the possibility of love happening for the lead. I don’t think the show wants to end with Matt essentially saying he will look for love elsewhere. If they can avoid it.

I could see Matt being single or pursuing one of the other women, or there may at least be the appearance of a possible relationship with one of the other women.

TPTB might lean into Matt’s empowerment as a black man by having him stand up to racism by his off camera(?) breakup with Rachael. On Peter’s season we saw HA have her empowering moment where she stood up to Peter. HA let Peter have it.  If TPTB are smart they won’t have Rachael on for long and will focus on her apology and her now becoming anti-racist. I have read that if Matt confronts Rachael on camera or too strongly it could make her look like a victim because she is already apologetic. So, they might avoid that if they are smart.

Since the TPTB are scrambling to clean up their racist mess I could see them largely scapegoating Rachael. I also think right now Rachael is hoping for a reconciliation with Matt but my thought is TPTB will steer Matt away from that so as to further the empowerment of him. They threw Matt under the bus like no other and now I think they will try to make up for that by supporting his empowerment as they did with HA.

If nothing seems to be working with a reconciliation with any of the other women and Matt is single, then they could lean into Matt’s empowerment hard.  TPTB can also showcase the changes to the franchise they are making including replacing CH and pat themselves on the back for these actions. CH will also probably be scapegoated. Of course CH and Rachael are both responsible for their racist actions but I doubt TPTB will take any real responsibility for their own part and pin all the blame on Rachael and CH.

We also saw TPTB try to force a reconciliation with Peter and Madi. What is interesting to me about that is how truly devious TPTB were in their machinations. Madi seemed to sincerely be interested in a reconciliation but Barb had no idea this was in the works and went ballistic. Peter all the while was already pursuing Kelly. I don’t think they let the right hand know what the left is doing as much as possible. So, I think they may well have been steering Matt away from Rachael and may try to engineer a reconciliation, or the appearance of one, with Serena P. That is my conspiracy theory anyway and Serena had a bouquet of flowers on her IG story today. Could be totally unrelated but I could see TPTB starting at the filming of WTA to try to get them back together.

I know some think Matt and Rachael will get back together at ATFR but I think TPTB need to rehabilitate their racist image too much to encourage that.

In the end I think TPTB are far more crafty and manipulative than I ever imagined. They really know how to steer the outcomes they want all the while leaving the contestants and lead none the wiser for the most part. Until of course they went too far with Matt’s season. jmo

Barring the spoilers, judging from the FS day activities, I would order the ladies as follows:
F1-Michelle- Spa date-Milk bath, oil massage and pool-
F2-Rachael- Pottery making
F3-Bri-Hiking

The spa date is the chemistry date, imo. We may not be shown a lot of physical chemistry but Matt even said their attraction was undeniable. Some are still giving him pecks as kisses while Michelle has been kissing his neck a few weeks now. They have enjoyed a different level makeout than others. This reminds me of Ali and Roberto's FS date where they were on an uninhabited island. They didn't have activities to pass the time, they WERE the activity for each other.
The HTD was very similar to Roberto's as well where the family was all in and then danced together as a family just as The Young's played basketball with Matt as a family. We didn't see family activities for any of the other HTD's.
I think FS week is where things turn the corner for Matt and his feelings may shift a bit. May or may not change the assumed outcome, just my observations.
Bri at this point feels like collateral damage, which sucks but it doesn't seem like her presence is much of a factor anymore.
It's weird watching Rachael's body language with Matt, especially at this point still seeing them so stiff as they talk on the sofa during FS. It's still so formal. I'm wondering if she'll be more relaxed during the date. No matter what they think their feelings are, if they haven't developed a strong enough physical chemistry, the overnight will be awkward.

@luvnunity I was reminded of Tyler’s spa date when thinking about Michelle’s FS date, with the steamy, undeniable chemistry.  Their relationship reminds me of Tyler and Hannah too where it was slower to start, and Tyler never caught up to Jed.  In Michelle’s case she came in late, and never caught up to Rachael. My opinion is that Michelle was held back specifically because producers wanted Matt to end up with a white woman, and Michelle was the most likely to throw a wrench in that plan.

Bri’s hiking date is actually the most F1-ish date to me, because it gives them time to just talk as they hike.

I can’t understand why Matt and Rachael are sitting on the couch at this late date talking about her seeing color in all it’s dimensions and love is love. It’s so strange to me and I agree that the physical chemistry is so stiff. I really think he connected with her early, was attracted to her looks and her model-influencer lifestyle which would let her pick up and move to NYC or wherever he wants to be, and she came from the South with similar political views. I think he minimized the importance of sexual chemistry.

All IMO

I think Matt has the most physical chemistry with Bri. I saw a photo yesterday, I think it was on Cary Fetman’s IG, where Matt had both arms around Bri. I don’t think I’ve seen any photos like that with anyone else.