Re: Blake & Holly - Discussion - Thread #1

[Guest]

As far as I know, neither Blake nor Holly are members of this forum...

And therefore, are fair game for any and all opinions and comments...

No matter how ugly, or distasteful they may seem to others who might see them in a different light...

A perceived or real slight aimed at THEM is NOT an attack on any of their FANS.

As has been said many times, many ways, almost none of us know any of these people personally, and therefore have no idea how they would be if we ever encountered them. We might be embarassed at our previous opinions, or we might have all of our feelings confirmed.

If you try not to take these things personally, you'll save yourself a whole lot of grief and aggravation! :Nod:

[ironcat]

I would also like to add that there is a difference between criticizing someone's actions, and hurling gratuitous insults at them, and I don't really see much of the latter on this board. Sometimes people just don't come across as particularly likable on the show to some of us, and it often has nothing to do with editing.

The point of my comment came at the heels of a page prior to here: "What a smug jackass. And Holly offends me because she just seems deeply dumb, although it's probably all an act that she puts on around guys, which is even worse than actually being deeply dumb." I think that qualifies 'gratuitous insults; and reason enough to encourage all to keep a perspective about what is being shown. We need to strive to keep this board a cut above the rest. There's nothing wrong with picking a favorite - but, being respective in expression is something we can all do, right?

Fine. Allow me to rephrase my original post.

"I greatly disliked what the editors chose to show of Blake's character on Ashley's season, and I greatly disliked what the editors chose to show of Blake's character on BP2. It is my opinion, and my opinion only, that he came across as a smug jackass, and I didn't care at all for the Blake that I saw on TV."

Is that better? I guess I didn't realize this was a Blake and Holly fan thread and that only positive comments were allowed. And as ironcat said, far worse insults were hurled at both Ashley and JP on this very board, so if we're going to keep it "a cut above," perhaps that respect should be shown to all contestants and not just a select few?

I think your comments are fair Eagle. These two did not look the best on BP. Shame the whole thing was so messy. I am a fan of these two and hope they stay happy but it definitely wasn't a smooth beginning

Just goes to show how the producers can polarize the opinions of viewers to keep them talking about the show and watching. Also goes to show how they will sacrifice the people they choose to be on the show for the sake of their ratings. They will even throw their primary leads under the bus - whatever it takes to get picked up for another season. And they all skip gayly to the bank to deposit their paychecks.... most amazing to me, is how they can sleep at night after some of the antics that they pull.

While this is true, it is irresponsible to blame everything on the producers. Holly and Blake are responsible for their own actions, and they certainly made their share of mistakes.

I have never believed, as some seem to, that it is just pure bad luck that causes some perfectly nice person to get a terrible edit, as if the producers just arbitrarily pull a name out of a hat pre-filming to determine which poor unsuspecting soul is going to become their villain that season. Particularly with the contestants (as opposed to the lead), they have many options, so they are going to target the person(s) who give them the most material to work with right off the bat. Will they exaggerate, manipulate and egg on the bad behavior? Absolutely, but the individual most probably did something to shine a negative light on themselves first, and then MF and crew decided to run with it.

[ironcat]

What I've never understood is how the contestants like Blake (and Ryan) could possibly think they still had a chance to be chosen by the lead, as opposed to just being "matter of time" fodder, at the point where others are already getting second solo dates while they have had none. If it were me, I would have just chilled out by then and looked at it as a free vacation to exotic places, and not have gotten upset about whatever the lead did or didn't do/feel/say, since it would have been pretty obvious that it barely concerned me and my future anyway.

Not much of a free vacation to go to exotic places and NOT be allowed to leave the room unless on a date. I believe at the beginning of the show they were grooming Ryan for the primary lead on the next season. He was already likely in talk with his handler about that (which may have propelled him into being a supporter of JP/Ashley early on). He was almost protective of them. His one/one time with her in the rain after she and JP necked under the umbrella was likely just a 'decoy'. I'll bet it was discussed secretively that Ashley would take him into the F2 position, which would have worked out well for setting him up as the next lead,...but his alias plucked a nerve a concern for the producers who needed a dramatic ending.

Any number of stuff is told to these people by their handlers. I believe that whoever was assigned to Ben was extra good in getting him to believe that he was the F1. So while Ben did not have any real intimacy or deep emotional connections with Ashley to let him believe she was really into him, his handlers were probably feeding him crap about her being shy, or uncertain of his feelings, or even tell him things like 'she talks about you all the time', etc. to lead him down that path.

I do believe many men did just what you suggest you would have done -- they yielded to JP after seeing his connection with Ashley. They couldn't let them all leave otherwise they would not have had a show.

Also important to know is that Ashley was under a lot of pressure to "act" interested and intimate on her dates. Except with JP, they were all rather lack luster/vanilla - she just was not giving them the footage they needed to edit anyone as equal to her emotion for JP.

Remember also that on Regis, she admitted to being the one to say ILU first.... and they both said that Hong Kong was THE date for them... so there's no way she would have been invested in any other guy from that point on.

I agree with much of your post. Jason Mesnick confirmed that he was fed crap by his handler about how Deanna was definitely picking him, so I have no doubt they do the same to the F2 every season. And I perfectly understand how the ones who get the first round of solo dates could be convinced by what the producers tell them that the lead has a real interest in them and that they are even the lead's favorite, I just don't know how producers could convince someone of this, while still denying that person a solo date. To me, that's pretty obvious "writing on the wall".

