Bachelor 25 - Matt James - Media SM - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

gabriele wrote:Certainly, some of the flurry of contestant statements coming out today are performative but where is Hannah B? Come on, girl! She said she would be on this.

She stopped “listening and learning” about two weeks after the heat on her died down . Jmo.

ReneeM wrote:

gabriele wrote:Certainly, some of the flurry of contestant statements coming out today are performative but where is Hannah B? Come on, girl! She said she would be on this.

She stopped “listening and learning” about two weeks after the heat on her died down . Jmo.

Sadly, you are probably right. It’s certainly disappointing.

Ruqibabe wrote:I am loving Taylor but I dont want them to fire Chris H though..

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLNThRdJ5qd/?igshid=19gmyij8dey1o

I don't want Chris H. fired either. Even though Chris has XVP status for production, IMO this all comes down to the show runner. The show runner sets the overall culture and makes the calls. This is the person who has the power to say, "We are going to change the culture of this show so that there is no more overt racism (Lee,) or casual racism (Rachael) if we can possibly help it. We will have clear expectations for our cast members and leads, we will do our vetting, and the expectations will be contractual." Then do what every other business does and provide training to your new hires (the incoming cast members.)

gabriele wrote:

ReneeM wrote:

gabriele wrote:Certainly, some of the flurry of contestant statements coming out today are performative but where is Hannah B? Come on, girl! She said she would be on this.

She stopped “listening and learning” about two weeks after the heat on her died down . Jmo.

Sadly, you are probably right. It’s certainly disappointing.

I personally do not expect every former lead or cast member to comment on every show issue or every cultural/societal issue. IMO that is putting too much on them for their participation in what is, after all, an entertainment show. I don't expect present or former leads or cast members to be actively advocating for anything. If they want to, fine, and if they don't want to, that's fine as well. What I do expect is decent public behavior and I think that Hannah B. has delivered on that since her apology. In all honesty, that's all I expect from Rachael as well. No more sketchy behavior or photos, and I think she needs to re-examine some of her small town friendships and distance herself from people who are bullies. OTOH, I don't think the show needs to give her any kind of platform after this season. The show should in no way reward sketchy behavior.

I would be in favor of TB giving Tayshia an increased role. During her season, I saw how well spoken she was and how gracefully she handles interviews. It dawned on me that she would do quite well in the field of entertainment. The show would be foolish to blow this opportunity if Tayshia is interested.

@Amethyst I would normally agree with you about not expecting contestants to comment or advocate on issues except Hannah B specifically said she was making a commitment to be an ally to the black community. It was a big part of her apology and how she was going to rectify her own racism. I actually thought she meant it. Right now that doesn’t appear to be the case.

mercieme wrote:Chris Harrison is also an executive producer and if interested, folks can check Bekah Martinez’s IG for a post on the list of problematic things that Chris has said over the years. The fact is Chris has always gotten away with things he said and this is the first time some fans put the work in to expose him and it blew up. I know for many of us that work in corporate or public organizations, there is zero tolerance in the workplace for some of the things that have come out of Chris’s mouth, all just my opinion.

Edit to add - Mike Fleiss is also problematic, he owns the show though & is not employed by ABC. ABC can only take a stance with Fleiss and refuse to air the show anymore. Chris Harrison on the other hand is an ABC employee.

Chris is employed by ABC? Where is this stated?

More info that I haven't read!

“I’m having a really, really hard time reasoning or really taking in and accepting this apology and I’ll tell you why,” she said. “When I finished that interview with Chris Harrison, he had no problems with it. He was fine. He texted me after. He appreciated the conversation. He was like, ‘Yeah, I’ll probably get a little flack.’ He thought it was great that we could disagree but do it in a civil way.”

Lindsay said that his apology didn’t come until after the backlash that followed the interview.

https://etcanada.com/news/746689/rachel-lindsay-shares-why-shes-having-a-really-hard-time-accepting-chris-harrisons-apology/

Yeah, I don't believe CH's apology is sincere at all. From listening to him in that interview, he probably thinks it's just the "woke police" unjustifiably out to get him

The Bachelor Franchise is an ABC show, so Chris is an ABC employee. He isn't only the host -- he is also an executive producer of the show. He is part of TPTB. He makes a hefty salary for both his hosting and part of the production team. He has probably felt like he could say anything he wanted within the Franchise because of this. Maybe some of the people will take him "off the pedestal" they might have him on after this. All JMO.

