Rachel Lindsay & Bryan Abasolo - Bachelorette 13 - Discussion - #2

coolangel wrote:

zoe06 wrote:

coolangel wrote:I am sorry but the implication that someone might be a racist can stick and have serious negative consequences on someone's life and career. It is not a joke or petty politics on a sh*tshow. IMO Danielle L is a garbage human being for suggesting what she did publicly and Rachel would have joined her there in my eyes had she let this implication stick. By clearing the air, Rachel just proved that she understands that these things are no joke and even though there are many things in her article I disagree with, I commend her for standing up and doing what is right.

All JMO

Agreed, and that's all i have been saying with my post. I respect that fact that she cleared the air IMO, she choose not to let someone that didn't like have the perceptions that she used a racial slur, when she did not. Nothing from anything else she said IMO made her look good, so to me it was not self serving. She only came out of if it more disliked from more people's perception, IMO i still like her  the good and the bad of her as I liked Vanessa the good and the bad of her. IMO Rachel could have let that story hang and that perceprtion of Vanessa hang out there and she didn't no matter how the truth was going ot make her look IMO and I respect her for that.  JMO

ITA! Personally, I think Rachel walked right into some of the criticisms she is getting on SM by including more details than necessary. By saying she was offended by 'aggressive' when she didn't seem offended on the show when Lee said that Kenny was being 'aggressive', she opened up the door for criticism IMO. People are rightly pointing out that Will was the one to school Lee, not Rachel. And the company she keeps doesn't help with the bullying accusations esp. after BIP. I really commend her for clearing the air and confirming that the word was just 'bully' and not a racial slur but I believe she would have saved herself a lot of criticism had she not gotten into details.

All JMO

PS: The most funny thing I found in that article was Rachel's comment of 'Being in the Bachelor mansion is a true test of your character' I personally think it's the opposite and don't judge anyone harshly for what they say/do in that crazy pressure-cooker environment. I am still surprised people don't need extensive therapy after going on the show. I know I would.

Maybe she was offended? She was certainly annoyed by that whole situation IMO. Plus, unlike Will she was at a disadvantage because she only had limited information about what was going on in the mansion. IMO she likely believed Kenny all along but probably didn't want to be judged for acting prematurely. She has clearly stated the pressure she felt from all sides being the first black bachelorette and how her actions and choices would be viewed and IMO I think she was trying to be careful and decided to get to the bottom of the situation by using her lawyer skills. I remember her asking Lee for specific examples of how Kenny was aggressive. After talking with Kenny she eventually concluded Lee's claims were bogus. That need for specific examples reminds me of the ET article where Rachel says she asked Vanessa of examples of how she was being a bully and she couldn't give her any which IMO left her with the thought that perhaps Vanessa's perception was based on a very insidious stereotype that many black women, including myself, have had to deal with. A stereotype that Vanessa repeated to Nick based on, according to Rachel, zero examples. I totally get why Rachel wanted to separate herself from that. Like Lee was trying to bait Kenny I wonder if perhaps Rachel thought Vanessa was trying to bait her? I'm certainly not saying Vanessa is anything like Lee. I don't care for her but I never got that impression at all but stereotypes work because you don't have to be a racist or biased to spread them IMO. Many stereotypes are perpetuated through pure ignorance of the cultural impact. All JMO

Murakamee wrote:Rachel's better than me, because I wouldn't have said or written a word to clarify Dlo's words or defend Vanessa's. Let people think what they want. By now most self-respecting Black adults (myself included) should realize that engaging in efforts such as these are self-defeating and futile. There is no respect to be had in respectability politics. JMO.

Self-respecting black woman here  I think Rachel did the right thing. JMO.

@Tajlena I think we're basically agreeing. She was cornered into it IMO because of DLo's statements. Had DLo never given that AMA, IMO we wouldn't be having this convo. JMO

bleuberry wrote:

Murakamee wrote:Rachel's better than me, because I wouldn't have said or written a word to clarify Dlo's words or defend Vanessa's. Let people think what they want. By now most self-respecting Black adults (myself included) should realize that engaging in efforts such as these are self-defeating and futile. There is no respect to be had in respectability politics. JMO.

Self-respecting black woman here  I think Rachel did the right thing. JMO.

@Tajlena I think we're basically agreeing. She was cornered into it IMO because of DLo's statements. Had DLo never given that AMA, IMO we wouldn't be having this convo. JMO

I agree on both points. Well, all three actually.

@Kashathediva   Thanks! 

