Vanessa Grimaldi & Josh Wolf - Bachelor 21 - Discussion

KayP wrote:It could be said that its weird that Dean and Jared, Nick's close friends are cozying up to Vanessa as well.  I'm glad no lines have been drawn in the sand and Dean and Jared can embrace a friendship with Vanessa and vice versa

Given that Nick and Vanessa have openly stated multiple times that they're on good terms, I don't judge Dean and Jared for embracing a friendship with her. I guess I just wonder where Vanessa is coming from and how Nick feels about it all. I don't know the details about the break-up but I've long suspected that Vanessa was the one who initiated the split (I don't have proof but I feel like I've seen enough hints from both sides to make me feel confident in this theory). Let's just say for a moment that I'm right and that she did in fact break up with Nick...if that's the case then I find it strange that she would then go out of her way to befriend his roommate and his other best Bachelor nation friend--committing to talking to them at least once a week, following them on Instagram, liking/commenting on their photos, etc.-- if she didn't have some sort of ulterior Nick-related motive. To be honest, I think it would be thoughtless and inappropriate for her to seemingly insert herself in his life again if all she wanted to do was join a podcast about dating so that she could talk about her dating life every week with people that are close to her ex-fiance. What would be the point? To rub salt in Nick's wounds? I don't see Vanessa being the vindictive type. Last week on the podcast, she literally cried when talking about how she's scared of jumping into a relationship again because she's afraid of getting hurt and I doubt she was thinking about her mystery man (ie. her non-boyfriend) in that moment. In the past couple of weeks on the podcast, Vanessa has spoken multiple times about the importance of timing and is seemingly open to the notion of people finding their way back to each other (something that she seemed to be against in December when she was on the Almost Famous Podcast--back then she said that she didn't picture herself reconciling things with Nick because she's never been the kind of person who goes back to relationships that have failed in the past). However, she also seems to be obsessed with the love language issue (she brings it up a lot on the podcast) which was seemingly the biggest barrier in her and Nick's relationship. I get the sense that Vanessa would be open to reconciling things with Nick but only if things change and he's more willing to accommodate her love language needs. I do think that by befriending Jared and Dean, Vanessa was maybe hoping that Nick would run into her and maybe they could hash out their issues...but the confusing part about this theory is that, again, Vanessa has made it no secret that she is currently dating someone and has been dating this person for months now. If she was hoping that Nick would pull a Jared and fight for her the way that Jared fought for Ashley when she was with Kevin then I think she shouldn't hold her breath. If Vanessa did break up with Nick like I suspect she did then why would Nick assume that she wants him to steal her away from a guy who is supposedly making her happy in the way that he couldn't? It doesn't make much sense. And not only that but even if Nick did try to win her back under these circumstances, how on earth would it be a good idea for them to restart their relationship by Nick stealing her away from another man when a huge issue on their first go-around had to do with Vanessa essentially stealing Nick from other women (and how they had to deal with complications that arose from that toxic foundation)? I wouldn't want them to reconcile on those terms and I doubt that Nick wants that either. If anything, i think Nick would be willing to reconcile things with Vanessa if she proved to him that she still wants to be with him and no one else. While Vanessa needs assurance that Nick would be willing to accommodate her love language needs, I think Nick needs to know that his heart is safe with her and that they're on the same page in terms of wanting to make the relationship work for the long haul. However, I really don't think that the timing is right for either of them at the moment...and like they have both said in separate podcasts/interviews, timing is everything. JMO

Pardon my ignorance, but what is love language needs?

@Bluejay I am sorry but I disagree with your post. It is not the Nick I know.  I think that Nick broke up with her but still has great respect for her. Her relationship with Jared and Dean I highly doubt that Nick is hurt at all by it . I think the only thing on Nicks mind and has been is his acting career. He has also stated that he does not want to date anyone from the Bach Bubble. The more I saw their personalities after the break up the more I thought that they are just totally different people. I am happy that neither one has said nothing but respect for one another. I just highly doubt that Nick would want to entertain the idea of them getting back together and I truly hope that Vanessa finds her forever JMO

GuardianAngel wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but what is love language needs?

