Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Media - SM - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #7

RS was the one who said it. I was a happy camper until he changed the spoiler to Jed F1. And even then I still kept the hope alive and as crazy as some might think i feel like it was Tyler all along despite the whirlwind this season has turned into. Bracing for the intense ending and hoping for a happy ending for Ty and his Queen.

sosleepy wrote:

Chgohighlife wrote:

suzq wrote:She was feeling a Jed that doesn't exist.

Not necessarily. All we know is he lied by omission. He never admitted he had a girlfriend of a big ole four months duration. We don’t know how he felt about Hannah. He was in the BN Bubble with Hannah almost as long as he was dating Hayley but, in a much more artificially romantic setting and of all the 30 guys she had to choose from, Jed is the only one she told she was falling in love with him.  There is a lot to this story we do not know. Hannah is an intensely emotional and physical girl. All we really know IMO  is she is stubborn (see Luke P relationship) and when someone tries to make her do something she’s not sure she wants to do, she fights back with a vengeance. I’m not willing to say she did not know Jed at all. Only that she didn’t realize being engaged to him would be embarrassing and people would likely not respect that decision so she needed to break up with him. IMO that’s all we truly know.

Many, many, many, many men have very secret loving relationships their wives, mothers of their children, friends, siblings, parents, colleagues know nothing about, sometimes for years. I wouldn’t say none of those people ever knew him because they didn’t know about his girlfriend. All IMO.

This is a pretty big assumption. Jed’s lie by omission is pretty major, considering his lie directly effected  someone who was hoping to get engaged and possibly married out of this. How could Hannah ever trust him again? Trust is the foundation of any relationship. The cornerstone. Jed ruined that trust before their real relationship ever took off, and on top of it, he stole her ability to find trust and love with someone else. He ruined this for her.  So to say she only dumped him because of the embarrassment of it all is quite problematic to me. We will have to see what she actually has to say about it, but my guess is that once that trust was gone... she was pretty sad and unhappy almost from the ready.

One question: where did the notion that Hayley was hoping to get engaged and possibly married come from? After knowing this man for four months that is a HUGE assumption, even if they discussed it and does she even claim they did discuss it because I never heard her say that and it just sounds like a daydream, IMO.
I get the Jed is a scumbag narrative but, I’m just trying to separate the vitriol from the facts.

Chgohighlife wrote:

sosleepy wrote:

Chgohighlife wrote:

suzq wrote:She was feeling a Jed that doesn't exist.

Not necessarily. All we know is he lied by omission. He never admitted he had a girlfriend of a big ole four months duration. We don’t know how he felt about Hannah. He was in the BN Bubble with Hannah almost as long as he was dating Hayley but, in a much more artificially romantic setting and of all the 30 guys she had to choose from, Jed is the only one she told she was falling in love with him.  There is a lot to this story we do not know. Hannah is an intensely emotional and physical girl. All we really know IMO  is she is stubborn (see Luke P relationship) and when someone tries to make her do something she’s not sure she wants to do, she fights back with a vengeance. I’m not willing to say she did not know Jed at all. Only that she didn’t realize being engaged to him would be embarrassing and people would likely not respect that decision so she needed to break up with him. IMO that’s all we truly know.

Many, many, many, many men have very secret loving relationships their wives, mothers of their children, friends, siblings, parents, colleagues know nothing about, sometimes for years. I wouldn’t say none of those people ever knew him because they didn’t know about his girlfriend. All IMO.

This is a pretty big assumption. Jed’s lie by omission is pretty major, considering his lie directly effected  someone who was hoping to get engaged and possibly married out of this. How could Hannah ever trust him again? Trust is the foundation of any relationship. The cornerstone. Jed ruined that trust before their real relationship ever took off, and on top of it, he stole her ability to find trust and love with someone else. He ruined this for her.  So to say she only dumped him because of the embarrassment of it all is quite problematic to me. We will have to see what she actually has to say about it, but my guess is that once that trust was gone... she was pretty sad and unhappy almost from the ready.

