Rachel Lindsay & Bryan Abasolo - Bachelorette 13 - Discussion

lleyki wrote:

jalkire wrote:Eh I don't think Demario was trying to be hurtful but he definitely knew what he was doing. I think this is has many layers and everyone is not going to get it. With that being said she needs to learn to pick and choose her battles, this is not worth her time IMO.

DeMario essentially stated that the first night they knew Rachel would bring one black guy to the end as the token black guy and have all her other three be white because she just had "that vibe" and you could just tell it. He then proceeded to add an anecdote suggesting that she didn't even try with the black guys, saying how Kenny was talking about his daughter and Rachel barely looked like she cared or was interested. Sure he didn't mean it to be rude and hurtful.

They were people calling her low-class and sl*tty for grinding on Bryan and she said nothing.

Ah yes, the sl*t shaming. My favorite were the comments to her that she was acting out because she settled of course and who she really wanted to be with she's not and she is trying so desperately to seem happy that she was compensating with alcohol and acting out because this behavior was clearly not who she is. Ah, good times.

^^^THIS.

But each lead hasn't been singled out like this before. Or if they have, I've completely missed it. Which lead has been called out for liking only white people, and for their F4 to be 3 white people, and one black one, or any race discussion, at all?

@lleyki Wait, so people were getting on her case because she (a 32 year-old woman) was doing a sexy dance ON HER FIANCE at a beach party? What is wrong with some people, I just don't get it. She wasn't grinding random dudes! Besides, if they watch the season, they would know Rachel is a very physical person. SMH. Sorry, this kind of holier-than-thou judgemental BS is my pet peeve. JMO.

peggy0221 wrote:

Chgohighlife wrote:

Snipped

The fact that I may not get or understand a specific slur against another culture or, religion or, short people or whatever means nothing because the people it was meant to hurt, still very much are hurt. All JMO

This I can totally understand, and this is exactly why I tried to ask why is it considered as character attack to Rachel. If you tell me, this is something about her culture and so, I may get it. But TBH, so far, I can only see posts talked about how bad DeMario was and about Rachel's character being attacked, not about her culture background may make her sensitive to the issue, so I was like, what and what.

Anyway, I don't think I could get it anytime soon.

But I still think for Rachel to fight back like that, it just shows me how insecure she is. As @Spite mentioned, she famed the situation and revealed her own weak spot for the world to see. I never thought too much about that before, but now, her fighting back only got me to think maybe she is not too comfortable to date a white guy too.

Actually Peggy, I think you can get it more than many. This issue goes to the core of who we all are as women because it once again says it's quite ok for a man to do it (work a job, date whomever he wants, have an opinion, assign care of children to someone else, love someone younger, speak up for themselves) but, when a woman does it - OMG (she's a bad mother, she's a cougar, she's a b(itch), she's insecure). What you see playing out on this board, right now is that age old conundrum. And that's only layer one of a multi layer issue of women vs men, white vs black, loyalty, southern values, identity, cultural pecking order, female "stay in your place", aggressive vs assertive and a million other issues. Thank God for brilliance and open-mindedness, and enough caring to question before condemning and defense of each other as women because the last thing Demario needs or deserves in this scenario is any defense from any of us. He attacked her, IMO in an environment where he knew he'd get away with it because most people as they themselves have said, don't get it. The problem for him is many people do get it. He is not worth her time but, Rachel is not talking to him. She is talking to the same people he is talking to because he has indicted her and she feels the need to offer her defense. I refuse to judge her for that. 

Rachel is a young woman. Younger than many of us were at her age because of her focus on education and career building and a protected childhood. However, she is growing and learning and some of those lessons are hard and hurtful and harshly judged but, so be it. This club has dues. 

We who are fabulous didn't become the fabulous women we are without dues and struggle and neither will she. You know that. She has to play out on a big stage for now but, she will level off and morph and grow into something great. Still flawed as all the great ones are, but great, I do believe. All JMO

Also, for the record - Bryan is a very proud Latino who would never check off a box that says Caucasian or any equivalent under race. He introduced himself as he sees himself, Colombian. I've seen all the attempts to classify him as otherwise but, they are a distinction without a difference, IMO.