Chris has made many problematic statements over the years with no repercussions & I think that’s what emboldened him to spend 14 minutes showing us who he really is. The man needs to gooooooo.

People who are close friends with Chris have made statements condemning what he did yet the most followed person in this franchise despite three known racist incidents, who promised to never stop being an ally, which lasted all of a couple weeks, remains silent. Hannah is no better than Rachael K, IMO.

A few people on Rachael’s thread mentioned wanting to be an ally, so I thought I’d post a few thoughts off the top on what I’ve learned about that. This isn’t exhaustive by any means, and I definitely have not arrived. I’m sure I still have plenty to both learn and unlearn as this is always a continuing process. In this post I’m focusing primarily on racism directed toward the black community because of the issues that have come up in BN over the last year with HB and now Rachael & CH. Of course there is plenty of racism toward other POC that is no less serious.

I can think of 3 steps in this process:

1. Think
2. Speak
3. Act

Think:

First, start to educate yourself, if you haven’t already, and confront your own racism. There is both overt and covert racism. While most of us who are white are not engaging in overt racism we likely have and are unknowingly engaging in covert racism. Most of us are also non racist but need to learn to become anti racist.

Rather than defining those terms I’ll let you do the work and look them up. It’s a great way to learn. One thing you don’t want to do is to ask black people to do the work for you by explaining these terms and other concepts regarding racism, but rather do the work yourself to help relieve their burdens. Many of them have expressed feeling exhausted in dealing with racism like Rachel Lindsay has and it is our job to educate ourselves about our racism. It isn’t the job of black people to educate us about racism against them.

Read books by black authors rather than white authors. You can’t learn about the experience of racism from white people. And, supporting black authors helps them economically. That’s important. Listen to podcasts by black people (even BN podcasts) and watch documentaries, etc.

Listen to black voices. This is key.

Here are a few other terms that are good to understand:

white privilege
unconscious or implicit bias
systemic racism vs individual racist acts
anti racist vs non racist
emotional labor
being an ally
white fragility
tone policing
overt vs covert racism
intention vs impact
power dynamics of racism
dog whistles
coded language
intersectionality
cultural appropriation e.g. digital blackface
microaggressions
for the christians:
individual sin vs structural sin

Speak:

Speak up in your own life, online and wherever you hear people making racist statements. Chances are they aren’t doing it intentionally but are doing it out of ignorance. Ignorant racism is still racism. Also, impact is greater than intention. e. g. If a drunk driver kills someone they probably didn’t intend to do so but the impact of their action is they have taken a life.

Speak up even on this forum. I’m surprised so few people here do so.

Act: a few suggestions (this is a bit of a jumble as I wrote it elsewhere)

-start following black people on SM in your hobbies (if you knit follow some black knitters, etc)
-support black businesses, authors, etc
-sign petitions
-contact your political reps and support legislation to end racism
-donate to black causes
-have these difficult and exhausting conversations as uncomfortable as they may be
-call out racism in your friends and family —do it in love though
-volunteer with groups who help the poor because they likely will be POC
-sign up for a class at university/black church or organization on black history, race, etc
-read books by black authors : novels, biographies, books on racism etc
-watch movies by and about black people
-attend a black church once a month if you are Christian and get to know the people
-learn about the history and legacy of slavery
-if you’re living in a white bubble get out of it either irl or online and interact with people of all walks of life just to get to know them

@gabriele thank you for your wonderful, informed, helpful post. I am trying to do the hard work of being a true ally so your suggestions are great reminders. I particularly like your sentence “Ignorant racism is also racism”

I finally just watched the whole interview with CH. CH’s comments and affect were beyond disappointing. His true colors came out. Sad. I’ve been in Bn since the beginning but, if Chris stays, I’m not sure I can keep watching.

It was quite upsetting and illuminating to hear former contestants and leads mention how BIPOC are treated by TPTB. Sickening.