Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Media - SM - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #8

albean99 wrote:Luke came across as very rude and controlling to me. First he said if she had slept with one or two guys to tell him and he'd leave. Then he backed down on that yet it still came across as very judgmental. The whole "you owe me..." just made it all worse. To me it’s not as much about differences in religious beliefs, but in how Hannah (and women in general) wants to be treated. JMO

Chgohighlife wrote:@HEA
I will not disagree with your characterization of Hannah because you are right; she had no right to expose Peter as she did, she was beyond angry and out of control. Fact is we did not see the total exchange and it was edited poorly but, intentionally so. However, Hannah is not without blame. IMO She was wrong on many levels and I have said that many times. I do not find her smart or classy or even right, most of the time.

Luke exhibits behavior I hate to see in anyone. There is no special knowledge required to know and understand that sex before/outside marriage is not sanctioned period by Christians north, south, east or west. I have known good men of all faiths, ages 20-100 throughout my whole life. I know none who would find Hannah B’s comments acceptable, especially on national tv. What she said made no sense in the context of respect for a devout Christian man. Luke’s purported belief is not a mystery or unusual but IMO it’s not the point because it’s not why people dislike him, at all. He’s clearly a hypocrite as indicated by the fact that he tossed his beliefs aside for more screen time and another attempt to wed this woman who told him in no uncertain terms that they were unequally yoked and his beliefs meant nothing to her. Then, she asked him to leave.

IMO Anyone who watched all the episodes should know why she hit the ceiling when he told her she “owed” him. It’s because she had already stupidly and foolishly turned her entire season over to him. It took her till that point to understand that she should have sent him home week one. That everything the other men had tried to tell her about Luke was true and she had been duped by a poorly constructed act and he was not who he pretended to be. IMO he was just a control freak attempting to use the Bible and her faith to control her and get his way. This is very apparent to Luke detractors. IMO We don’t allow him to hide behind his faith because it is clear to his detractors and to Hannah that he is not governed by faith but, by his excessive pride.  The anger she directs at Luke is the frustration and disappointment in herself she felt for being so gullible and easily manipulated. She is really angry with herself and she should be because she gave Luke too much power and her season is almost as much about him, as her.  All IMO.

Chgohighlife wrote:@HEA
I will not disagree with your characterization of Hannah because you are right; she had no right to expose Peter as she did, she was beyond angry and out of control. Fact is we did not see the total exchange and it was edited poorly but, intentionally so. However, Hannah is not without blame. IMO She was wrong on many levels and I have said that many times. I do not find her smart or classy or even right, most of the time.

Luke exhibits behavior I hate to see in anyone. There is no special knowledge required to know and understand that sex before/outside marriage is not sanctioned period by Christians north, south, east or west. I have known good men of all faiths, ages 20-100 throughout my whole life. I know none who would find Hannah B’s comments acceptable, especially on national tv. What she said made no sense in the context of respect for a devout Christian man. Luke’s purported belief is not a mystery or unusual but IMO it’s not the point because it’s not why people dislike him, at all. He’s clearly a hypocrite as indicated by the fact that he tossed his beliefs aside for more screen time and another attempt to wed this woman who told him in no uncertain terms that they were unequally yoked and his beliefs meant nothing to her. Then, she asked him to leave.

IMO Anyone who watched all the episodes should know why she hit the ceiling when he told her she “owed” him. It’s because she had already stupidly and foolishly turned her entire season over to him. It took her till that point to understand that she should have sent him home week one. That everything the other men had tried to tell her about Luke was true and she had been duped by a poorly constructed act and he was not who he pretended to be. IMO he was just a control freak attempting to use the Bible and her faith to control her and get his way. This is very apparent to Luke detractors. IMO We don’t allow him to hide behind his faith because it is clear to his detractors and to Hannah that he is not governed by faith but, by his excessive pride.  The anger she directs at Luke is the frustration and disappointment in herself she felt for being so gullible and easily manipulated. She is really angry with herself and she should be because she gave Luke too much power and her season is almost as much about him, as her.  All IMO.

HEA wrote:@Chgohighlife happy Sunday to you too

I listened few times and I did not hear him saying anything rude to her, or didn’t attacked her. He said that they spoke about purity before marriage... not a new subject then..... and he wanted confirmation with her own words, face to face, that she did not sleep with any of the guys... BECAUSE his beliefs were that he did not have sex since he found Jesus (2 years +/-) and he expected his future fiancé to believe the same.

Not verbatim but the essential is here.