I have many things to say on this discussion and they're not pretty. Apologies in advance if this offends, but the following is JMO, based on my experiences and observations:

From my experiences, interracial dating in America is very much a big deal. I'm African-American, and though in the past I have dated and married outside my race (I'm divorced now), most of my AA female friends have not. My male AA friends have. My Black female friends seemed to humorously question my dating choices out of curiosity and trepidation. Not the same with my Black male friends. Although quite of few of them dates outside their race as well (and still do) their opinion about me doing it was always met with hypocritical condescension and charges of self-hate. I don't date interracial anymore, but I have one close Black male friend that still talks about it to this day (while he's dating numerous white women); he claims all my problems come from marrying a white man (I've been divorced for ten years). He just will not let it go! Talking to other Black women that date out, this seems like a trend, and for a while now, I've been feeling like Black women get this overwhelming negativity thrust upon us from all sides. It's an almost innate hostility so many have for us. We're wrong no matter what we do and it goes beyond matters of dating and marriage. It's far deeper than that. But to keep to this topic, date in, Date out; either way we get negativity from all sides. IMO, this is what is truly behind the hostility against Rachel. Because, the only one under constant undeserved attack is Rachel. From TOG's friends and family, from DeMario, TPTB, the mass media, the audience, even by some Black women--It's crazy!

I've always tried to adhere to the phrase "live and let live" if one is not impeding on another's personal freedom, their actions are mutually consensual and they're not hurting someone, why should I care who they share their heart and body with and how they live their life?

Sadly, too many out here do not live by this creed.

DeMario - how he fixed his mouth to drag Rachel into his mess, I do not know. He is an a$$, a hypocrite, opportunistic, devoid of character and frankly lacks credibility in this conversation. ABC set him up (or maybe he went along with it). If he didn't, that just makes him a moron. If I was on a show and they ambushed me with an ex or some woman I was hooking up with (however you want to categorize it) to make me look bad, why would I then come back on another show by these same producers? The trust has already been broken. He goes on BIP and day one, they set him up worse! What does he do? After he's pretty much smeared as a sexual predator, he comes back and defends them, the white woman who claims she blacked out and didn't know what happened (which I do not believe), the producers, everyone - but - he doesn't just defend them, he attacks and blames the Black woman who had nothing to do with what went on during BIP! She wasn't there, and considering how he departed her show, she owes him nothing. He wants to discuss race and false accusations against Black men, then maybe he needs to pick up a copy of Ida B. Wells The Red Record or Phillip Dray's At The Hands of Persons Unknown. Otherwise, he's looking stupid as F defending ABC, their producers, and Corrine. If his tea wasn't clocked before, his continued lack of character is cemented for me after his latest comments.

IMO DeMario is not only stupid and opportunistic, but is erroneous in accusing Rachel. His analysis of the truth is gravely lacking and he knows it. He know's Rachel is an easy target. He is only fooling those that choose to believe his mess due to their own biases. Here are the facts we know: Rachel mostly dated Black men before the show. Affluent black men. Its been stated that she also dated a few non-black men. Quite a few of the men the producers cast on the show through their own admissions had never dated Black women, or had a preference for dating non-black women. If that doesn't sound like a set-up, I don't know what does. Instead of these folks constantly attacking Rachel and Bryan, they need to turn their ire on TPTB. Because despite what their former practices were, they waited to cast a Black lead for a reason. Even through eight years of America having a Black President, they refused to cast a Black lead on this frothy reality show. During a time when so many claimed we were living in a post-racial society. Does anyone ever wonder why? Because we weren't , are not and we never were living in a post-racial society. So, by casting Rachel, especially now, they were going to have to do some things slightly different to ensure the show's success and that Rachel was successful. But they didn't do that. They didn't want her to be successful. Rachel was successful despite them! To me it's looking more and more like this cycle of the franchise was predetermined with a specious and specific story arc, and it's pretty f'ing egregious considering the political and racial climate we're living under in America. Rachel dealt with the hand she was given and I applaud her for doing about as well as anyone could do given the circumstances.

The issue was not whether Rachel was interested in most of the men on her season. The question is whether TPTB cast a bunch of men (black, white, and in between) who they knew were not interested in dating Black women. Not Rachel, but Black women in general.There is no greater evidence of this than with the pursuit and casting of Lee; a bigot! Who I suspect is more than a bigot, possibly a racist!  Let that thought marinate for a while.

The whole thing doesn't pass the sniff test to me. Not at all.

Cocoasneeze wrote:But each lead hasn't been singled out like this before. Or if they have, I've completely missed it. Which lead has been called out for liking only white people, and for their F4 to be 3 white people, and one black one, or any race discussion, at all?

