Peter Kraus - Bachelorette 13 - **Sleuthing Spoilers** - #8

bluejay25 wrote:

Dessler wrote:I am for TOG & Rachel but I like peter as well. I think he is very much into Rachel( it is quite obvious from his ITMs) but I see him being very cautious with their relationship which is very different from TOG's approach. None of this approach is better than the other, it is just a matter of personal preference  for the viewers and the degree to which the guys are willing to let go in the process. JMO

I agree. Personally, one of the reasons I was so looking forward to this season was to see a popular show celebrate black women as desirable and worthy of pursuit. It may seem dramatic to some, but even today these are not storylines and visuals that regularly occur on a "mainstream" show with AA woman as the center. That's part of the reason it's hard for me to hear people say Peter, who many people think is quite attractive, suggest "in all the numerous ways" in which is he is not into Rachel. I know Peter is not everyone's cup of tea and everyone does not think he is God's gift, so you may not understand/agree with my point about the insinuation that someone so attractive could not be interested in Rachel. Hopefully, the fact that Peter was placed on such a pedestal early on speaks to my point/gives some insight about how people view him.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions and suggestions of his disinterest have occurred on multiple platforms, so this is not directed at anyone expressing their view here in this forum. That is what we are here to do, so I aim to add another one. And, I am not accusing anyone here of saying that Peter is not interested in Rachel because she is AA (although I have seen those suggestions elsewhere). Sometimes "he's just not that into you" and that has nothing to do with race, age, whatever. But, I'm not sure if this perspective of why some are a little disheartened by such suggestions has been shared yet. It seems to really cut  into one of the whole reasons Rachel being the Bachelorette was a big deal for some, and Peter clearly makes it very far. Time will tell the reason they break up, and perhaps, it will be that reason as some have suggested. Then that will be that I guess. This JMO, it's not the easiest thing to articulate, so I apologize if I've offended anyone.

The thing is though that not everyone who thinks Peter doesn't seem into Rachel is basing that on the bolded agenda. Ignorant people with ignorant viewpoints will always exist. That is the sad reality of the world we live in. However, I believe for the most part that on this board, the people who don't think Peter seems as into Rachel, that opinion has nothing to do with thinking someone as good looking as him could never be into her. And in fact, many who don't think he's into her don't seem as impressed with him as others. I am of course including myself in that.

I understand the point you are making but as a black woman it frustrates me and I apologize in advance for this maybe being off topic because there are so many deeper issues at play here. But let me just say this. I am a person who has and still believes that Peter has never seemed as into Rachel as she is into him. It's just how I see things from what the editing has shown. And I stress about the editing because I'm well aware of how manipulated this show can be but it's all I have to go on. And from what I've seen I just don't feel like he seems that into her and I hate that from the moment that was expressed by myself and others, it gets twisted into a racial thing, in thinking that a white guy as hot as Peter can't be into black Rachel.

And that is so far from the reality for me and I suspect for many others. Because the fact is many people have thought contestants weren't into the lead for many seasons but obviously with the different element of this season, suddenly it's like there's a hesitation to say that. And that's not fair. Also, I am uncomfortable with the projection of Peter wanting Rachel by some. I get visibility and seeing something on screen that resonates but I am uncomfortable with what I feel like is seeking some sort of validation in Peter wanting Rachel by some. Like somehow it makes one as a black woman feel worthy and I call b.s. on that because I'm sorry but nice as Peter seems, he's just some decently looking guy who is a personal trainer. No, that's not me dismissing his career or talent but the fact is he's certainly no hero or superstar or some great amazing human changing the world. He's just some average guy. So I just don't see why his wanting or not wanting Rachel should speak to anything deeper than that.

And finally, let me just say that we have seen Rachel be seen as desirable and worthy of pursuit. We've seen it from the first episode. You know from the guy who basically has gone after her with full focus from the first episode. And he's been accused of being smarmy, slimy, a player, etc. So some feeling like Peter doesn't seem as into Rachel isn't in my opinion about the disappointment of not seeing an African American woman be desired and chased on a major network show but that it's disappointing because it's not being done by the guy that most people favored even before the season started and projected their feelings and fantasy onto.

This is of course all my opinion and I understand like I said above if some of this is off topic.

@lleyki

emusha wrote:why was my post edited? My main point was removed from the post ...but that point was captured in the point above it  -- I find it disheartening when I read and see adamant and consistent reiteration that Peter is not into Rachel, I appreciate everyone's opinions but this is how I feel. It has nothing to do with ppl on this board along, just like the post above my post stated, and it is something found not only on this board but beyond. all of this is my opinion.