One question: where did the notion that Hayley was hoping to get engaged and possibly married come from? After knowing this man for four months that is a HUGE assumption, even if they discussed it and does she even claim they did discuss it because I never heard her say that and it just sounds like a daydream, IMO.
I get the Jed is a scumbag narrative but, I’m just trying to separate the vitriol from the facts.

What in the who, what now? I never said Haley was hoping to get engaged to Jed. Never said that. Hannah was hoping to get engaged to someone from the show though. I was referring to Hannah.

sosleepy wrote:

Chgohighlife wrote:

sosleepy wrote:

Chgohighlife wrote:

suzq wrote:She was feeling a Jed that doesn't exist.

Not necessarily. All we know is he lied by omission. He never admitted he had a girlfriend of a big ole four months duration. We don’t know how he felt about Hannah. He was in the BN Bubble with Hannah almost as long as he was dating Hayley but, in a much more artificially romantic setting and of all the 30 guys she had to choose from, Jed is the only one she told she was falling in love with him.  There is a lot to this story we do not know. Hannah is an intensely emotional and physical girl. All we really know IMO  is she is stubborn (see Luke P relationship) and when someone tries to make her do something she’s not sure she wants to do, she fights back with a vengeance. I’m not willing to say she did not know Jed at all. Only that she didn’t realize being engaged to him would be embarrassing and people would likely not respect that decision so she needed to break up with him. IMO that’s all we truly know.

Many, many, many, many men have very secret loving relationships their wives, mothers of their children, friends, siblings, parents, colleagues know nothing about, sometimes for years. I wouldn’t say none of those people ever knew him because they didn’t know about his girlfriend. All IMO.

This is a pretty big assumption. Jed’s lie by omission is pretty major, considering his lie directly effected  someone who was hoping to get engaged and possibly married out of this. How could Hannah ever trust him again? Trust is the foundation of any relationship. The cornerstone. Jed ruined that trust before their real relationship ever took off, and on top of it, he stole her ability to find trust and love with someone else. He ruined this for her.  So to say she only dumped him because of the embarrassment of it all is quite problematic to me. We will have to see what she actually has to say about it, but my guess is that once that trust was gone... she was pretty sad and unhappy almost from the ready.

One question: where did the notion that Hayley was hoping to get engaged and possibly married come from? After knowing this man for four months that is a HUGE assumption, even if they discussed it and does she even claim they did discuss it because I never heard her say that and it just sounds like a daydream, IMO.
I get the Jed is a scumbag narrative but, I’m just trying to separate the vitriol from the facts.

What in the who, what now? I never said Haley was hoping to get engaged to Jed. Never said that. Hannah was hoping to get engaged to someone from the show though. I was referring to Hannah.

Well, clearly it’s time for me to go to bed. G’night.

So I just read spoilers from MTA on IG. Hannah’s explanation for keeping Luke was she had a lot of insecurities being the Bachelorette and Luke on the first night was the one showing he was very into her so she couldn’t let it go. I’m not sure I’m satisfied with it keeping him all the way to the end.

Here’s my thoughts on this. I think her insecurities played a huge role in her getting manipulated by trash and garbage (ie, Luke and Jed) because they’re the ones who gave her super attention as those two are acting like competing, then Peter and Tyler who both took time to warm up had no chance. Given on night 1, Luke was so into her while Tyler did not even talk to her, could her insecurities have played out in her first impression of these two that she struggled to shake it off. Meaning, she probably couldn’t shake off that Tyler is not that into her and that’s why she has all these doubts on him.

If Hannah still has all these insecurities, why the hell is she thinking she's ready to marry?

And I’m thinking, because of what happened with Jed, it may add to her insecurities that the hope of her making a bold move to reach out to Tyler to try again, that may not happen at all.

SarahD wrote:So I just read spoilers from MTA on IG. Hannah’s explanation for keeping Luke was she had a lot of insecurities being the Bachelorette and Luke on the first night was the one showing he was very into her so she couldn’t let it go. I’m not sure I’m satisfied with it keeping him all the way to the end.