Bringing this back to Blake, by the time they were in HK, did he really still believe that once/if he got a solo date, he would be able to make Ashley fall for him over the other guys who she already seemed to be falling for? And did he even care at that point, or was that largely ego-driven? Or was he just along for the ride by then, enjoying the experience and hanging out with the other guys? I tend to assume the latter, which also makes me wonder how much of his "anger" at Ashley over the Bentley situation was just posturing; ie, it wasn't Bentley who killed his chances with Ashley, it was her preference for other guys who were still there, over him.

[albean99]

I don't know, I think Blake and the others had a perfect right to be angry by what Ashley said. They had to feel they were wasting their time by being there when she was still hung up on a guy who left on his own weeks before. She's the one who told them that she couldn't forget Bentley even though she was going on dates with them so what else were they supposed to think?

I also find it hard to blame the guys for thinking they had a chance with Ashley. That's the magic of being in the Bachelor bubble with a little help from Ashley making them feel they're special. Of course she has to do it but she's been on the other side so should have had some empathy. She almost seemed mad that they dared to be upset. It's really a lose lose situation for the lead and the ones they don't pick. :greenman:

[ironcat]

I find it interesting that the ones who seemed the least angry with Ashley were also the ones who, it turned out, were the most interested/invested in her, namely, JP, Ben, Ames and Ryan, and therefore, IMO, probably had the most reason to be angry about her "wasting their time", ie, courting her/falling for her with no chance of success. Coincidence?

Sorry, I realize that this IS the Bachelor Bubble, but even so, finding out that Ashley chose every guy for a solo date but you HAS to make you question if something's lacking in your "connection" with her, doesn't it?

I also would find it somewhat laughable and hard to sympathize with Blake if he did indeed criticize Ashley's lack of empathy, considering how he treated Melissa on BP. Hypocrite much?

[albean99]

It wasn't Blake criticizing Ashley's lack of empathy, it was me. I also went back to see how Blake was with Ashley and didn't have a problem with it. IA that Blake made mistakes especially with Melissa. I do think it's different because it was a game and how you play it. I wouldn't have chosen to do what he did but it was nowhere near to the level of what Bentley did to Ashley which is something I've heard him compared to.

Nobody is going to like everybody and there's probably good reason when it comes to Blake but I like him and Holly. I hope they make it. :lovecoffee:

[ironcat]

It wasn't Blake criticizing Ashley's lack of empathy, it was me. I also went back to see how Blake was with Ashley and didn't have a problem with it. IA that Blake made mistakes especially with Melissa. I do think it's different because it was a game and how you play it. I wouldn't have chosen to do what he did but it was nowhere near to the level of what Bentley did to Ashley which is something I've heard him compared to.

Nobody is going to like everybody and there's probably good reason when it comes to Blake but I like him and Holly. I hope they make it. :lovecoffee:

I know, that's why I said if. To each their own, but I personally think Blake displayed a far greater lack of empathy towards Melissa than Ashley did towards him, or towards any of the other guys. And it being a game doesn't excuse being cruel for me. YMMV.

[albean99]

That's fine but anything Blake did in BP has nothing to do with what Ashley did as lead imo.

[sjcaligurl]

As far as guys like Blake, Mickey, Lucas and Dino went, I think that Bentley wasn't the issue. I think they were frustrated that they weren't getting the kind of time and attention that Ryan (even though she didn't really like him), Ben and JP were getting. Bentley gave them the option to vent/be outraged but, seriously, if you are competing with someone who isn't even there, you need to catch a clue.

Blake was nasty and Mickey attempted to grand stand and ended up exiting on his own. Something weird must have gone down between Ashley and Blake because when BP2 was airing, she definitely compared him to Bentley and she wasn't kidding. That has been my main issue with Blake and Holly. He DOES seem to have a mean/verbally abusive streak and I just hope Holly doesn't get to experience it when they have conflicts - because they will have conflicts at some point.

Being the lead is hard and you can never please everyone. The nature of this beast is that people are going to be hurt - especially those who get to the end. Anyone who gets an HTD assumes they are in the running even though most leads already know who they want at that point. Same thing with the FDs.

As quickly as Blake says he fell for Holly, it's quite possible that he thought that if he got some alone time, something could happen.

He and Holly have a wedding planner now and they seem to be doing just fine. Poor Michael is at home twiddling his thumbs begging his brother and new SIL to come home because he misses them. LOL!

[Guest]

I wasn't a Blake fan on either show, not a Blake fan now, and will never be a Blake fan. This guy has red flags flying out of his head, imo Maybe if he really loves Holly, that will bring out the best in him. I've only seen the worst on both shows. He comes across from twitter and both shows as very conceited and thinks he's 'all that'. Not my type in a million years, Holly can have him. :P That being said, I always hope for the best with any of these couples, as I like happy endings.

[ironcat]

That's fine but anything Blake did in BP has nothing to do with what Ashley did as lead imo.

The situations occurred at different times of course, and one didn't hinge in any way upon the other, but when it comes to criticizing someone for lacking empathy, I would consider Blake to be a much bigger offender in that area than Ashley, based on comparing their behavior in the scenarios we saw. JMO.

Makes me wonder what kind of a lead Blake would have made, and how he would have treated the "rejects". Yikes!

[Love_Me]

@HollyDurst Holly Durst
Happy Holly-ween! lockerz.com/s/152006660

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