Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - July 29 & 30 - Finale - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #3

Idlemess wrote:From what I saw, Tyler was being gracious and gentlemanly. He was cautious and maintained a respectable distance during the sit down. What else could he have done? IF, they were communicating and had met up imo that exchange would have been entirely different. 

All I saw was a young man who likes the girl and wants the best for her. Imagine if he said to her, with all due respect Nah to your drinks. Just imagine!  
Hannah had to practically hold it together after the full Jed disclosure of false hopes and dreams and an engagement. She’s attempting to save face by smiling and espousing her scripted invite to Tyler. Imagined he said NO I’m good! Her broken heart would’ve been shattered more. Not the way to conclude a romance reality show. End on a good note. New Bachelor to be announced and Paradise soon to start. She’s fade away eventually. JMO

Tyler’s note imo was also cautiously written with his regards to their experience and the friendship that was developed. He supports her and yeah I’ll have a drink with you. Why not? 
I’m reminded that Hannah controlled any opportunity she might have had with Tyler and she never chose him. Imagine being her default plan C or possibly D.  To me, looking at Tyler sitting and seeing all that have unfolded is out of the bubble and extended a support hand to an old friend. Cheers!

@Idlemess
you saw exactly what was on millions of television screens. IMO

I guess the signal here in nyc was distorted then 

@Billysmom I agree. I think they will try to stay under the radar. Also, I don't think he is interested in being the bachelor. He has such a higher profile.

Anyone who could think of Hannah's pain while in the midst of himself being rejected is not ready to reject 29 gals himself, nor the very special gal whose cheerleader he pledges to be, always. Jmo.   

I can't convey just how gobsmacked I am that he could think of her at that moment. He is a far better person than I, truth.

The Bachelorette @BacheloretteABC
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Sharleen mentioned something in her recap that I was thinking last night. Jed kept downplaying his relationship with Haley as if it made things better. He told her he loved her when apparently he didn’t, he went on a paid for vacation with her, and she met his family all while he was sleeping with other women. The guy is completely tone deaf if he thought Hannah, or any woman, would think that was better.

I do think that Tyler is taking meeting up with Hannah seriously and seemed happy about it in his interview with Nick. I’m not saying he was gushing but he mentioned her dimples plus how he sold a house and therefore could buy her a "drink" and both were unprompted. Neither are giving any promises and odds aren’t great but we will see soon enough.

I also agree that Hannah did very well last night and had poise that I’m not sure I would have at 24. I really liked how she asked people not to cheer (even though I probably was ). Yes, she has some maturing to do but she’s come a long way this season, IMO.

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Billysmom wrote:IMHO she's not shown herself to be arrogant or uncaring....she's actually pretty humble and very generous with her love. She screwed up, basing her final choices on some past paradigms that she's probably only recently identified. She hurt him, but she also hurt herself. Her goal is not to hurt but to love and be loved fiercely. The earth has to crack for seeds to be able to sprout and grow...so IMO Hannah's heartbreak is fertile ground in which she and Tyler can grow something really fruitful. He was genuinely crazy about her. If he can be patient with her -if- then blessings on both of them. Jmo. But if he feels she cannot give him her whole heart, then yes, he would be right to stay only friends. He will need to listen to his heart/gut. She will need to be 1000% honest with him every step! which I think she is capable if being. 

My DH always said he had to go thru a few heartbreaks before he would be able to fully appreciate someone like me. (Eta not that I'm a Tyler, just counter to his usual type) Glad I didn't throw him away prematurely for that!!! As Tyler has written somewhere, it's all in gods timing.  Jmo

Thanks for such a beautiful post...and to the bold:

Hannah has grown on me from someone I didn’t know much from the Colton’s season, that I watched only randomly, to a young woman willingly shedding some of her old beliefs and finding her own power through trial and error in such a relatable way, staying unapologetically herself  throughout her ‘ journey ‘, despite many big red flags surrounding her at all time. I couldn’t help watching along as my curiosity quickly transformed into full on support for her unfolding adventure in finding the right man for her.
Through that process, she uncovered and faced many of her familiar relationship patterns and made choices that made me, and lots of others, scream at my TV and wish she could see what is so obvious to US, the
‘ objective’ viewer. She took us with her through a very torturous and often painful road towards realizing what her self worth is and how she can feel more secure in her owning her own power and learn to share herself from a place of power as opposed to a place of need. That is one of the gift that is hidden in this transformative time for her, and I strongly believe that in some mysterious way, the men she met and fell for the strongest were all instrumental in her awakening. It took a narcissistic person like Luke, a sociopath like Jed to confront and eventually tear down her preconceived notions about relationships and how these were stifling her growth. It also took meeting a very different kind of guy, a true gentleman like Tyler to stir up the new possibilities and begin to feel like she deserved better for herself. There are people that come into our life that immediately and thoroughly make us better people, that shine a light that guide us to become a better version of ourselves.
It’s obvious to me that Tyler and Hannah are able to be that for each other, which they both shared publicly and to each other. They have some really good seeds to grow a wonderful relationship.

SarahD wrote:I think Hannah has shown tremendous growth and grace over the last few days, which shows how she processed and learned from this.  We could have very well ended up with another Jillian. In certain moments last night I thought we were going down there because of RS spoiler about a reconciliation. I am mighty glad it didn’t happen.

I actually think she deserves someone as great as Tyler, if not Tyler himself. She was manipulated and she had to see for herself how easily manipulated she can be when she has blinders on. Part of what I love about her is also her fault. She’s so transparent that makes it easy for people with ill-intentions to see through that. She needs to be more aware of others and self-aware in order not to trip the same wire.

I do think and believe she deserves Tyler or someone stronger. Tyler is pretty strong but he also lived in a bubble. I love what he said that she made him a better man. I think we all need a person who brings the best in us (not the worst in us). Tyler and Hannah brought the best in each other so as much as I wish it can happen, it might be too late and too tainted with all the drama that’s happened. That’s what’s unfortunate.

I really just  can’t accept that Hannah is some messed up girl who deserve to lose everything especially Tyler just because she loved herself more and didn’t settle with working through Jed’s lies.  Yes, there were three other men she put in front of Tyler but we’re looking from the outside. We didn’t go through it from her vantage point where there’s all these men and the producers whispering things to you. It really does take maturity to go through all that and she’s only 24.

Thanks for that post! As I said above, in the end, Tyler was showing her a new way to expect to be treated in relationship. He showed her in actions that a good ‘ Christian’  is more than reciting bible verses and can be someone that keeps their word and is truthful and respectful, empowering and understanding  this was a very dramatic change for her and it took her a while to start believing it. And truly, I think Tyler is a rare breed of a guy. He is not perfect but he is certainly charismatic and his true heart and class has been shining bright on our screen, I feel very grateful for knowing just a tiny part of his story. He is up to great things...I said it before and am not gonna back down now, especially if he continues to keep his head above the swarming pool of superficial influencers that will want to associate themselves with him to catch some his glorious rays.

bluwavz wrote:I think Hannah doesn't get enough empathy. Surely most of us can relate to picking a POS and choosing to ignore red flags? It's not like any of the guys this season saw the red flags in Jed either and they actually lived with him and knew him better than Hannah did. She's had her immature moments this season but at least with her I can see potential to learn and grow. She took the high road last night when she could've easily roasted Jed and had the majority of viewers cheering her on. I wish I could see the same potential in Jed but seeing what comments he chose to like about Hannah just make me think he was FOS last night.