Here’s my thoughts on this. I think her insecurities played a huge role in her getting manipulated by trash and garbage (ie, Luke and Jed) because they’re the ones who gave her super attention as those two are acting like competing, then Peter and Tyler who both took time to warm up had no chance.  Given on night 1, Luke was so into her while Tyler did not even talk to her, could her insecurities have played out in her first impression of these two that she struggled to shake it off.  Meaning, she probably couldn’t shake off that Tyler is not that into her and that’s why she has all these doubts on him.

If Hannah still has all these insecurities, why the hell is she thinking she's ready to marry?

And I’m thinking, because of what happened with Jed, it may add to her insecurities that the hope of her making a bold move to reach out to Tyler to try again, that may not happen at all.

But that last sentence can’t be right: she IS reaching out to him via her actions and flirting on sm. It’s very noticeable and can’t be ignored for me. So maybe he’s already given or is giving her that super level of attention she needs

How many leads had wonderful physical lovely relationships with their F2 but never fell in love?

Great on paper etc.

Starting with Trista and Charlie... and all the bachelorettes after her.

Hannah is no exception. Tyler and Peter seems great on paper but Hannah did not feel any “in love” emotion for weeks. And now that the bubble has busted, with no SHV obviously, thinking that she made a rebound with Tyler is IMO totally utopia.

There are reasons why Tyler made sure we tracked him, or maybe not. However, maybe he remains a good friend with a girl he had (past tense) feelings for, a guy who IMO had sex with, and seeing her and Jed in such media tornado, he tries to show his support the best his contract allows him. I personally didn’t see in love with Tyler but a physical attraction confirmed by Hannah and probably a nice sweet guy to be around. Friend status means time and knowing each other inside and out with all the glory ugly funny details. I do not think Tyler and Hannah ever reached this level of mutual understanding...  like any other guy, including Jed. Only time allows it IMO

Sorry not sorry but I do not believe one bit that Hannah changed her mind for Tyler. He was not the one she was interested outside physical. Tyler was not the one she wanted to marry when she accepted the proposal. She literally forced him to share about himself at episode 8!! Because the only things she did with Tyler was kissing or activities.... which is typical F2 or F3.

There is a reason why couples in this franchise rarely marry or even remain together IMO... they do not know each other enough with the short time given. The F1 has probably the most time with less activities to talk and focus and time in GD and cocktails because regardless everything, the lead knows from day 1 who she is the most  attracted. Human nature will focus on 1 guy. Here it was Jed but she forced her Christian  mind to think Luke was maybe the one meant to be IMO.

Tyler seems a great guy but he is like most contestants. He just seems to reach more women in the physical department and his kids charity is definitely a bonus. AND his relationship with his dad means that he is eligible to apply to Gawd status IMO :

Ok. Teasing. But as a viewer, I do not know much. I had to go on their IG to know a bit more. But as individuals personal perks, good bad and ugly? I know nothing. It is all superficial and based on visual and perception and assumptions. I like Tyler and his (edited) IG. I would not mind seeing him kissing 25 girls for few weeks on my TV. But I hope he doesn’t. I wish him success in acting or modeling or whatever career he wants in NYC where he seems to have made his new home.

With the return in reality and outside the bubble must be difficult. Either SM likes you or hates you. Either the couple remains strong and adversity reinforce their feelings (thinking jojo and Jordan.... Rachel and Bryan...) either they fake for while and breakup within few months or weeks. These days, I will call a miracle if the couple stays together over a year. Yes we know few but overall we know more who just didn’t. Social media is a bleach IMO. I just cannot imagine how awful it must be to be stalked everywhere public or IG, be insulted for weeks, have the family ridiculed etc. ... but on the other hand, if SM adores the couple... Funny how it is all about numbers. SM Majority do IMO influence a lot the fate of the future couple. Because at the end of the day, nobody is perfect, nobody is a saint or a devil, nobody can judge people they never met in person, nobody should anyway. As I say, SM is a real bleach.

I read many interviews from contestants after the show and they seem to say the same thing. Edits edits edits. Fun experience, mostly frustration to share the same space for weeks. Nice impact on the number of their followers... except when they were edited to be the villain. Many were very emotionally affected and probably IMO professionally.