From the podcast, it seems that Vanessa wants/needs a guy who goes out of his way to do sweet things for her and is overly affectionate with her all of the time...and she implies that Nick probably didn't meet her emotional needs in that respect. To be honest, I don't know much about love language but my basic understanding of it is that it's the way in which people show affection and give/receive love and if the love language is different between two people then it's difficult to tap into the full potential of the relationship (ie. the parties might feel like something is missing and/or off). However, that being said, I still believe that context means a lot and given that their relationship was put in a toxic pressure-cooker the whole time, I would imagine that it was difficult for them to focus on making each other happy when they were too busy trying to keep their heads above water. That being said, I don't think that Nick would be oppose to adjusting his love language in order to fulfill her needs if he knew for a fact that she wanted to be with him and was willing to give him the kind of unconditional love and magic that he's been looking for. I just think that it's hard for both Nick and Vanessa to meet in the middle when she's dating someone else--not to mention the fact that they aren't even on speaking terms...and even though I'm sure that building a friendship with Jared and Dean has been helpful in some respect, I doubt they've had any in depth conversations with Vanessa regarding Nick's feelings (especially given that Nick is a fairly proud and private person who probably wouldn't appreciate his friends meddling in his personal affairs). JMO

@Bluejay271 thanks. I appreciate your thoughts, but I don't think for a second Nick has any intention of getting back together with her. I think it's Vanessa's nature to be touchy feely, she does not hesitate showing her affection towards anyone. This IMO is very common with Italians, speaking for myself.

IMO if there's no so called love language from one party, then they aren't feeling it. Some have difficulty expressing their feelings, but I believe if someone is truly in love, they'll let you know. I always thought it was agreed by both of them to split. She was very upset for awhile, but at the same time they always respected each other. She IMO is so very different than Nick. It was great while it lasted.

I also see nothing wrong with her being friends with Jared Dean or the roommate. Just because couples split it doesn't mean they have to sever all ties between the people they are acquainted with as a couple.

If she's gone back to Montreal, it sounds like she doesn't have a permanent residence Visa or any other documentation to stay in California.

whit90 wrote:@Bluejay I am sorry but I disagree with your post. It is not the Nick I know.  I think that Nick broke up with her but still has great respect for her. Her relationship with Jared and Dean I highly doubt that Nick is hurt at all by it . I think the only thing on Nicks mind and has been is his acting career. He has also stated that he does not want to date anyone from the Bach Bubble. The more I saw their personalities after the break up the more I thought that they are just totally different people. I am happy that neither one has said nothing but respect for one another. I just highly doubt that Nick would want to entertain the idea of them getting back together and I truly hope that Vanessa finds her forever JMO

Not from Bach Nation
http://www.flare.com/bachelor/ashley-iaconetti-and-jared-from-bachelor-in-paradise-dating/
However this was an add in (perhaps interpretation) from the article writer rather than a direct quote. I do think Nick would not want to eliminate someone new if intrigued based on affiliation because he has said he himself hopes to not be judged for being on the show. He has never been hypocritical to my knowledge. I also don’t think he has ever limited himself when off the show to alumn so it goes both ways. Kinda neither here nor there - not sought but not out of the realm of possibility.
That being said, I agree that Vanessa will eventually find her prince and sincerely hope she finds someone, perhaps in Montreal, who gives her the life she wants. This is her second major breakup, that we know of, so she should be equipped to move on and be more knowledgeable in finding her Mr. Right.

I totally disagree Vanessa went out of her way to befriend Nick's roommate and his bachelor nation friend. On the first podcast, which I'm sure she was approached to be part of, it was said she had only met Jared once at Carly and Evans wedding and had never met Dean before that day. They only started following one another after the podcast. Thoughtless and inappropriate to insert herself into his life again? Well I'm sure his friends have minds of their own and would be able to tell if her actions were anything but genuine. I think Vanessa is a great addition to the podcast. They needed a female perspective and I like what she brings to the table. The powers that be must of thought so or they wouldn't have hired her.

whit90 wrote:@Bluejay I am sorry but I disagree with your post. It is not the Nick I know.  I think that Nick broke up with her but still has great respect for her. Her relationship with Jared and Dean I highly doubt that Nick is hurt at all by it . I think the only thing on Nicks mind and has been is his acting career. He has also stated that he does not want to date anyone from the Bach Bubble. The more I saw their personalities after the break up the more I thought that they are just totally different people. I am happy that neither one has said nothing but respect for one another. I just highly doubt that Nick would want to entertain the idea of them getting back together and I truly hope that Vanessa finds her forever JMO