If you have a question about why a mod edited or deleted a post, why would you not pm the mod?  WE do not call other members actions out publicly!. This is a rule here.
Why would you call the post out publicly?
I did not edit your post. But I will hit the report button, that way the mod who did edit can attend to the issue stat.
My feeling is being disheartened by a sentiment behind a post is very difficult to separate from the person writing it. Again, I did not edit it.

I'm a fan of Peter but I'm a fan of Rachel first and I think she's the biggest catch this season .

HEA wrote:i believe race has nothing to do with peter lack of attraction. peter has a couple of moc friends so for me it is a moot point
if he just broke up and still went for exposure, his surprise look when rachel gave him the first rose at ep1 makes sense. was he trying to stay in the friend zone as far as he could go? i think he was.
all his BL screams to me: do not touch me...
maybe he was stuck like Brooks and Graham? Honest, i would not be surprise if we see a repeat of Brooks departure
I think peter had no choice but kiss her. i see a guy who liked rachel, a woman he could have met anywhere, had a nice chat.... but was stuck in this bubble, could not get out, did not want to get out too soon, knew it and just pace his time to leave before fantasy date

for me peter could be F3

jmoaau

Well said. It has nothing to do with race imo. Initial attraction isn't based on race. Its something I believe happens naturally regardless of race. I am a WOC & I personally don't find Peter, Josiah, Eric and many others attractive. Nothing wrong with them at all--its just that they are not my cup of tea. All what I'm trying to say is that maybe Peter feels that Rachel isn't his cup of tea and it has nothing to do with Rachel being a WOC . imo. I absolutely don't think that Peter is looking at this as a race issue at all. Maybe its just a matter of Boy meets Girl and Boy doesn't feel it !! Nothing wrong with that! AJMO

bleuberry wrote:I'm a fan of Peter but I'm a fan of Rachel first and I think she's the biggest catch this season .

... Peter's my fave of the guys, he's great, but compared to Rachel? Might as well be chopped liver in my eyes

LynnTa wrote:

HEA wrote:i believe race has nothing to do with peter lack of attraction. peter has a couple of moc friends so for me it is a moot point
if he just broke up and still went for exposure, his surprise look when rachel gave him the first rose at ep1 makes sense. was he trying to stay in the friend zone as far as he could go? i think he was.
all his BL screams to me: do not touch me...
maybe he was stuck like Brooks and Graham? Honest, i would not be surprise if we see a repeat of Brooks departure
I think peter had no choice but kiss her. i see a guy who liked rachel, a woman he could have met anywhere, had a nice chat.... but was stuck in this bubble, could not get out, did not want to get out too soon, knew it and just pace his time to leave before fantasy date

for me peter could be F3

jmoaau

Well said.    It has nothing to do with race imo.   Initial attraction isn't based on race. Its something I believe happens naturally regardless of race.  I am a WOC  & I personally don't find Peter, Josiah, Eric and many others  attractive. Nothing wrong with them at all--its just that they are not my cup of tea.  All what I'm trying to say is that maybe Peter feels that Rachel isn't his cup of tea and it has nothing to do with Rachel being a WOC . imo.  I absolutely don't think that Peter is looking at this as a race issue at all. Maybe its just a matter of  Boy meets Girl  and Boy doesn't feel it !!  Nothing wrong with that!  AJMO

I agree. I find many of the men this season some of the handsomest of all seasons and the men I am referring to are not of my race. TBH I did not find any of the MOW (men of white LOL) especially attractive this season. JMOAA.

lleyki wrote:
The thing is though that not everyone who thinks Peter doesn't seem into Rachel is basing that on the bolded agenda. Ignorant people with ignorant viewpoints will always exist. That is the sad reality of the world we live in. However, I believe for the most part that on this board, the people who don't think Peter seems as into Rachel, that opinion has nothing to do with thinking someone as good looking as him could never be into her. And in fact, many who don't think he's into her don't seem as impressed with him as others. I am of course including myself in that.

I understand the point you are making but as a black woman it frustrates me and I apologize in advance for this maybe being off topic because there are so many deeper issues at play here. But let me just say this. I am a person who has and still believes that Peter has never seemed as into Rachel as she is into him. It's just how I see things from what the editing has shown. And I stress about the editing because I'm well aware of how manipulated this show can be but it's all I have to go on. And from what I've seen I just don't feel like he seems that into her and I hate that from the moment that was expressed by myself and others, it gets twisted into a racial thing, in thinking that a white guy as hot as Peter can't be into black Rachel.