So either a contestant is lucky to pick the nice guy card or unlucky to pick the villain card. But when SM come and mix this... then it is a mess and the season for me is spoiled.

Note... I appreciate the IG resumed here by members. TYVM

My opinion as usual.

Chgohighlife wrote:
snipped
One question: where did the notion that Hayley was hoping to get engaged and possibly married come from? After knowing this man for four months that is a HUGE assumption, even if they discussed it and does she even claim they did discuss it because I never heard her say that and it just sounds like a daydream, IMO.
I get the Jed is a scumbag narrative but, I’m just trying to separate the vitriol from the facts.

IIRC she either said (most likely on the RS podcast because that's the most detailed and unedited account) or was quoted (in one of the several tabloid stories based an an interview with her) that Jed would sometimes say to her that they would get married someday. I'll put this as JMHO or IIRC unless / until I can find the source for it but while my memory isn't clear on where / when, the "what" is quite clear to me.

Do I believe he meant what he said? No way - that was just his way to keep Haley dangling on a string - he played Haley and she never realized she was being played until he ghosted her. But IMO she did have reason to believe that was what Jed wanted.

Chgohighlife wrote:

suzq wrote:She was feeling a Jed that doesn't exist.

Not necessarily. All we know is he lied by omission. He never admitted he had a girlfriend of a big ole four months duration. We don’t know how he felt about Hannah. He was in the BN Bubble with Hannah almost as long as he was dating Hayley but, in a much more artificially romantic setting and of all the 30 guys she had to choose from, Jed is the only one she told she was falling in love with him.  There is a lot to this story we do not know. Hannah is an intensely emotional and physical girl. All we really know IMO  is she is stubborn (see Luke P relationship) and when someone tries to make her do something she’s not sure she wants to do, she fights back with a vengeance. I’m not willing to say she did not know Jed at all. Only that she didn’t realize being engaged to him would be embarrassing and people would likely not respect that decision so she needed to break up with him. IMO that’s all we truly know.

Many, many, many, many men have very secret loving relationships their wives, mothers of their children, friends, siblings, parents, colleagues know nothing about, sometimes for years. I wouldn’t say none of those people ever knew him because they didn’t know about his girlfriend. All IMO.

Chgohighlife wrote:I’m sorry but, IMO I just can’t imagine Hannah B making the “safe choice”. Nothing about her is safe. She is the free-est, boldest, most charming, wildest and physically demonstrative bachelorette we’ve ever seen. IF she picked Jed, she was feeling Jed, at that time. All IMO.

Alanna wrote:

SarahD wrote:So I just read spoilers from MTA on IG. Hannah’s explanation for keeping Luke was she had a lot of insecurities being the Bachelorette and Luke on the first night was the one showing he was very into her so she couldn’t let it go. I’m not sure I’m satisfied with it keeping him all the way to the end.

Here’s my thoughts on this. I think her insecurities played a huge role in her getting manipulated by trash and garbage (ie, Luke and Jed) because they’re the ones who gave her super attention as those two are acting like competing, then Peter and Tyler who both took time to warm up had no chance.  Given on night 1, Luke was so into her while Tyler did not even talk to her, could her insecurities have played out in her first impression of these two that she struggled to shake it off.  Meaning, she probably couldn’t shake off that Tyler is not that into her and that’s why she has all these doubts on him.

If Hannah still has all these insecurities, why the hell is she thinking she's ready to marry?

And I’m thinking, because of what happened with Jed, it may add to her insecurities that the hope of her making a bold move to reach out to Tyler to try again, that may not happen at all.

But that last sentence can’t be right: she IS reaching out to him via her actions and flirting on sm. It’s very noticeable and can’t be ignored for me. So maybe he’s already given or is giving her that super level of attention she needs

Guys can’t read signals. It has to be overt. She needs to ask him because it will be a disaster at the AFR if she asks him and it’s the first time he’ll hear it. Especially in this situation when he’s seen how into Luke she was and then she accepts a proposal from a serial cheater.