She twisted it that he shamed her. He didn’t. He didn’t say: you are a s***. He was shocked and that was purposely said for shocking him that she F*** in the windmill... with no care whatsoever what Peter would think that it was shared on national TV.

SHE took it that way because she knew perfectly well that southern baptists are very strict regarding purity before marriage and she got mad about it.

Yes nobody should judge her. Yes only Jesus will. Yes it is her body. Yes she can do whatever she wants.

But in the process, she did hurt Peter. She did hurt voluntarily Luke. She didn’t follow Jesus commandments (not my words it is said many times in the Bible) She did not respect his values but expected that he would accept and be fine that she slept with guys few days before a potential proposal because she was free to do it. F*** the consequences and F*** if anyone was upset in the process. Facts.

Selfish. Me me me. We shall call her MeHannah ... the same way we used to call DeAnna.

I disagree. Both were excessive imo. But blaming only Luke is unfair.

I believe he was 100% convinced she was in love with him. She literally pull a bullet in his mega bubble. Him or prods doesn’t matter. He was shocked beyond words because he realized FINALLY that Hannah was not the ideal perfect girl he thought she was. And this is why he couldn’t leave. He was just frozen in shock. We can clearly see it when she yelled him to leave and when he tried to speak she yelled again and again... giving the last bullet telling him she F*** in the windmill.

That is not an adult conversation but an angry woman who found the right words to hurt a man who said early on he fell in love with.

So yes. It was very unfortunate that Luke came on this show for her. Unfortunate that he was crazy to create this perfect woman before stepping at ep1. Unfortunate that they did not have much time to speak in depth about how they practice their religion daily. Unfortunate that we saw only the worse of edited Luke. Unfortunate that Hannah thought of herself as Queen Hannah and the contestants as her peasants to please her, love her, worship her, put her on a pedestal... regardless of their struggles, feelings, jealousy and all.

But that is the beast of the show. It was her journey... and damn the consequences after all.

Yes I defend Luke but only on a spiritual side. I do not like his personality much. But I know very well where he is coming from his baptist community. Been in very very identical community. We have to live it to understand. And this is why I find it difficult to see him an evil person to burn alive. He is not. I found him a complete alien living with another complete different species. None of them are bad or better, just impossible to understand each other.

I wish them both peace and harmony and happiness. They are human being with good and bad trying their best to follow Jesus words. Whatever they do or say, BOTH, it is their choice, their life.

My opinion which is as good as any on this board, just in the minority.  

Chgohighlife wrote:~snipped

 Luke’s purported belief is not a mystery or unusual but IMO it’s not the point because it’s not why people dislike him, at all. He’s clearly a hypocrite as indicated by the fact that he tossed his beliefs aside for more screen time and another attempt to wed this woman who told him in no uncertain terms that they were unequally yoked and his beliefs meant nothing to her. Then, she asked him to leave.

IMO Anyone who watched all the episodes should know why she hit the ceiling when he told her she “owed” him. It’s because she had already stupidly and foolishly turned her entire season over to him. It took her till that point to understand that she should have sent him home week one. That everything the other men had tried to tell her about Luke was true and she had been duped by a poorly constructed act and he was not who he pretended to be. IMO he was just a control freak attempting to use the Bible and her faith to control her and get his way. This is very apparent to Luke detractors. IMO We don’t allow him to hide behind his faith because it is clear to his detractors and to Hannah that he is not governed by faith but, by his excessive pride.  The anger she directs at Luke is the frustration and disappointment in herself she felt for being so gullible and easily manipulated. She is really angry with herself and she should be because she gave Luke too much power and her season is almost as much about him, as her.  All IMO.

FLChica wrote:

Chgohighlife wrote:~snipped

 Luke’s purported belief is not a mystery or unusual but IMO it’s not the point because it’s not why people dislike him, at all. He’s clearly a hypocrite as indicated by the fact that he tossed his beliefs aside for more screen time and another attempt to wed this woman who told him in no uncertain terms that they were unequally yoked and his beliefs meant nothing to her. Then, she asked him to leave.

IMO Anyone who watched all the episodes should know why she hit the ceiling when he told her she “owed” him. It’s because she had already stupidly and foolishly turned her entire season over to him. It took her till that point to understand that she should have sent him home week one. That everything the other men had tried to tell her about Luke was true and she had been duped by a poorly constructed act and he was not who he pretended to be. IMO he was just a control freak attempting to use the Bible and her faith to control her and get his way. This is very apparent to Luke detractors. IMO We don’t allow him to hide behind his faith because it is clear to his detractors and to Hannah that he is not governed by faith but, by his excessive pride.  The anger she directs at Luke is the frustration and disappointment in herself she felt for being so gullible and easily manipulated. She is really angry with herself and she should be because she gave Luke too much power and her season is almost as much about him, as her.  All IMO.

