Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - MTA - July 31 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* Discussion

GuardianAngel wrote:I don't buy that Peter backed off just because he saw a connection with Bryan. So he's not going to fight for the girl if he really wants her? Only to later diss him on SM? He had the first 1:1, that was his perfect chance to show her and tell her, he was attracted to her, he is looking forward to the future, to getting to know her, rather than discussing if she would consider living in L.A. The body language during that date was for me so uncomfortable to watch.

The lead has said things to and about the F2 every single season whether they mean it, v/o's or are scripted. That's the nature of this show. The things Andi said to Nick almost convinced me he was the F1.

The lead has a job to do as far as making the storyboard for the F2 come to life. They know exactly who their F1 will be by this time. There's no clarity IMHO, it's all about the storyboard. Peter's has been he won't propose even though Rachel wants one. IMHO she doesn't want a proposal from him to begin with so now what? We create a story to make the most dramatic breakup ever. Her clarity will be she's not going to choose someone she has to work hard for the relationship. The guy is maybe promising to date, she doesn't want that. Even if his storyboard  was that he wants to propose, he'd be just another Robby IMHO.

lleyki wrote:

I don't buy that Peter backed off just because he saw a connection with Bryan. So he's not going to fight for the girl if he really wants her? Only to later diss him on SM? He had the first 1:1, that was his perfect chance to show her and tell her, he was attracted to her, he is looking forward to the future, to getting to know her, rather than discussing if she would consider living in L.A. The body language during that date was for me so uncomfortable to watch.

I agree. For me it's a cop-out excuse and a bit of revisionist history. And also talking out of both sides of the situation. Because on one hand it's, "well if he wasn't really into her and didn't really want her, he wouldn't be jealous". But then when people point out all the ways Peter just doesn't seem as into Rachel, it's suddenly, "well he realized early she wanted Bryan and backed off because why should he try when she wants someone else?"

And like you said, Peter had the first one on one, Peter had a date every single week, whether it was a group date or one on one, she went off with him in a hot tub that most can't stop bringing up as evidence of their amazing connection, sure she didn't give him the group date rose then but she gave it to him the next group date he was on. The infamous watch that so many keep holding onto didn't happen until much later in the season when Peter was already not seeming as invested in Rachel. It seems like for some it was up to Rachel to make Peter feel like he was the only man who mattered, despite the fact that the show he signed up for was that she would be dating multiple men. And because she didn't do that then she should expect that he would only give her crumbs of emotion because Peter must be made to feel like the only special and important one.

SFoster wrote:Rachel's MTA episode had more viewers than JoJo's MTA last season!  I predict a strong rating for the finale, as well!  JMO

LynnTa wrote:

SFoster wrote:Rachel's MTA episode had more viewers than JoJo's MTA last season!  I predict a strong rating for the finale, as well!  JMO

I think its because a lot of Peter fans tuned in to see Rachel's family "expose" Bryan and put him in his place and out of the Pachel way to happiness  jmo

Talking about Rachel's family,in particular Constance,  she treated Bryan as a hostile witness  imo.  I understand that the grilling was part of Producer making but I got the feeling that with Constance it was a bit more. It felt like Bryan was guilty until proven otherwise & her BL was like she didn't like Bryan and wasn't going to be polite. I know Ashley's sister went after JP but I felt like she was just doing her part. Tptb needed to create doubt because JP had none.  Anyway, I hope I'm wrong about Constance.  But one important take away from the visit was what Mama said to Bryan. Although she didn't agree with this form of finding love, She gave her blessing because she TRUSTED Rachel  and she thought Bryan was being HONEST.  
Rachel had told her Mom that she was falling in love with Bryan & the feelings were genuine & in ITM she said she hoped Mom would see that Bryan's feelings were genuine too!    IMO, Rachel needed to hear !      AJMO

CHO wrote:Rolly, I agree.  The whole show has been focused on getting Peter to propose - so if he should finally realize that he can't live without her - it would be a hard slap in the face if she were to reject him (Peter).
Rachel seems like a careful, rational person.  It seems like these dates such as walking around Madison, shopping for baby clothes, visiting with the priest are attempts to have their relationship as normal as possible, and to find out as much as possible about each other.  She has told Peter she likes his nervousness in the beginning, then she likes him, and now she is falling in love (with him).  She has not encouraged Bryan at all.  She has not been in a hot tub with Bryan.  
I realize the evidence strongly points to Bryan.  
But are we to ignore her words that we will be surprised at who she picks?  
How do her words that the greater the risk, the greater the reward - fit in with picking Bryan?  What came to my mind is that she breaks off with Peter - takes a big chance that he will not admit to himself that he is in love with Rachel - only to have him finally realize in the end that he cannot live without her.
Her words that she now knows "he" is very much in love with her: For Peter - he gave in - he bended.  For Bryan  maybe that he didn't let R discourage him from loving her - ??
Given what we have seen - she does seem to be extremely happy when she is with Bryan.  It's just that all the "firsts" comments and really the whole show - has been centered on Peter and the relationship that is inching along ...

