Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #3

Norcalgal wrote:Based upon what little we've learned about Hannah and her contestants, I feel
OK - getting this thread back on subject:

Hannah's attraction to Luke is what she USED to be attracted to - men who share her deep faith. But after being exposed to a larger world through the Bachelor and Bach'ette, she has gotten to know a wider spectrum of really good men (looking at you Mike, Peter and Tyler) who may share her faith but don't wear it on their sleeve like Luke. This journey for her is more about learning about herself and what is truly important to her than about what she once thought.  Personally, I think the Jed as F1 spoiler is questionable. How can she overcome that family visit? UGH.

She even said that her journey was very transformative for her and she learned a lot ! Love your take on it !

Does anyone think at AFT, Hannah will open up and say (similar to Desiree) - that
she had a "type" (Luke/Jed) and as everyone is saying - it was the safe choice - where
the one that was always in front of her - with flowers - positive encouragement - etc.
was Tyler - as Chris was for Des? Which would open the door - should H & T which
to take a chance moving forward?

^I agree that a lot of parallels can be drawn between her season and Des. They brought in Jason to talk to Arie last year - they should bring in Des to talk to Hannah - especially how to handle the whole 'second choice' storyline.

^ One parallel with Des is that she said she had always been the one who’s love was stronger, so that was normal to her. She wasn’t used to someone like Chris. Sounds familiar. OTOH, JoJo and Rachel felt that their F1 were too good to be true, and feared they might be players, so there is another parallel to Hannah/Tyler.

I believe JoJo (and Becca) are already talking to Hannah (while Rachel talks about her on TV). Maybe Des should reach out too. TPTB should keep out of it, they have screwed her enough.
All JMO.

From reading some posts elsewhere,some points made sort of stuck with me that led to this post. IMO Jed come on the show - as he told Haley - to get exposure as a musician and leave around F5. But I think he changed his plan. Making it to HTD and then (surviving the RC) going forward to FD he may have seriously thought that he could win this and decided to try. He might have looked at it this way:

If I make it to F1 then I'll get even more publicity, a lot more exposure, and someone with a ton of IG followers who can shill and support me while I pursue my music. If I DON'T make it to F1 I will get a lot of sympathy as a heartbroken ex and I can go back to Haley. I can't lose so why not try?

I believe the strongest evidence that Jed is F1 is that he ghosted Haley. If he wasn't F1 IMO he would have gone back to Haley, she would likely have welcomed him with open arms, and the dumpster fire he's now in would never have happened.

Also, at the RC when both Jed and Luke get a rose each, Jed says (in an ITM) (Source):

I got a rose but to be honest it doesn't feel like I got a rose at all. It feels like it was really hard for her to make a decision between me and somebody who's been a complete scumbag through this whole process. I don't want to be in the same category or even close to the same category as him. He's been a constant toxin through every bit of this. And to feel like a toss-up between him and me ... I don't know ... As of right now I'm so unsure about all of this.

What's missing from this statement that might be a lens into Jed? Anything about Hannah - this is all about him and his wounded pride and nothing at all about her.

Lucas15 wrote:From reading some posts elsewhere,some points made sort of stuck with me that led to this post. IMO Jed come on the show - as he told Haley - to get exposure as a musician and leave around F5. But I think he changed his plan. Making it to HTD and then (surviving the RC) going forward to FD he may have seriously thought that he could win this and decided to try. He might have looked at it this way:

If I make it to F1 then I'll get even more publicity, a lot more exposure, and someone with a ton of IG followers who can shill and support me while I pursue my music. If I DON'T make it to F1 I will get a lot of sympathy as a heartbroken ex and I can go back to Haley. I can't lose so why not try?

I believe the strongest evidence that Jed is F1 is that he ghosted Haley. If he wasn't F1 IMO he would have gone back to Haley, she would likely have welcomed him with open arms, and the dumpster fire he's now in would never have happened.

Also, at the RC when both Jed and Luke get a rose each, Jed says (in an ITM) (Source):

I got a rose but to be honest it doesn't feel like I got a rose at all. It feels like it was really hard for her to make a decision between me and somebody who's been a complete scumbag through this whole process. I don't want to be in the same category or even close to the same category as him. He's been a constant toxin through every bit of this. And to feel like a toss-up between him and me ... I don't know ... As of right now I'm so unsure about all of this.

