Re: Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - FAN Forum - Discussion #25

[notarose]

@ukglasgowkiiss
I do think running the foundation at a distance is doable however Vanessa said she very detail orientated and in her LIVE IG 2 days before the event she was showing the venue booth layout and had decided she didn't like it and was changing it up. I can see that type of personality needing to be there every step of the way to approve all aspects or be stressed if not being able to have hands on control. For someone like Vanessa it is much better to be present.
I also think Galilleo is a unique program - rare and hard to substitute. Whomever designed the curriculum is exceptional IMO.  
I agree that Nick is ready to do for his own future family what he arranged for his WI friends - go to tailgate events with the kids, attend a game, backyard bbque. I think what each planned during their times in WI and Montreal showed what each valued in the immediate future.

As to changing the format of the show, I think viewers like the predictability of it all. I do think having 2 Bach break up in succession may result in a switcharoo where the next season may be Bette. There are a few things in Bach that aren't in Bette like having to ask all HTD parents for possible permission to get engaged which puts families in a very awkward position. Also after that the lead is picking out a ring with viewers guessing who the ring is for which makes the ring a symbol of controversy. Taking away the possibility of an engagement does make it easier for a final couple but if there was no engagement it becomes another dating show and if so a lot would have to change. JMO

[Guest]

Hi everyone!

I'm a new poster here but I've been following this forum for the last few months and have really enjoyed reading everyone's comments about Nick and Vanessa's relationship. As a Nick fan, it's always been nice to come on this forum and read the opinions of people who genuinely seem to care about him and understand him--something that is unfortunately very rare to come across in the social media world. In a way, this forum has been a nice escape for me; a chance to get away from the negativity that surrounds Nick (and Vanessa) and not have to worry about hateful trolls bashing Nick for ignorant and/or unfounded reasons...so I just want to thank everyone for that.

Now,  I know that my timing of joining the conversation might be a little strange but like many people here, I'm also fairly heartbroken at the news that Nick and Vanessa broke up and I feel like this is a safe place for me to vent and share my thoughts. First I want to start by saying that I still believe that the love between Nick and Vanessa was always 100% real and I will never think or say otherwise. What I saw on the show were two passionate, realistic and pragmatic people who saw all of the qualities that they were looking for in each other and therefore wanted to take the leap of faith of getting engaged and trying to see if they could defy the odds and build a life with each other in the outside world. That being said, it was also clear on the show that they knew exactly what their barriers and points of conflict would be in the relationship; they knew that the living situation would be a point of contention and Nick even expressed that he foresaw that there would be some problems and conflict in the relationship simply because he recognized that they are both stubborn, passionate people who want what they want and would therefore have troubles truly compromising as a result. In addition, Nick and Vanessa clearly talked about their plans for the future while on the show which meant that that they obviously had an inkling of how things would be if they continued to pursue a relationship; Nick said at the No Better You foundation that Vanessa even mentioned the idea for her charity while they were in the fantasy suite and I'm sure that Nick, in return, was very open and honest with Vanessa about his L.A. business ventures and his ambitions of making it in the entertainment world. Even their proposal, as romantic as it was, demonstrated that they were aware of the potential red flags and struggles that would arise from being together in the real world; in their speeches, Vanessa flat-out said that she knew that "things were not going to be easy" and when Nick said that he was fighting his feelings for Vanessa, I don't believe that he was only referring to the fact that he had 29 other women to manage-- I think that he was also fighting his sense of logic in choosing her given that he was very aware of how difficult their relationship was going to be on the outside world. And yet, despite everything, they still chose each other--they chose to follow their hearts and at least give their love a fair shot. I think that's why I fell in love with their love story; when I watched them together I saw two people who were open and honest and who chose each other with eyes wide open to the fact that the odds were stacked against them. They knew going into it that their love was never going to be a fairytale which is why I know that it was real. They didn't fall for the fairytale, they fell for each other...but unfortunately, as I know they realized, love isn't enough--especially when you're a couple in the public eye.