Well if there was a white lead, who seemed uninterested in the white contestants, I think people would talk about it, so not quite the same thing IMO. & as for calling people out for only liking white people, Rachel's season has kind of forced the race topic onto this board, because it was pretty much a no go before if I'm not mistaken, and I might not have said anything but I definitely thought it. I'm gonna be very blunt here, there's a reason it took until Nick for a black person to make it as far as Rachel did, and that's because Nick imo is the ONLY (singular) former lead (male and female) that I think would actually have a real life romantic relationship with a black person. It's something I ignore to enjoy the show but it is what it is. All Jmo of course.

@ReneeM I think Byron's ex-wife (or ex-girlfriend, can't remember) was black and Sean's last girlfriend before going on the show was black. Britt, if you count her as a Bachelorette, also dated a black guy after Brady. I agree though, it's very rare in this franchise. IMO.

ReneeM wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:But each lead hasn't been singled out like this before. Or if they have, I've completely missed it. Which lead has been called out for liking only white people, and for their F4 to be 3 white people, and one black one, or any race discussion, at all?

Well if there was a white lead, who seemed uninterested in the white contestants, I think people would talk about it. & as for calling people out for only liking white people, Rachel's season has kind of forced the race topic onto this board, because it was pretty much a no go before if I'm not mistaken, and I might not have said anything but I definitely thought it. I'm gonna be very blunt here, there's a reason it took until Nick for a black person to make it as far as Rachel did, and that's because Nick imo is the ONLY (singular) former lead (male and female) that I think would actually have a real life romantic relationship with a black person. It's something I ignore to enjoy the show but it is what it is. All Jmo of course.

Sean actually dated an African American woman for almost year before he went on Emily's season so at least one other lead has. And while he may not have taken her to the F4, one of the African American women on his season made it to episode 5 before he eliminated her and she wasn't just the "token black contestant" kept around like on some seasons.

I could tell all season Rachel was simply attracted more to the white guys she was given than the African American men. Nothing wrong with that but it's just kinda stating the obvious. Lol

And while the race issue clearly wasn't brought up as much that season, I distinctly remember some comments during Sean's season since the blonde, blue eyed man could only possibly be attracted to blonde, southern women and there were racist jokes made at Catherine's expense. They still sometimes get those comments on their social media nearly five years later.

@Aria @umngirl Thanks! I stand corrected, but yeah. There's a reason AA are/have been tokenized in this franchise and it's because most of these leads wouldn't ever actually date a black person in their real lives.

makeover wrote:@lleyki Wait, so people were getting on her case because she (a 32 year-old woman) was doing a sexy dance ON HER FIANCE at a beach party? What is wrong with some people, I just don't get it. She wasn't grinding random dudes! Besides, if they watch the season, they would know Rachel is a very physical person. SMH. Sorry, this kind of holier-than-thou judgemental BS is my pet peeve. JMO.

The sl*t shaming from judgemental asses for real.

IMHO it shouldn't matter what color of skin Bryan has if Rachel truly loves him. Everybody has their likes and dislikes. Some like vanilla. Some like chocolate. Some even likes them both together.. It shouldn't make them wrong which ever one they choose.

If Rachel and Bryan are happy, I'm thrilled for them.. She never was nor will she ever be a fav of mine, but people need to hush and leave her along about her choice in men and let it all play out ever which way it will..

ReneeM wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:But each lead hasn't been singled out like this before. Or if they have, I've completely missed it. Which lead has been called out for liking only white people, and for their F4 to be 3 white people, and one black one, or any race discussion, at all?

Well if there was a white lead, who seemed uninterested in the white contestants, I think people would talk about it, so not quite the same thing IMO. & as for calling people out for only liking white people, Rachel's season has kind of forced the race topic onto this board, because it was pretty much a no go before if I'm not mistaken, and I might not have said anything but I definitely thought it. I'm gonna be very blunt here, there's a reason it took until Nick for a black person to make it as far as Rachel did, and that's because Nick imo is the ONLY (singular) former lead (male and female) that I think would actually have a real life romantic relationship with a black person. It's something I ignore to enjoy the show but it is what it is. All Jmo of course.

Rachel wasn't uninterested in the black contestants though. The choices weren't that great, IMO. It's the astounding hypocrisy Imo, that annoys me. It's cool for Demario and the other black men to date white women, or whoever they want, but Demario decides to publicly call out Rachel for liking only white men, when her F1 pick in fact is Latina. And like others have said, he's gone out of his way to defend Corinne, TPBP, but can't offer any support for the first AA lead. Jmo