I love when you post dear Blu! It’s a rare treat! I cannot agree with you more, and have been feeling distressed by some of the very harsh comments and critics that some post here. It really made me uncomfortable to read for example how hilarious it is that Hannah fell in the street of Crete, en route to the FRC
I can respect other people’s opinion, but am I expecting too much to want some decency in expressing those? She is far from perfect but she is not anywhere near the level of wrong that we have seen with Jed and Luke. There is difference between someone who makes one or several mistakes, like Hannah, and someone who PURPOSELY lie, manipulate others and things that are said, repeatedly misrepresent themselves and others, and demean your own feelings or actions, like both of those guys did. They took away a lot of Hannah’s true ability to choose safely and effectively the best partner for her.
I do hope she has learned not only about a new possible relationship model but also to choose wisely who she associate with through this BN world.
JMO

Billysmom wrote:IMHO she's not shown herself to be arrogant or uncaring....she's actually pretty humble and very generous with her love. She screwed up, basing her final choices on some past paradigms that she's probably only recently identified. She hurt him, but she also hurt herself. Her goal is not to hurt but to love and be loved fiercely. The earth has to crack for seeds to be able to sprout and grow...so IMO Hannah's heartbreak is fertile ground in which she and Tyler can grow something really fruitful. He was genuinely crazy about her. If he can be patient with her -if- then blessings on both of them. Jmo. But if he feels she cannot give him her whole heart, then yes, he would be right to stay only friends. He will need to listen to his heart/gut. She will need to be 1000% honest with him every step! which I think she is capable if being. 

My DH always said he had to go thru a few heartbreaks before he would be able to fully appreciate someone like me. (Eta not that I'm a Tyler, just counter to his usual type) Glad I didn't throw him away prematurely for that!!! As Tyler has written somewhere, it's all in gods timing.  Jmo

It seems to me that Tyler saw something in Hannah from the very beginning that met a need in his life. He has explained how he failed in his only romantic experience because he only took and didn't give back, and that he is bound and determined that he will not fail in his marriage, and IMO it's perhaps that Hannah's desire to love fiercely is what he saw. And strange as this might be, Hannah "proved" her ability to love fiercely by how she felt about Jed. Unfortunately (for Hannah - and Tyler) Jed did not return that love; she was wrong and made a bad choice. Love is not just feelings - feelings are surprisingly easy to find but also fleeting and surprisingly easy to lose. Who we love is as much a choice as it is a feeling. If Hannah has that ability to kindle those feelings (as she has sort of proved in her choice to love Jed) then she also has the ability to choose to love Tyler. IMO Tyler has proven one thing to himself - that he is capable of putting someone else first - even ahead of his own happiness. If Hannah chooses to love Tyler she could just be that someone who really can fulfill that need he has after all.

Food for thought

@Lucas15 What did you think of their body language when on the couch? Also, form you post, it seems you listened or saw his podcast with Nick. What did you think of his body language there when Nick suggested Hannah have another season as the bachelorette?

@Astrobach

I'm not going to quote your whole post but can I say





I will add that I did not know Hannah at all going into this season. I watched 1 episode of Colton's season... the finale and she was already gone. But I have seen a tremendous amount of growth between that first night and yesterday. She made a lot of mistakes throughout the process although she was true to who she was. The end of the process we all know was her biggest mistake but it might just have been the major catalyst in her metamorphosis.

The one thing she is saying in her interviews that I feel is the most important thing of this whole process with her is that she has found the forever love of herself.

IMO

Doggoneit wrote:@Lucas15 What did you think of their body language when on the couch?  Also, form you post, it seems you listened or saw his podcast with Nick.  What did you think of his body language there when Nick suggested Hannah have another season as the bachelorette?

Planning to post my thoughts later on today - need to get some personal stuff out of the way but I HAVE done SCs and a narrative draft. It was interesting to me and hope it will be thought provoking to y'all.

I did listen to almost of the Viall Files and what I didn't listen to I have read multiple recaps. I found it interesting but not nearly as informative as the Viall Files podcast with Hannah. I haven't watched the video but have it bookmarked to go through - especially Tyler's reactions to Nick's suggestion of Hannah 2.

At this point, in general, I think I have more interest in Tyler whereas before the finale I had more interest in Hannah. I guess to me it's almost a given that Hannah wants to get back with Tyler and that Tyler holds the keys to if / when that will / won't happen.