Rachel Lindsay & Bryan Abasolo - Bachelorette 13 - Discussion - #2

I can understand the reaction to Vanessa's saying Rachel spoke aggressively to her because yes, there is a negative stereotype and connotation towards black people regarding the word. There is a long history of the angry black female and angry black man. So I do get that. 

That being said, I remember some of Rachel's own squad talking about how they loved her but didn't like when Lawyer Rachel came out and I believe one referred to her tone. It might have been Alexis, I'm not sure. So it's possible that that's what Vanessa was referring to. 

Still, like others said, this is Rachel's truth. She felt deeply offended by the situation and is entitled to feel that way. I do think there was some irresponsibility on Danielle's part in how she described the situation, knowing the implications it could create in people's minds.  

Now I will give the benefit of the doubt and say maybe she isn't so bright and so she really didn't realize how much of a life this could take on and what image she would conjure in people's mind by saying a white woman called a black woman a "very derogatory" word. 

That said, now that we know what exactly was said from one of the women involved, I think it's more than time for this to be put to freaking rest. They are not friends, never will be and it's been more than a year. Vanessa and Nick crashed and burned hard and I'm sure there was some schadenfreude by Rachel and company because of that, Rachel is happily engaged to Bryan and it's done. Let's all move the f*ck move on. JMO.

@teamkristina I'm sorry I disagree. You may see it your way. I see it mine.
I don't like being called being angry either. Plain and simple. If I'm not angry, I don't like it either. Regardless of who I am. REGARDLESS.
I am a minority, too and lived in rural America, for quite a while and the best way to be who you are vs who you are aren't is to be who you are.
People are going to believe what they want to regardless of who you are.
Plain and simple. That is not going to change. We can only change ourselves. No one likes to be labeled. NO ONE.
JMOAA

So... Vanessa didn't use a racial slur, but used "aggressive" and adjectives that have long had suggestive racial undertones in American society as far as the "angry black" person conversation and stereotyping. Oh. Well...

I would actually see why Rachel would remove herself from any situation dealing with Vanessa, especially as it pertains to protecting her career, etc. "Bully" was just the end game, it seems. The message Vanessa sent when she called Rachel "aggressive" and whatever else, was pretty clear, imo.

And had Rachel not steered clear of Vanessa and this topic, look what they did to that whole thing this season? This is basically the racial storyline they ran with this season. You don't call independent, strong, powerful POC "aggressive" without just cause, of which, Rachel asked for just cause, and could not get any. So, therefore... You just don't do that.

Having said that, Vanessa is white, and also Canadian, so she may have no clue, and no real basis to understand what she was saying/doing especially because American history is uniquely geared towards certain triggers, but all the same. Honestly, nagl from Vanessa, imo.

But all the same, good on Rachel clarifying, because some of the assumptions being made about Vanessa were too far, given the situation.

theres a huge difference when someone whos african american is called aggressive vs. when someone who's not. Especially the daughter of a federal judge and  an attorney who has worked hard and has a reputation at stake. JMO

@teamkristina until someone explained this(this whole angry topic--I don't even know how to accurately word it without causing offense) earlier in the season to me in pms I honestly had no idea about this whole, entire concept. I am quite sure there are many other cultural issues I am also ignorant.
I am a white woman older than 55. I am educated. That does not mean I know everything. I had never heard of this issue.
Like I said above. The only angry women I have really ever interacted with were angry jewish women. And they weren't any fun either.
Ignorance abounds in many ways. I am not saying this is the case with this situation. IDK.
As a society, its so important to be able to be aware and be willing to educate and help teach each other and on the hand be willing to learn.

As an African American woman, I have been on the receiving end of accusations of being "aggressive" "angry"  a "bully"and even "ghetto" simply for  expressing my opinion freely and/or my displeasure over something just the same as others. I'm a Director at a large marketing firm in NYC and I'm none of those things. It's hurtful, unfair, and it's a bad stereotype of many many black women.  

I also know that not everybody can and will understand it and that's ok too. There are many things that I can not understand because I have not experienced them but I can respect that someone was offended or affected by it.

This speaks to exactly what Will was trying to explain to Lee when he used that word towards Kenny during the season. The history in this country of black people always being referred to as aggressive and why it's offensive.

I don't understand when you call someone aggressive it means they are an angry black woman???? Since when? I have never hear that before. If I say to someone they are being aggressive that means they are in my face and back off. It has nothing to do with colour, sex or whatever.

It means get out of my face. But saying aggressive is kinder than get out of my face. I dont know I dont get it. I'm not going to tip toe around my feelings to make sure I dont offend anyone.

People dont know if a common word has another hidden meaning. Is there a new dictionary I need to buy?

So there are words you cant say to a person of colour that you can say to any other person?

This is crazy and I'm too old to learn a new language. IMO

That's not what anyone is saying one is trying to explain why rachel may have taken offense to it, the same way will tried to explain why Kenny had taken offense to it is all anyone is saying. IMO I like that Rachel cleared up that it wasn't a racial slur as most had thought it might have been from the phrasing that was used. Imo

DLo is such a pot stirrer imo. I thought she made it sound like maybe it was the N word that Vanessa called Rachel. I'm glad Rachel took the time to clear the air. She didn't have to do that. She could've let the public continue to think of the worst of Vanessa. I think DLo's personal motive was to make Vanessa look bad. IMO she has a personal vendetta against Vanessa and her statements about what she recalls happened between Rachel and Vanessa made Vanessa sound like an evil B.

IMO if someone called me aggressive and a bully, I'd try never to interact with that person again to steer clear of any potential conflicts in the future. I'm also glad R cleared up that she made that request to be separated and not that the producers had to keep V away from R because V was attacking R.

nikikass wrote:I don't understand when you call someone aggressive it means they are an angry black woman???? Since when?  I have never hear that before.   If I say to someone they are being aggressive that means they are in my face and back off.  It has nothing to do with colour, sex or whatever.

It means get out of my face.   But saying aggressive is kinder than get out of my face.   I dont know I dont get it.  I'm not going to tip toe around my feelings to make sure I dont offend anyone.  

People dont know if a common word has another hidden meaning.  Is there a new dictionary I need to buy?

So there are words you cant say to a person of colour that you can say to any other person?  

This is crazy and I'm too old to learn a new language.   IMO

See --this is how I always thought. Honestly, I never attributed some of the things that are supposed stereotypes as stereotypes. So it's confusing to me. I feel like I don't have the rule book here.

So just to be clear..  If Vanessa was feeling how she was feeling.

She should have said.  "Get out of my face you f'n B Itch."

But not "you are being aggressive"?

Okay I have heard it all now.   I am done.

Let me be clear i am not condoning anything here.   But lets face it we get angry and we confront the people that are making us angry.  

I just didnt know there are ways to get angry at a Person of colour.  Are we not the same and getting angry is getting angry?