What's missing from this statement that might be a lens into Jed? Anything about Hannah - this is all about him and his wounded pride and nothing at all about her.

IMO this was just a low low point and very revealing in a major red flag way !

i think he was upset at the rose ceremony because he thought their relationship was more solid so he couldn't understand why she'd be torn between what they had and luke. he had told her he loved her, they had a great day date. so i can understand his confusion. i think he didn't quite understand the impact of his family's skepticism on hannah.

in my opinion, his original plan changed because he fell in love with hannah. this show is called a bubble for a reason. i saw their connection from their boston date and it has progressed on his part since imo.

blueblues wrote:^ One parallel with Des is that she said she had always been the one who’s love was stronger, so that was normal to her. She wasn’t used to someone like Chris. Sounds familiar. OTOH, JoJo and Rachel felt that their F1 were too good to be true, and feared they might be players, so there is another parallel to Hannah/Tyler.

I believe JoJo (and Becca) are already talking to Hannah (while Rachel talks about her on TV). Maybe Des should reach out too. TPTB should keep out of it, they have screwed her enough.
All JMO.

Speaking of JoJo, I noticed that she liked Jed's post from last night.

Norcalgal wrote:OK - getting this thread back on subject:

Based upon what little we've learned about Hannah and her contestants, I feel Hannah's attraction to Luke is what she USED to be attracted to - men who share her deep faith. But after being exposed to a larger world through the Bachelor and Bach'ette, she has gotten to know a wider spectrum of really good men (looking at you Mike, Peter and Tyler) who may share her faith but don't wear it on their sleeve like Luke. This journey for her is more about learning about herself and what is truly important to her than about what she once thought.  Personally, I think the Jed as F1 spoiler is questionable. How can she overcome that family visit? UGH.

Jed's HTD at least how it was edited reminded me of Catherine's HTD with Sean. And, similarly, that edit made it appear that Sean was undecided about whether to send Des or Catherine home. I just read somewhere (RS' column?) that Jed's sister Lily posted on IG last night that her conversation with Hannah was much more positive than what was shown.

Lucas15 wrote:From reading some posts elsewhere,some points made sort of stuck with me that led to this post. IMO Jed come on the show - as he told Haley - to get exposure as a musician and leave around F5. But I think he changed his plan. Making it to HTD and then (surviving the RC) going forward to FD he may have seriously thought that he could win this and decided to try. He might have looked at it this way:

If I make it to F1 then I'll get even more publicity, a lot more exposure, and someone with a ton of IG followers who can shill and support me while I pursue my music. If I DON'T make it to F1 I will get a lot of sympathy as a heartbroken ex and I can go back to Haley. I can't lose so why not try?

I believe the strongest evidence that Jed is F1 is that he ghosted Haley. If he wasn't F1 IMO he would have gone back to Haley, she would likely have welcomed him with open arms, and the dumpster fire he's now in would never have happened.

Also, at the RC when both Jed and Luke get a rose each, Jed says (in an ITM) (Source):

I got a rose but to be honest it doesn't feel like I got a rose at all. It feels like it was really hard for her to make a decision between me and somebody who's been a complete scumbag through this whole process. I don't want to be in the same category or even close to the same category as him. He's been a constant toxin through every bit of this. And to feel like a toss-up between him and me ... I don't know ... As of right now I'm so unsure about all of this.

What's missing from this statement that might be a lens into Jed? Anything about Hannah - this is all about him and his wounded pride and nothing at all about her.

Spot on. He didn't change his plan because he fell in love with Hannah. He changed his plan because he's seeng benefits of ending up there in final two men. He wasn't just throwing a tantrum. He was being disrespectful to Hannah because of his pride and ego. As Ben H said, Tyler and Peter would have not acted in the same way as Jed if they were in that position. All JmO.

Sorry to post myself, but wanted to bring this back as it coincide with what @Lucas15  said and I want to update what I was thinking then to now.