First off, I didn't say that I think that Nick is hurt by Dean and Jared's relationship with Vanessa--I'm just curious what he thinks about it given that I genuinely believe that it's a strange situation. I've been following Nick and Vanessa on social media throughout the course of this break-up so believe me when I say that Nick's mind hasn't only been focused on his acting career. With everyone on the Bachelorette board freaking out about Garrett liking horrible posts in the past and suggesting that his social activity says a lot about his character (which I totally agree with), I can tell you that everyday for 2-3 months straight, Nick liked quotes from the poet RM Drake, all of them pertaining to the theme of love, loss, heartbreak and hope for reconciliation in the future. What I also noticed about these posts is that they were passive in nature--quotes about how "if it's real they'll find you no matter how far you go" and clinging to the idea that people are "like boomerangs" and how eventually they will find their way back. I don't know what you mean when you say "it is not the Nick I know" because the Nick I know isn't a passive guy who relies on hope and timing to solve his problems. The Nick I know fights for the things that he loves...unless the things that he loves doesn't reciprocate his feelings and/or didn't want to be with him anymore.

There were other posts too--more notably from the Instagram account "text from your ex". The ones that he liked always followed the same theme: the guy in the scenario would text how much he is still in love with the ex and the girl would always respond in a note of indifference; it was almost as if he liked those posts as a reminder of his own situation. And then there was Nick's words on the first post-break-up interview that he did on the Almost Famous Podcast : when asked if the break-up needed to happen, Nick specifically said "I don't think it needed to happen" and repeatedly said throughout the interview "what can you do?" It wasn't until around the time that Nick was dating January Jones that he stopped liking the RM Drake quotes (or love quotes in general) as frequently...but then one day in March he liked this quote on Instagram: https://twitter.com/rmdrk/status/973010293499539456
He has since liked other quotes that relate to the idea of timing and readiness. He liked the Instagram equivalent of this quote in late March:
https://twitter.com/rmdrk/status/978796147455250432
And then there are the subtle Instagram easter eggs that I noticed over the course of many months. Whether Nick was posting photos/ stories of him wearing the Blue Jays cap or subtly connecting his Instagram captions to Vanessa's from time to time (ie. I remember Vanessa posting a photo of her wearing all denim and shortly after Nick posted a photo with a caption that pointed to the fact that he had to wear denim all of the time, etc), it was clear that he was trying to show her through social media that he was thinking about her (and for the record, Nick liked the RM Drake quotes around the same time that he posted the selfie with the caption "Thinking about you"). Nick thinks about love a lot--and I really don't believe that this caption is simply him talking about his love for New York (but that's my personal opinion):
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiiHC04HGQt/?hl=en&taken-by=nickviall
In the most recent interview that he's done, Nick has said that he's more guarded now when it comes to dating because he still has issues "in here" (he said that while pointing to his heart) and that he relies on hope a lot in regards to his love life. And I argue that like Vanessa, it's clear that he's still deeply affected by the break-up and I think it's quite obvious that he hasn't forgotten about her.

KayP wrote:I totally disagree Vanessa went out of her way to befriend Nick's roommate and his bachelor nation friend.  On the first podcast, which I'm sure she was approached to be part of, it was said she had only met Jared once at Carly and Evans wedding and had never met Dean before that day.  They only started following one another after the podcast.  Thoughtless and inappropriate to insert herself into his life again?  Well I'm sure his friends have minds of their own and would be able to tell if her actions were anything but genuine.  I think Vanessa is a great addition to the podcast. They needed a female perspective and I like what she brings to the table.  The powers that be must of thought so or they wouldn't have hired her.

Again, I don't have any problems with Jared and Dean having a friendship with Vanessa because Nick and Vanessa have said time and time again that they are on good terms. I'm just saying that I think it's strange for Vanessa to willingly co-host a podcast with two of Nick's closest Bachelor Nation friends if she didn't want anything to do with Nick.