And that is so far from the reality for me and I suspect for many others. Because the fact is many people have thought contestants weren't into the lead for many seasons but obviously with the different element of this season, suddenly it's like there's a hesitation to say that. And that's not fair. Also, I am uncomfortable with the projection of Peter wanting Rachel by some. I get visibility and seeing something on screen that resonates but I am uncomfortable with what I feel like is seeking some sort of validation in Peter wanting Rachel by some. Like somehow it makes one as a black woman feel worthy and I call b.s. on that because I'm sorry but nice as Peter seems, he's just some decently looking guy who is a personal trainer. No, that's not me dismissing his career or talent but the fact is he's certainly no hero or superstar or some great amazing human changing the world. He's just some average guy. So I just don't see why his wanting or not wanting Rachel should speak to anything deeper than that.

And finally, let me just say that we have seen Rachel be seen as desirable and worthy of pursuit. We've seen it from the first episode. You know from the guy who basically has gone after her with full focus from the first episode. And he's been accused of being smarmy, slimy, a player, etc. So some feeling like Peter doesn't seem as into Rachel isn't in my opinion about the disappointment of not seeing an African American woman be desired and chased on a major network show but that it's disappointing because it's not being done by the guy that most people favored even before the season started and projected their feelings and fantasy onto.

This is of course all my opinion and I understand like I said above if some of this is off topic.

I could have bolded this whole post, well said. Re the bolded parts, is exactly what this forum is all about. We sleuth and we post our opinions. We should not apologize for our findings. If the sleuthing is bursting fantasy bubbles, that should not be an issue we need to deal with that takes away the fun of sleuthing. We try to accommodate everyone. The fan threads are there to sleuth, swoon and  post exactly how one feels about a contestant. They have been created in order for the sleuthing threads to be used for just that, sleuthing. Member should not have to hesitate and think about how to express opinions for fear that we may hurt someone's feelings that is fanning over a contestant. If the comments are so hurtful to read, there are deeper issues IMHO. If I want to say that Peter seems hesitant to touch her,  I'm going to say that. It has nothing to do whether I like him or not or anything to do with race.

For example. The monkey jump. That's what it's called. It's been called that for years. Suddenly it's a race issue and we are talked about on other forums as being racist. The monkey jump has zero to do with race. I'm not going to stop calling it the monkey jump because some choose to use that as a weapon against us. Rachel clearly does not do the monkey jump when she greets Peter. He lifts her up which looks like an attempt to complete the jump, and she tucks her knees ups. This has been done season after season, some fail miserably, some get it right, they are IMO told to do this. For some reason Rachel's monkey jump fell flat. That tells me something, and I'm going to point that out if I think so. If some feel Peter is not into Rachel, what exactly is wrong with that. If some respond in a logical non whining response, great, that's what we want. Good back and forth exchanges.

As far as posts getting deleted, they are deleted for a reason. If there's a question, pm someone, or better yet, read your pm's.

Ultimately, does it matter if Peter is into Rachel? At the end of the day, the only person's feelings that are fulfilled is the lead...even with what MF showed us between Brooks and Des didn't matter in the long run because she chose and married Chris.

So all this back and forth about what Peter feels only matters if he is chosen by Rachel. In sleuthing who is F1, I tend to look at who the lead acts differently around, regardless of spoilers. Brad could barely talk around Emily, I knew from that he didn't choose Chantal even when RS was 1000% sure.

I haven't watched this season close enough to know who Rachel acts differently with.

lleyki wrote:

bluejay25 wrote:

Dessler wrote:I am for TOG & Rachel but I like peter as well. I think he is very much into Rachel( it is quite obvious from his ITMs) but I see him being very cautious with their relationship which is very different from TOG's approach. None of this approach is better than the other, it is just a matter of personal preference  for the viewers and the degree to which the guys are willing to let go in the process. JMO

I agree. Personally, one of the reasons I was so looking forward to this season was to see a popular show celebrate black women as desirable and worthy of pursuit. It may seem dramatic to some, but even today these are not storylines and visuals that regularly occur on a "mainstream" show with AA woman as the center. That's part of the reason it's hard for me to hear people say Peter, who many people think is quite attractive, suggest "in all the numerous ways" in which is he is not into Rachel. I know Peter is not everyone's cup of tea and everyone does not think he is God's gift, so you may not understand/agree with my point about the insinuation that someone so attractive could not be interested in Rachel. Hopefully, the fact that Peter was placed on such a pedestal early on speaks to my point/gives some insight about how people view him.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions and suggestions of his disinterest have occurred on multiple platforms, so this is not directed at anyone expressing their view here in this forum. That is what we are here to do, so I aim to add another one. And, I am not accusing anyone here of saying that Peter is not interested in Rachel because she is AA (although I have seen those suggestions elsewhere). Sometimes "he's just not that into you" and that has nothing to do with race, age, whatever. But, I'm not sure if this perspective of why some are a little disheartened by such suggestions has been shared yet. It seems to really cut  into one of the whole reasons Rachel being the Bachelorette was a big deal for some, and Peter clearly makes it very far. Time will tell the reason they break up, and perhaps, it will be that reason as some have suggested. Then that will be that I guess. This JMO, it's not the easiest thing to articulate, so I apologize if I've offended anyone.