It really opened my eyes that she was scared of Tyler as most of you have been saying all along. She went with her safe choice of Luke and Jed because of those insecurities. She chose them because they both were trying to win her and they’re familiar. She might have given off this beastly-I-don’t-give-AF attitude but deep inside she had insecurities just like the rest of us. Out of all four, Tyler is the person she must have felt she had to chase and most of the time, girls are told not to chase guys. Go with the person who loves you more. Jed and Luke gave off that vibe that they love her more because they were early in professing given their hidden agendas.

SarahD wrote:
It really opened my eyes that she was scared of Tyler as most of you have been saying all along. She went with her safe choice of Luke and Jed because of those insecurities. She chose them because they both were trying to win her and they’re familiar. She might have given off this beastly-I-don’t-give-AF attitude but deep inside she had insecurities just like the rest of us. Out of all four, Tyler is the person she must have felt she had to chase and most of the time, girls are told not to chase guys. Go with the person who loves you more. Jed and Luke gave off that vibe that they love her more because they were early in professing given their hidden agendas.

Her saying during the MTA that she kept Luke around because of her insecurities just cemented why I think she went with Jed. I have been saying that Tyler scared her... and I mean because he is unlike any guy she has ever dealt with before. Luke and Jed were more like the guys she had always been around. Jed was safe because this is the type of guy she has always been around and is comfortable with. I do think she cared for him but love... nope, not buying that. I also don't think she was in love with Tyler at this time either but she definitely had some emotions going on within her about him. And, those emotions scared her.

I agree with you that Jed and Luke gave off the "lover her more" vibe. They were willing to vocalize it in the words she wanted to hear "I'm falling in love with you" or "I love you". Tyler vocalized his feelings but not in a way that she heard it. He talked about "us" and things they would do in the future together... but he didn't say "I love you". She wanted to hear the words "love you".

Like everyone else, it ticks me off that TPTB took it so far with Luke. It ticks me off that they didn't intervene at the dinner when he wouldn't leave. When that happened they should have never brought him to the RC, let alone give him a ring. It should not have been left to Hannah and the guys to get him out of there. But I'm not surprised this happened... Hannah asked for their help during their 1-on-1 in Scotland and they just told her "he needed more time, keep talking to him". Then when she did send him home that night, they brought him back. This dumpster fire of a season is all on them.

I have just read up on twitter comments about the MTA filmed last night. It was mentioned that Luke was called off the set by production and then never came back on set. Who knows how nasty they will portray that scenario?
Luke left in anger. etc.

And that Hannah blames Luke for “manipulating her” but also at the same time that she “couldn’t be manipulated by him because she is smarter than him”.
She says she kept Luke on for as long as she did and was played because of her insecurities?
Yet he is blamed for his emotional immaturity?
But she is still so much smarter than him?
And now she apologizes to America for keeping him so long?
As if she couldn’t help it?
And wasn’t in to him during the filming?

If this is true - and we will have to wait and watch to see what spin TPTB actually feed the public on the televised MTA, - then I am really disgusted with her as the Bachelorette.
Own it already girlfriend. You ask your guys to man-up to their flaws and faults and the consequences which THEY have incurred. Woman-up to yours.
Especially since you say you are such a liberated, independent woman.
You say no one owns you. Well at least own yourself.
And if TPTB owned you and your emotions during the filming, be honest about that.
IMO

Thankfully, MANY on Twitter are voicing the same opinions that even though Luke made a bunch of unwise choices, this form of non-stop personally attacking someone is blatant bullying. Uncalled for to this extent.

It was a lose -lose for Luke.
He probably knew MTA was going to be nasty.
If he chose to attend, he would be brutally roasted.
If he stayed away, he would be brutally roasted.
Obviously the contract prevailed and he showed up.
He knew what he was in for THIS time, and yet he stilll decided to go.
That took guts AND courage.


Hopefully when the Jed cheating stuff  comes out, the negative focus on Luke will die down and he will be able to pick up the pieces and move on with his life. A normal life within his normal environment. With his normal family, friends and acquaintances.

Twitter comments also mentioned that ever since Elan left the show, any semblance of genuine care and concern for the people involved on the show has disappeared. They don’t care.

I do hope that Luke has a good support system for the next few weeks.