Seeing as I've outlined Nick's social media activities over the course of the break-up, I think now would be a good time to talk about Vanessa. To be honest, I didn't follow that closely in the beginning; in fact, it wasn't really until I found out that she was communicating with Nick's mother on Instagram some time after the break-up that I decided to pay closer attention. What I noticed from Vanessa in the last few months of 2017 was that she seemed to still be holding onto Nick by communicating with his friends/ family on social media (liking their posts from time to time, etc). In November, she did a few interviews where she had nothing but great things to say about Nick--she said that she still had a lot of respect for him, that they were just too different but that their love was real and that they will always be supportive of each other. At that point, when asked if they still talk, Vanessa had said "once in awhile" and assured everyone that they were still friends. This culminated into the Almost Famous Podcast interview where I swear she might as well had said that she was still in love with him. It was the way she talked about him-- how she said that she still thought the world of him, that she would do anything for him if he needed anything, that she was proud of how he did on his role on Speechless and she even credited him as being the person that showed her that she could experience a "great love" again after things ended with her first "great love" three years prior. And yet, despite these loving statements, when asked if she would ever get back together with Nick, she said that she didn't see that happening given that she's not the type of person who revisits failed relationships. I remember listening to the podcast and thinking "I wonder what Nick would think about this?" Shortly after, Nick liked an RM Drake quote on Instagram that said something along the lines of "stop giving your heart to people who don't water their own hearts because some people expect you to stay when they fail to care for yours"...and it was around this time that he started following January Jones.  
It wasn't until the news broke in mid January that Nick was dating January Jones that I saw a genuine shift in Vanessa's attitude. I remember the initial Instagram quotes that she liked and they pointed towards feelings of sadness but then quickly shifted to anger. She was clearly upset; when some of the women from Nick's season made snide comments about him on her Instagram, she would like the comments and then laugh (ie post "LOL!") in agreement while also notably liking a quote from a fan saying that she made the right decision to run away from the relationship before it was too late (I'm paraphrasing here). Though I didn't mind her selling her Bachelor dresses for charity, I remember her posting a lot about being the third wheel, being single and being traumatized by roses; and by February, it seemed like her anger had reached its peak. I just remember her liking a lot of bitter quotes and I remember her even liking photos from Josh Murray's instagram page and even commenting with a heart-eye emojii in the comment section of one of his photos. She even posted a video on the Fabfitfun page giving "dating tips" where she blatantly says "never trust a guy with a red rose" which was obviously an extremely shady comment towards Nick. It wasn't until January Jones came out and said that Nick and her were simply friends that Vanessa seemed to calm down (this was the near end of February) and I notice that she even liked a photo from Nick's mother's Instagram page on the day of the Bachelor finale (part 1). But then that finale hit and it seemed like all of her anxiety and rage came rushing back. If memory serves, I'm pretty sure she left for Montreal later that week and if her social media was any indication, she was still very angry and bitter towards Nick. Whether it was her singing along to Demi Lovato's "Sorry Not Sorry" on her Instagram story or liking a video from dating expert Matthew Hussey's Instagram where he talks about how some people don't follow their own advice and stay in relationships longer than they should, she was clearly still harbouring a lot of resentment towards Nick. And then all of the sudden, some guy started making appearances on Vanessa's Instagram and it was fairly obvious that she was seeing someone. Of course, the fact that she went from liking bitter quotes/videos about love to featuring a new guy on her Instagram story did make it seem like she had found herself a rebound...but of course, I didn't know the details so I reserved judgment. She seemed happy and I don't recall her liking any bitter/resentful quotes once he entered the picture--it did seem like for a time, she was focused on the new relationship. However, near the end of the two months that she had spent in Montreal (minus the 2 weeks that she had spent in Florida), I did notice another shift in her demeanor. I remember in one of her Instagram stories, she was with her little cousin and she asked her something along the lines of "Kiki, what did you say you wanted?", she said "a picture" and Vanessa replied with "no, you said you wanted a rose"--and she was smiling when she said that...as if she was no longer traumatized. This change continued when she moved back to LA; and I noticed that her Instagram posts were different too. While Nick previously seemed to be curating his Instagram posts so that they subtly connected to hers, it seemed like Vanessa was doing the same thing for Nick.

Beyonce reference:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhmXf3UnuIz/?hl=en&taken-by=nickviall
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhsZBc4Atru/?hl=en&taken-by=vanessagrimaldi30

Stagecoach--both captions referencing an article of clothing
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiLPrF0nos0/?hl=en&taken-by=nickviall
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiQVPIIAX0P/?hl=en&taken-by=vanessagrimaldi30

New York (and Vanessa seemingly enjoying a bouquet of flowers with the caption referencing roses--again, showing that she is not traumatized)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiiHC04HGQt/?hl=en&taken-by=nickviall  
https://www.instagram.com/p/BipzA3dgm9y/?hl=en&taken-by=vanessagrimaldi30

And then of course, there was Vanessa joining the Help I suck at Dating podcast with Jared (Nick's roommate/ Bachelor Nation bestie) and Dean (Nick's other Bachelor nation bestie).