POSTED ON JUNE 19 in 1st thread ( could figure how to bring from old post)
About Jed. Here are some thoughts. The guy admitted he was on the show as a platform to get recognized as a musician. Ok. He saw that Hannah was into him, more than he anticipated probably and maybe he did start to feel important or validated. Musicians certainly like that and it goes a long way to help their ego and their sense of accomplishment, however twisted that may seem. So he finds himself contemplating his original plan - to stay in until he’s part of the F5 for maximum exposure - but he also has to make sure he is portrayed WELL, therefore acting like the good guy, doing the things expected to make him look good etc. Including defending Hannah against the ‘ bad guy ‘ of the season. I always noticed that he is one of the most vocal about Luke’s behavior. So in a way, he knows how to recognize the shady behavior...maybe because some of it is HIS own as well. Fast forward to the place where he goes beyond the F5 and Hannah takes him to the hime date. That will be very telling when we see it but he has probably by then developed some feelings for her and yet cannot contemplate getting engaged, yet. He still needs to show what a great guy he is. He has to maintain that same aura that Hannah was attracted to, as we know, she has said that her dream is to be a country singer in Nashville. So she is vicariously feeding into her own ’fairy tale’ story. Something happens at the very end, at the F4 FSD time, in Santorini, it’s time for Hannah to see if he’s ready to propose and he isn’t sure he can get there. ( I.E. he knows he has someone else AND he is conflicted about his image being tarnished if he rejects Hannah.) she storms out because she is pissed and expected that e would be able to commit at that point.
Maybe the instance that CH is talking about having a ring in his pocket could be Jed. Who after much deliberation, chooses to go ahead and risk it as he knows that the benefits of being a final couple are the best outcome possible for his carrer if he has enough feelings to string her along for a while. It may actually have even falling somewhat for her..who knows but all along he has to have had a plan, because if his career and goals. In Nashville at the CMA, we have no indication that Hannah interacted with him...BUT she was in a position to hear a lot of things ABOUT him...like maybe his Male Review job, or even other things like ex. girlfriend. All speculation, but she sure left Nashville REALLY in a hurry without any commitment tat we traced I thought...
So again, some of my ramblings on his strategy going into this show. He probably met some good people and made good friendly connections despite his original plan. But a lot has backfired because of deceptive behavior.

The irony is that he IS getting a LOT of exposure , but not exactly what he intended...karma is a B#@* ...
All MO

this start the new post

So now that we know what we know, with all the Haley’s account and  the multiple sightings of him in bars, drunk, posting and likening various posts that do not lend themselves to an happy engaged guy; and that after the crisis has passed Hannah and Tyler seem to have a very coincidental and phenomenal S/M connection, playlist shared inspiration, having seen the HTD for both Jed and Tyler, the lack of really definitive and confirmed SHV with Jed, the ultra vagueness of RS who is usually spilling with glee all the details for the LCD and FRC at this point, our actual lack of footage on preview of said LCD or FRC...and the list goes on... I do not see any logic in Jed being F1 and all points to Tyler being it. From the start of the spoiler change,  I‘Ve had a hard time reconciling Jed strategy and character with the idea of him being F1 and his post show behavior, all of it, and Tyler's behavior as well. Tyler may be  gracious but the only time he appeared to be distraught was when the scandal exploded... and he immediately stopped his ‘bro’ comment towards Jed. He was shattered and protective of Hannah first and foremost. Which is in character for him, yes, possibly. But he didn’t seem heartbroken or depressed BEFORE the said crisis. So on that level, it’s more logical to me that he was just hiding his game in NYC where it’s much easier to live his life and hide out when necessary with or without Hannah.
Jed is distraught not only because he is getting litterally crucified, but BECAUSE he is not The ‘ engaged z’ guy everyone thought he was. Maybe he thinks that means his conduct is excusable if he was single. Anyhow. I’m now confirming with myself that thinking this way is fitting many more boxes than the other way around, and I’ll continue putting clues together to see where it goes and what are the next pages of this fascinating chapter of Bachelorette.

JMO

yana_bach wrote:^I agree that a lot of parallels can be drawn between her season and Des. They brought in Jason to talk to Arie last year - they should bring in Des to talk to Hannah - especially how to handle the whole 'second choice' storyline.

i have a feeling she has spoken to becca kufrin about this...i also have a feeling the conversation may have been already recorded and will be shown on afr or becca will be on afr - imo