Like I said, I think that Nick and Vanessa foresaw a lot of the challenges that they would face while they were on the show but I also strongly believe that the pressure that comes from being a Bachelor couple post-show was what ultimately doomed them, both from the start and in the end. Figuring out the living situation was never going to be easy but to try and figure out everything when you're on the receiving end of a tsunami of negativity and backlash from outside forces probably made all of their challenges/issues a million times more stressful for them (especially for Vanessa who had very vocal about the fact that she struggled with dealing with the social media negativity). Also, because of their weird situation, they were never afforded the luxury of a honeymoon phase which meant that they were never able to experience a period pure bliss that really, in my opinion, would have at the very least given them a sense of hope in a borderline hopeless world. Let's remember that the foundation of their relationship was built on Vanessa having to watch Nick make-out with multiple women while he was falling in love with her, some of whom Vanessa didn't get along with in the house. I think that the PTSD that they suffered from the nature of being on the show must have only added another layer of stress and tension in the relationship and I just think that their passionate, realistic personalities prevented them from being able to pretend that the experience didn't leave a bad taste in their mouths (and was also probably one of the main reasons why Nick felt compelled to distance himself from the Bachelor as much as possible). And then there was the pressure and added stress of having to deal with the level of public interest and scrutiny that also must of taken their toll on them, especially on Nick, over time. I agree with everyone who says that Nick is an introvert and a private person at heart and so I definitely think that it was extra difficult for him to be involved a public relationship, particularly one of that magnitude. When I listened to his podcast with Juliet Litman, I was struck by just how anxious and paranoid he seemed to be about accidentally making headlines. He even talked about the experience of having people taking photographs of him and Vanessa together on an airplane in order to make money off their relationship... and I imagine that the thought made him sick to his stomach. I'm sorry to say it but if I'm being totally honest, I just don't think that Nick was ever cut out to have a relationship in the public eye; as someone who seems to put a high moral value on authenticity, honesty and personal privacy, Nick just never had the right personality to be able to "play a role' and embrace the nature of their public situation. In fact, I'm sure that the very notion of having to play a role in general probably turned him off entirely which is possibly a large part of the reason why he barely spoke about his relationship with Vanessa in public and rarely posted about her on social media. He was trying to control the situation as best as he could by not feeding the beast, so to speak...but again, Nick's inability to live in denial probably also hindered his ability to get out of his head and I imagine that the whole situation exhausted him which is probably why he always seemed a little drained whenever him and Vanessa were at public events together (such as the No Better You fundraiser).

But of course, if Nick and Vanessa had a solid foundation then maybe Nick would have seemed happier because he would have been happier in the relationship. However, what I argue is that they never even had a chance of building that foundation in a toxic world with all of the prying eyes and hateful sounds echoing on the internet.

And then there is the guilt factor which I do believe is a huge potential reason as to why Nick never seemed to be totally comfortable in the relationship (at least in the public eye). Nick sort of acknowledged it in the podcast with Juilet Litman when he recognized how difficult the situation is for Vanessa--how she had to go from seeing him as the Bachelor to her seeing him as an equal while making sacrifices and all sorts of crazy decisions...and then he trailed off before he could delve into his feelings on the matter. Knowing Nick, I genuinely believe that he felt the burden and the weight of Vanessa's sacrifices; and knowing Nick, I'm sure that he carried that burden with him everyday and tried to combat it by being caring, affectionate and patient with her (all adjectives that Vanessa had used multiple times to describe him). Knowing Nick, I'm sure that he did feel somewhat responsible for the media backlash that was hurting her; and knowing Nick, I have no doubt that he felt a sense of internal guilt over the idea of taking her away from her family and country in order for her to be with him. And not only that, but I'm sure that the guilt also spilled into his professional life as well; I can easily see him thinking "crap, I have a fiance who has left her entire life behind in order to be with me and here I am focusing on building my career/ following my dreams" and then inevitably feeling upset in general at the idea that the existence of that burden was messing with his ability to be fully happy with the opportunities presented to him. I'm sure it didn't make him happy that Vanessa had to make business calls to people in the late/wee hours of the morning due to the 3 hour time zone difference between L.A. and Montreal. As a proud Canadian myself, I love the fact that Vanessa is also proud of our native country...but I can't say that a part of me didn't die a little bit inside every time that Vanessa talked about Montreal/Canada being her home, and I wouldn't be surprised if Nick felt the same way as I did. Contrary to popular belief (at least on social media), I don't think that Nick is a heartless, famewhoring jerk which is why I'm 100% confident that Vanessa's struggles only made him feel more helpless in the relationship and was probably a huge deciding factor on why they ultimately decided to break up. In the end, I do think that they wanted different things; I do believe that Vanessa's heart was in Montreal and that Nick's life is in L.A.--and I think that deep down they knew that they were travelling in different directions in terms of what they are currently looking for in life. Vanessa is clearly passionate about building her charity and continuing to work with the special needs community in Montreal...whereas  Nick is clearly passionate about pursing his entrepreneurial pursuits and making a name for himself in the entertainment world in L.A.