pavalygurl wrote:

CHO wrote:Rolly, I agree.  The whole show has been focused on getting Peter to propose - so if he should finally realize that he can't live without her - it would be a hard slap in the face if she were to reject him (Peter).
Rachel seems like a careful, rational person.  It seems like these dates such as walking around Madison, shopping for baby clothes, visiting with the priest are attempts to have their relationship as normal as possible, and to find out as much as possible about each other.  She has told Peter she likes his nervousness in the beginning, then she likes him, and now she is falling in love (with him).  She has not encouraged Bryan at all.  She has not been in a hot tub with Bryan.  
I realize the evidence strongly points to Bryan.  
But are we to ignore her words that we will be surprised at who she picks?  
How do her words that the greater the risk, the greater the reward - fit in with picking Bryan?  What came to my mind is that she breaks off with Peter - takes a big chance that he will not admit to himself that he is in love with Rachel - only to have him finally realize in the end that he cannot live without her.
Her words that she now knows "he" is very much in love with her: For Peter - he gave in - he bended.  For Bryan  maybe that he didn't let R discourage him from loving her - ??
Given what we have seen - she does seem to be extremely happy when she is with Bryan.  It's just that all the "firsts" comments and really the whole show - has been centered on Peter and the relationship that is inching along ...

Not sure where she said this, I think it was on Peter's MTP date, but Peter was talking about how their relationship developed.  She said he had the first and the last 1:1 date.  To me it felt like she thought it was significant.  

All lot of things need explaining eg. Why Bryan was liking "next bachelor " comment's, Peter defending Rachel and liking comments about them, Bryan following amanda stanton, Bryan having the S13 in his bio while Peter doesn't

lleyki wrote:I have never seen so much emphasis placed on a hot tub, IMO. Again, are we all forgetting the fact that Kaitlyn full on slept with another man before the Fantasy Suites, then still kept that man around until the end despite Shawn's near catatonic rage over that guy's mere presence and then she still picked Shawn and he still happily proposed and they're still together?

So Rachel was in a hot tub for a few minutes with Peter, well she was in one with Eric as well and it was Bryan's face she was equally practically swallowing only a few hours after meeting him on the first night.

But are we to ignore her words that we will be surprised at who she picks?

But almost every lead says that. Because what's the alternative, "oh it's totally obvious and you've probably figured it out already". Last season, in his blog before the finale, Nick wrote something about his journey not ending the way we necessarily thought. Um, it ended exactly as most had already figured out through the spoilers and sleuthing.

And if we want to focus on what Rachel is saying and not ignoring her words. Then are we just going to ignore how more than once now she's said that while she always went for the challenge and the person with who it was so hard because in her mind that meant it was real, but this time she didn't do that. And this time she chose the person who did have it all together, where it wasn't a struggle or a challenge. Does that not strongly indicate that she chose Bryan?

I don't buy that Peter backed off just because he saw a connection with Bryan. So he's not going to fight for the girl if he really wants her? Only to later diss him on SM? He had the first 1:1, that was his perfect chance to show her and tell her, he was attracted to her, he is looking forward to the future, to getting to know her, rather than discussing if she would consider living in L.A. The body language during that date was for me so uncomfortable to watch.

I agree. For me it's a cop-out excuse and a bit of revisionist history. And also talking out of both sides of the situation. Because on one hand it's, "well if he wasn't really into her and didn't really want her, he wouldn't be jealous". But then when people point out all the ways Peter just doesn't seem as into Rachel, it's suddenly, "well he realized early she wanted Bryan and backed off because why should he try when she wants someone else?"

And like you said, Peter had the first one on one, Peter had a date every single week, whether it was a group date or one on one, she went off with him in a hot tub that most can't stop bringing up as evidence of their amazing connection, sure she didn't give him the group date rose then but she gave it to him the next group date he was on. The infamous watch that so many keep holding onto didn't happen until much later in the season when Peter was already not seeming as invested in Rachel. It seems like for some it was up to Rachel to make Peter feel like he was the only man who mattered, despite the fact that the show he signed up for was that she would be dating multiple men. And because she didn't do that then she should expect that he would only give her crumbs of emotion because Peter must be made to feel like the only special and important one.