This pretty much brings us up to speed...and even though I know there are probably people who will still doubt my post, I just want to say that I'm only going by the information that's provided to me and basing my opinions around that information. Though I realize that I could be way off base, I do think that the evidence is pretty clear that Nick and Vanessa really did love each other. I don't know if there's a possibility for a reconciliation in the future but I am confident when I say that given everything that I've seen from them from the past 9 months, it is clear that they still really care about each other. At the end of the day, I guess you can say that I'm just a hopeless romantic who loves to see people follow their hearts...but regardless, I only wish them both nothing but the best.JMO

GuardianAngel wrote:@Bluejay271 thanks. I appreciate your thoughts, but I don't think for a second Nick has any intention of getting back together with her. I think it's Vanessa's nature to be touchy feely, she does not hesitate showing her affection towards anyone. This IMO is very common with Italians, speaking for myself.

IMO if there's no so called love language from one party, then they aren't feeling it. Some have difficulty expressing their feelings, but I believe if someone is truly in love, they'll let you know. I always thought it was agreed by both of them to split. She was very upset for awhile, but at the same time they always respected each other. She IMO is so very different than Nick. It was great while it lasted.

I also see nothing wrong with her being friends with Jared Dean or the roommate. Just because couples split it doesn't mean they have to sever all ties between the people they are acquainted with as a couple.

If she's gone back to Montreal, it sounds like she doesn't have a permanent residence Visa or any other documentation to stay in California.

I personally feel like there's a difference between not letting someone know that you love them and simply having troubles giving the other person what they need. Vanessa knew that Nick loved her--she said this multiple times in interviews and she seemingly never doubted his feelings. However, she did doubt his ability to make her happy and satisfy her with the type of love language that speaks to her. And just because people have different love languages does not mean that there's no love present. For instance, I remember Vanessa saying that she's not a materialistic person...let's say for a moment that one of Nick's key love languages has to do with giving gifts; in this scenario, he might be showing her love and affection in his own way but given that Vanessa doesn't care about material items, then the love language doesn't speak to her soul (this is just a hypothetical example). Some people put a higher value on words of affirmation than physical touch or acts of service, etc. I don't think it's fair to assume that Nick didn't provide Vanessa with any love language when they were together; I just think that Vanessa has really high standards when it comes to relationships and if the guy isn't giving her the kind of attention that she needs/craves then she doesn't see the point in continuing the relationship.

And in terms of Nick and Vanessa being different, I can totally see how they are. However, that being said, I sometimes find it kind of creepy how similar they are too. They're both emotional, opinionated but also level-headed and self-aware people who aren't afraid to speak their minds. Their mindsets when it comes to certain topics are very similar--in fact, I swear Vanessa stole some of Nick's answers from previous interviews that he has done in the past. Nick recently retweeted a quote from the Dali Lama on Twitter that says that when you focus on people's differences then it creates barriers which is why it's best to focus on how people are similar (again, I'm paraphrasing). I guess I just take the whole compatibility issue to heart given that my parents are complete opposites in so many ways and yet have been married for over 28 years and are still going strong. I just think that every situation is different. JMO

I personally don't think anything of Vanessa befriending Jared and Dean, even if they are Nick's friends. Nick seems to be friends with many people in the Bach nation, is Vanessa supposed to not befriend them all, because they're Nick's friends?

I don't think either Nick or Vanessa are harbouring any feelings of getting back together. They tried their hardest to make it work, but just weren't compatible. It happens. Both are sensible, smart adults, and seem to have moved on. Jmo.

Cocoasneeze wrote:I personally don't think anything of Vanessa befriending Jared and Dean, even if they are Nick's friends. Nick seems to be friends with many people in the Bach nation, is Vanessa supposed to not befriend them all, because they're Nick's friends?

I don't think either Nick or Vanessa are harbouring any feelings of getting back together. They tried their hardest to make it work, but just weren't compatible. It happens. Both are sensible, smart adults, and seem to have moved on. Jmo.

. I agree! They are smart adults