@Fangirl26, My post was only in reference to why she is getting SM criticism based on what I read. I think Rachel has every right to be offended by Vanessa's words just as Vanessa has every right to feel bullied if she felt ostracized. There are no universal definitions for these things IMO.

I personally don't care what happened. It's been over a year and both women have moved on. Like @bleuberry said above, had it not been for Danielle L, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I feel bad for both Rachel and Vanessa that they are being subject to criticisms yet again just coz Danielle wanted to extend her 15 mins and stay relevant.

All JMO

Rachel mentions Vanessa couldn't give her any examples of being a bully. Again, like so many have stated, we don't know the whole story. Could there have been an argument, could Rachel have been telling her off, shouting, yelling, asking for examples, and Vanessa walking away from the situation?

That would be a different story compared to not being able to give an example. I can't see anyone calling anyone a bully without reason. Vanessa must have felt she was being treated unfairly by Rachel or whatever the situation was for her to make those comments.

I'm glad Rachel clarified DLo's explanation of extremely derogatory, her words, but at the same time the whole situation is beyond ridiculous IMHO just because DLo decided to give her side of a story she wasn't even involved in.

I'm sorry but I can kind of see how Rachel could be "Aggressive" and a "bully" especially with her squad following her around. JMO.

And if Rachel didnt do anything wrong, she could have simply ignored what Vanessa said.. But she didnt. to me, It seems like Rachel did do something if she had to ask be separated.

I'm in the minority to think DLo's response to this repeating question reasonable. She stated "derogatory" was what she heard, imo, that could likely be what Rachel said to the squad and other casts. Doesn't seem to me she added much to intentionally stir the pot, and the way Rachel responded seems to match what DLo described.

Of course DLo could just reply some BS like "I don't know / I was not there blah blah", but she did say this was what she heard.

IDK. From my POV, not in my wildest dreams would I ever consider the terms bully or aggressive to be derogatory. Jeez. These are adults? Right?
These are the same women who appear not to blink twice at open sexcapades poolside during BIP? Who pose dildo type devices in photos next to each other sleeping?
I think they could deal with these terms, but if not I remember the wise words a playmate's mom told me in kindergarten when the playmate stuck her tongue out at me and told me my barbie's dress was ugly:

Sticks and stones can break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

And if that doesn't work the squad or others can try this one:

I'm rubber and you're glue. Everything bounces off me and sticks to you.

And if that doesn't work a good

neener neener

never hurts.
SMH. 4 yr olds. 5 at the most. **JMO**

peggy0221 wrote:I'm in the minority to think DLo's response to this repeating question reasonable. She stated "derogatory" was what she heard, imo, that could likely be what Rachel said to the squad and other casts. Doesn't seem to me she added much to intentionally stir the pot, and the way Rachel responded seems to match what DLo described.

Of course DLo could just reply some BS like "I don't know / I was not there blah blah", but she did say this was what she heard.

see DLO wasn't there and thats what she should have said. Jasmine was asked baout this by Ashley I and she said there was something but i wasn't there. Christen said the same thing on Afterbuzz they didn't get along but I wasn't there .I think Rachel asked to be seperated because she was offended by the words whether Vanessa knew backstory of AA or not and didn't want it to turn into a Kenny- Lee situationIMO. Which could explain why because of they way she handled it, whether you think she was right or wrong for it, it is why she was sort of hard on Kenny about it with Lee and was mad that he continued to engage with him. IMO She knew Vanessa felt the way she felt and she felt the way she felt and clearly the feelins were bad on both ends and didn't want it to escalate as I saw spice in both women, and have heard of not so great behavior on both theirs ends and not just coming form the Squad. IMO. IMO Rachel has been asked about it before and never mentioned it. Once again no one would be talking about this if DLo had not brought it up and i believe "extremely deragotory" were HER choice words IMO. IMO Rachel didn't have to say that to the cast because its been reported everyone who was left was there, when it happened and it wasn't just her squad Danielle M was left to as this was said have happened in Bimini.

JMO

Not gonna lie, never a fan of Rachel, I can totally see how she described the situation in the worst way possible to her squad, and seeing how, imo, dramatic her squad is, they could added something else to the story, so it became the derogatory version DLo heard.

peggy0221 wrote:Not gonna lie, never a fan of Rachel, I can totally see how she described the situation in the worst way possible to her squad, and seeing how, imo, dramatic her squad is, they could added something else to the story, so it became the derogatory version DLo heard.

IMO, if Rachel had told her squad an inflated version, she would have stuck to it and not have bothered to set the record straight. The fact that she did clarify what happened makes it much more likely D.Lo added the silly. JMO