Today, I randomly came across the epilogue of LaLa Land on Youtube and I decided to watch it again (and if you haven't seen the movie then I suggest that you stop reading now as I'm about to spoil the ending). Basically, the premise of the movie is about a jazz-enthusiast (who wants to start his own jazz club) and a frustrated, aspiring actress who fall in love and help each other follow their dreams, only to realize that their relationship was also keeping them from being fully committed to finding success in their respective endeavours. In the end, they decide to go their separate ways in order to focus on their careers even though they clearly still love each other. Fast forward five years later, we see that the jazz-enthusiast has realized his dream of opening his own jazz club while the aspiring actress is now a famous actress and is married with kids. The last sequence of the movie shows the jazz-enthusiast and the actress looking at each other from across the crowded room...and them giving each other a warm nod and an encouraging smile. It was heartbreaking but it also reminded me of Nick and Vanessa in a way; in their post-Bachelor world, Nick and Vanessa are blessed with so many opportunities to follow their dreams and, like the jazz-enthusiast and the actress, I'm sure that they both encouraged each other to do so. I'm sure that in the fantasy suite Nick told Vanessa that she would be more than capable of being able to start her charity and going off of what Vanessa said in an interview, it seems that Nick actively helped her along the way. Likewise, I'm sure that Vanessa was deeply supportive of Nick with the Polished Gent and all of his other endeavours in the same way that she was supportive of him when he was on DWTS. I'm sure that both of them understood that they could not have been able to realize their dreams without each other's support. But now that Vanessa's charity is up and running and now that Nick is in the thick of his own career pursuits (ie. he recently booked a movie) I can see them wanting to focus on following their dreams without worrying about potentially holding each other back.

I guess what I'm saying is that five years from now, I can see them smiling and nodding encouragingly at each other from across a crowded room as if to say "we did it". Who knows what the future holds for them but I do believe that their joint statement was spoken from the heart--that they are parting ways with love and admiration for each other and that they will always be there for each other no matter what. From beginning to end, Nick and Vanessa have been nothing but genuine and real and I don't see that changing any time soon. Sometimes the best love stories don't end with happily ever after but they do end in a gesture of love. Love may not have been enough for them to make the relationship last but it's nice to think that their love for each other has still managed to endure even through all of the craziness and impossible pressure that was thrown their way while they were still together. Sometimes when you love someone the best way to show your love is to set them free.  
I wish them nothing but the best.

[Billysmom]

What a beautiful, compassionate, and insightful post! Thank you for getting all that down....I wish somehow we could get it to Nissa, sigh...

Welcome to the forum!!!!

[Imp]

Thank you for that, @Bluejay271 ! It feels silly to say, and even sillier to feel, but I was feeling almost bitter about these two calling it quits - like why couldn't these two crazy kids just work it out - can't they see they're perfect for each other?! But I know you're right and it was soothing to read what you wrote, almost like closure. I do wish they both find what they're looking for.

[sdmom]

@Bluejay271
A beautifully written first post!

[Seabear]

@Bluejay271 what a lovely thoughtfully written post. Enjoy being part of BBF.

[ukglasgowkiiss]

@Bluejay271  & Wow what a post. So well written & you really seem to have a deep understanding of who I also think Nick is. I cant articulate it very well sometimes, but I think you hit it on the head with this description
"I'm sure that the very notion of having to play a role in general probably turned him off entirely which is possibly a large part of the reason why he barely spoke about his relationship with Vanessa in public and rarely posted about her on social media. He was trying to control the situation as best as he could by not feeding the beast, so to speak...but again, Nick's inability to live in denial probably also hindered his ability to get out of his head and I imagine that the whole situation exhausted him which is probably why he always seemed a little drained.. “ @Bluejay271
Yes, that sounds exactly what imo was happening. Almost paralysed by the pressure & internally trying to cope with not feeding the media negativity, staying true to himself, trying to protect his fiancee from what was out of his control, trying to remain present, working out if the relationship had issues or if the scrutiny & living situation was the only issue, starting a new business, supporting Vanessas Charity & career plans. Maaan, no wonder he looked tense & quiet at times. All imo.
There has been so much going on for them non stop since the finale aired. Its a lot, they are not superhuman yet have had a superhuman marathon of life tasks. Also ITA about him likely feeling guilty & responsible for the SM hate she got plus the dealing with watching the many girls during the airing, plus leaving her family & country to be with him.
Not easy for anyone.
I love your LaLa land comparison. It kinda (selfishly) reminds me of an ex I had who was very & too similar to me in nature, both fiery & too much so together. We had an intense passionate time then split dramatically, then became friends some years later, then fell out, then friends again, and I know I will always want the best for him. There is an understanding there of how we helped & healed each other in some way.
These experiences I feel are essential lessons in moving forward & I believe Nick & Vanessa have learnt a lot from each other & will stay connected in some way.

[AllAboutLove]

@Bluejay271 and so glad you joined BBF! What an incredibly beautiful and insightful post! I found myself tearing up and nodding my head because I agree so much with what you wrote. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and I hope you continue to do so

[notarose]

 welcome @bluejay271
... to dreams  

[pikake]

Bluejay ... a truly amazing post - you should be a writer!  I had tears in my eyes reading it

[mistygracie74]

Beautiful post Bluejay271!

[MonicaJM2001]

welcome @Bluejay271! I really enjoyed reading your very detailed thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to type that all out and share with us. I haven't seen Lala Land no no worries about spoiling for me as I love knowing the end ahead of time and then I just focus on watching how it gets there! Nick has a history of being able to remain friendly with some exes so since it has been decided there can't be a forever I am hoping V can fall into the friendly ex group. Ugh I hate having to refer to them now in "ex" form.

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