Because this is the media thread, I'll touch on a few of the highlighted points as it relates to Luke's determination to gain notoriety by promoting his faith on national tv. Mike Robertson, ministry leader at Luke's church was quoted in the Gainsville Times: "He wants to share his faith on national tv. He believes God has given him this opportunity to go out there and he's praying for opportunities." 

I have no problem with Luke or anyone else declaring their faith, but I'm saddened by his warped portrayal of Christian values. Perhaps Luke has seen how successful Sean Lowe has been parlaying his stint on the Bachelor into dozens of tv show appearances. But Sean was quite a bit more mature in his faith than Luke and didn't lie, manipulate, demoralize or attempt to control the women on his season. 

Luke's brother Mike and SIL Hannah have admitted they follow spoiler accounts  hoping to help Luke prepare for his appearance on the show. Mike complained in various media sources that it wasn't fair for other eliminated contestants to appear on GMA when Luke wasn't invited to appear. Mike also admitted during his Fox interview that Luke wanted to use the Bachelorette as a platform to share his views on faith with the nation. Prideful much? IMO of course. It's no surprise to me that Hannah twisted off on Luke when she finally realized he was exactly the man others had told her he'd shown himself to be. IMO.
https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/life/gainesville-resident-luke-parker-to-be-on-upcoming-season-of-the-bachelorette-in-may/

SarahD wrote:

FLChica wrote:

Chgohighlife wrote:~snipped

 Luke’s purported belief is not a mystery or unusual but IMO it’s not the point because it’s not why people dislike him, at all. He’s clearly a hypocrite as indicated by the fact that he tossed his beliefs aside for more screen time and another attempt to wed this woman who told him in no uncertain terms that they were unequally yoked and his beliefs meant nothing to her. Then, she asked him to leave.

IMO Anyone who watched all the episodes should know why she hit the ceiling when he told her she “owed” him. It’s because she had already stupidly and foolishly turned her entire season over to him. It took her till that point to understand that she should have sent him home week one. That everything the other men had tried to tell her about Luke was true and she had been duped by a poorly constructed act and he was not who he pretended to be. IMO he was just a control freak attempting to use the Bible and her faith to control her and get his way. This is very apparent to Luke detractors. IMO We don’t allow him to hide behind his faith because it is clear to his detractors and to Hannah that he is not governed by faith but, by his excessive pride.  The anger she directs at Luke is the frustration and disappointment in herself she felt for being so gullible and easily manipulated. She is really angry with herself and she should be because she gave Luke too much power and her season is almost as much about him, as her.  All IMO.

Because this is the media thread, I'll touch on a few of the highlighted points as it relates to Luke's determination to gain notoriety by promoting his faith on national tv. Mike Robertson, ministry leader at Luke's church was quoted in the Gainsville Times: "He wants to share his faith on national tv. He believes God has given him this opportunity to go out there and he's praying for opportunities." 

I have no problem with Luke or anyone else declaring their faith, but I'm saddened by his warped portrayal of Christian values. Perhaps Luke has seen how successful Sean Lowe has been parlaying his stint on the Bachelor into dozens of tv show appearances. But Sean was quite a bit more mature in his faith than Luke and didn't lie, manipulate, demoralize or attempt to control the women on his season. 

Luke's brother Mike and SIL Hannah have admitted they follow spoiler accounts  hoping to help Luke prepare for his appearance on the show. Mike complained in various media sources that it wasn't fair for other eliminated contestants to appear on GMA when Luke wasn't invited to appear. Mike also admitted during his Fox interview that Luke wanted to use the Bachelorette as a platform to share his views on faith with the nation. Prideful much? IMO of course. It's no surprise to me that Hannah twisted off on Luke when she finally realized he was exactly the man others had told her he'd shown himself to be. IMO.

I agree with both of you. That's why I can never defend Luke's spirituality because I never saw it.  He trumps himself as a Christian but his behavior and his manner of expecting someone to agree and comply with his beliefs is really off-putting. As someone said before, His manner of Christisnity is like the Pharisees who are primarily hypocrites.  He makes himself appear holy and everyone else who do not share his beliefs be damned.

He intended to use his platform to share his faith but at the rate of hate towards him, I don't think he did his faith any favors.  
https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/life/gainesville-resident-luke-parker-to-be-on-upcoming-season-of-the-bachelorette-in-may/