The thing is though that not everyone who thinks Peter doesn't seem into Rachel is basing that on the bolded agenda. Ignorant people with ignorant viewpoints will always exist. That is the sad reality of the world we live in. However, I believe for the most part that on this board, the people who don't think Peter seems as into Rachel, that opinion has nothing to do with thinking someone as good looking as him could never be into her. And in fact, many who don't think he's into her don't seem as impressed with him as others. I am of course including myself in that.

I understand the point you are making but as a black woman it frustrates me and I apologize in advance for this maybe being off topic because there are so many deeper issues at play here. But let me just say this. I am a person who has and still believes that Peter has never seemed as into Rachel as she is into him. It's just how I see things from what the editing has shown. And I stress about the editing because I'm well aware of how manipulated this show can be but it's all I have to go on. And from what I've seen I just don't feel like he seems that into her and I hate that from the moment that was expressed by myself and others, it gets twisted into a racial thing, in thinking that a white guy as hot as Peter can't be into black Rachel.

And that is so far from the reality for me and I suspect for many others. Because the fact is many people have thought contestants weren't into the lead for many seasons but obviously with the different element of this season, suddenly it's like there's a hesitation to say that. And that's not fair. Also, I am uncomfortable with the projection of Peter wanting Rachel by some. I get visibility and seeing something on screen that resonates but I am uncomfortable with what I feel like is seeking some sort of validation in Peter wanting Rachel by some. Like somehow it makes one as a black woman feel worthy and I call b.s. on that because I'm sorry but nice as Peter seems, he's just some decently looking guy who is a personal trainer. No, that's not me dismissing his career or talent but the fact is he's certainly no hero or superstar or some great amazing human changing the world. He's just some average guy. So I just don't see why his wanting or not wanting Rachel should speak to anything deeper than that.

And finally, let me just say that we have seen Rachel be seen as desirable and worthy of pursuit. We've seen it from the first episode. You know from the guy who basically has gone after her with full focus from the first episode. And he's been accused of being smarmy, slimy, a player, etc. So some feeling like Peter doesn't seem as into Rachel isn't in my opinion about the disappointment of not seeing an African American woman be desired and chased on a major network show but that it's disappointing because it's not being done by the guy that most people favored even before the season started and projected their feelings and fantasy onto.

This is of course all my opinion and I understand like I said above if some of this is off topic.

@lleyki Beautifully written post. Thanks for sharing. Spot on IMO.
JMO

Bet2Win wrote:Ultimately, does it matter if Peter is into Rachel?  At the end of the day, the only person's feelings that are fulfilled is the lead...even with what MF showed us between Brooks and Des didn't matter in the long run because she chose and married Chris.

So all this back and forth about what Peter feels only matters if he is chosen by Rachel.  In sleuthing who is F1, I tend to look at who the lead acts differently around, regardless of spoilers. Brad could barely talk around Emily, I knew from that he didn't choose Chantal even when RS was 1000% sure.  

I haven't watched this season close enough to know who Rachel acts differently with.

You're exactly right, Bet. It doesn't matter imo. I think he is but I don't know his true feelings. Rachel at this point in the show seems to be sure about his feelings for her and also appears to be very into him. It may just be that she prefers another guy by the end if that's how it goes down.

The way i see it, while BL is cleary off (no matter the reason), nobody is addressing this as an issue on the show for now.
Which makes me think even more that he might not be F1 because that would be gold for prod to sell a doubt story line early on.

Even in the epi 7 description, they talked about Peter questioning the relationship and not Rachel. So in a sleuthing perspective, this is definitely something to put into not F1 clue list.

With that said, I personally don't know or even think about his motives or exact feelings when i try to comprehend his cautiousness when sleuthing. In the sleuthing perspective, I just think it is something worth noticing as much as Rachel behaviour towards him is.
But if we have to go there, i don't think it has anything to do with Rachel being WOC (i am woc myself).

Also Peter might be head over heels for her as some are seeing it but honestly, it is not the way it is translated to us with what they choose to show us for now. That might change though.
But again as a sleuther, i find it curious that since first date we are not getting that shared feelings as clearly as in all of the other seasons. I honestly can't recall one season, worldwide, where the first date with the F1 does not show clear and indisputable mutual attraction (i'm not even talking about deep feelings here).
If there is, i would love to go back, watch and compare.

PS: I'm team Rachel more than anything and i just want to be able to get onboard of whatever F1 and love story we are shown this season. So yeah, really want to sleuth till the end even though i was more swayed toward Bryan watching unspoiled.
All JMO.