Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* - #3

LCD usually have a day and a night portion. The evening portion is in the F1 or F2 hotel room and is not an overnight date. The lead always leaves. We have never had a lead get through the day portion of LCD to just cancel the night portion.

Ali canceled all of Chris's LCD and Emily sent Arie home during the day portion, but let him get part way in and even make a love potion. Andi dumped Nick the morning after their LCD. Kaitlyn and JoJo's F2s both made it to the FRC.

I honestly have no idea what happens. I believe the crying could be night portion of LCD, JoJo did that when Ben told her he had told Lauren ILY too. Does it end that night? Does Peter has an epiphany and demand the chance to pick a ring and show up at FRC? I have no idea. I believe the sleuthing done here, that Bryan is F1. I am looking forward to his proposal. Other than that and Eric being F3, I have no idea. JMO.

I think they get thru the Day part of the LCD. It is when she returns that evening that she lets him go. I think he sealed his faith with his answers when they were talking with the Priest. She looks confused and unsure.

Do we know for sure what order the LCDs were in? Or even the FS dates? I looked at the filming sleuthing thread and it wasn't filled in.

FashionLover wrote:I'm up late for work and bored, so obviously my mind is all over the place and I have some questions.

There's something fishy about peter and rachel. Somethings just don't add up in my head.

From the preview, it seems like Rachel is basically talking to peter at the f3 rose ceremony cause her words only apply to him, "I did not come here to find a boyfriend" (paraphrased) instead of the normal mantra she gives of "to the guy I'm about to send home..."

Why have peter stay beyond f3 if he wasn't gonna propose and he'd already come far enough to be bachelor if indeed that's why he was still around?

If peter does indeed have the last LCD, literally before the FRC, why go through with the whole date into the night session before breaking up with him if she already knew she was gonna be engaged to Bryan THE NEXT DAY? why not breakup with him after the visit to the church where he was seemingly still adamant about not proposing?

I understand crying during a breakup, but why would someone be so gut wrenched to the point where they think they're making a mistake if they're already certain that the person whose proposal they're going to accept was always the one?

Just me and my late night/early morning thoughts. Maybe I'm sleep deprived but all this makes it hard for me to believe rachel was all about Bryan from week5/6

Which season was it where the lead kept everyone and then sent home an additional one the very next date, was it this season? It's been so long? Rachel does say that this season is a season of firsts. Could she talk to Peter at the F3 RC and then decide to send no-one home? I know it's a stretch, but that would answer why she kept Peter as we see he has a LCD. I also know we don't have an extra SC's of Eric to show that he has a LCD either. It's very confusing at this point to me. Although knowing that Peter isn't there yet and Eric is may make it easier for Rachel to dump at the FRC.

Just some rambling thoughts on what is an exhausting season for me, it seems to have dragged on and on.

@gurlbrit Des Kept both Chris and Drew at this stage and then eliminated Drew during the LCD date. Does that count ?

gurlbrit wrote:

FashionLover wrote:I'm up late for work and bored, so obviously my mind is all over the place and I have some questions.

There's something fishy about peter and rachel. Somethings just don't add up in my head.

From the preview, it seems like Rachel is basically talking to peter at the f3 rose ceremony cause her words only apply to him, "I did not come here to find a boyfriend" (paraphrased) instead of the normal mantra she gives of "to the guy I'm about to send home..."

Why have peter stay beyond f3 if he wasn't gonna propose and he'd already come far enough to be bachelor if indeed that's why he was still around?

If peter does indeed have the last LCD, literally before the FRC, why go through with the whole date into the night session before breaking up with him if she already knew she was gonna be engaged to Bryan THE NEXT DAY? why not breakup with him after the visit to the church where he was seemingly still adamant about not proposing?

I understand crying during a breakup, but why would someone be so gut wrenched to the point where they think they're making a mistake if they're already certain that the person whose proposal they're going to accept was always the one?

Just me and my late night/early morning thoughts. Maybe I'm sleep deprived but all this makes it hard for me to believe rachel was all about Bryan from week5/6

Which season was it where the lead kept everyone and then sent home an additional one the very next date, was it this season?  It's been so long?  Rachel does say that this season is a season of firsts.  Could she talk to Peter at the F3 RC and then decide to send no-one home?  I know it's a stretch, but that would answer why she kept Peter as we see he has a LCD.  I also know we don't have an extra SC's of Eric to show that he has a LCD either.  It's very confusing at this point to me.  Although knowing that Peter isn't there yet and Eric is may make it easier for Rachel to dump at the FRC.

Just some rambling thoughts on what is an exhausting season for me, it seems to have dragged on and on.

They are being stingy with the previews and sc especially with Bryan. It just didn't make sense to carry a F3 RC to the finale, like you say dragging it out. Yeah That speech doesn't make sense.

May thoughts are that R eliminates Eric at F3, goes for an LCD with Peter and then in the evening portation they talk and cry and she eliminates him (SCs in the rain).

OR he eliminates himself. I didn't see anyone posting this, maybe I missed it.
IMO that is more likely because he isn't feeling it blah blah and that will gaurantee to turn the overwhelming love for P to an avalanche on SM. He will be the conquoring hero for doing the right thing and folks will say that Bryan was the default F1.

JMO>

nd4reality wrote:May thoughts are that R eliminates Eric at F3, goes for an LCD with Peter and then in the evening portation they talk and cry and she eliminates him (SCs in the rain).

OR he eliminates himself. I didn't see anyone posting this, maybe I missed it.
IMO that is more likely because he isn't feeling it blah blah and that will gaurantee to turn the overwhelming love for P to an avalanche on SM. He will be the conquoring hero for doing the right thing and folks will say that Bryan was the default F1.

JMO>

Wouldn't that be full circle for Peter and be foreshadowing from his talk during his HTD where he discussed how traumatic it was letting that other relationship go to the point of tears. I can see him telling Rachel he has go, we see him crying on the floor, and then we see her walking outside in the rain crying. Full circle and ties in the HTD talk with the ex.

nd4reality wrote:

OR he eliminates himself. I didn't see anyone posting this, maybe I missed it.
IMO that is more likely because he isn't feeling it blah blah and that will gaurantee to turn the overwhelming love for P to an avalanche on SM. He will be the conquoring hero for doing the right thing and folks will say that Bryan was the default F1.

JMO>

I have no problem with Bryan being the default F1! (just joking people - remember we are here to have fun)

Just my opinion... I think she lets Peter go.

Because in the previews in the rain, she says, "I don't want to repeat what I've done in every single relationship." That means that's her self-awareness driving her and her growth, it would seem.

Combine that with Peter saying something about not wanting to give up on her, right? That all seems like Rachel sort of has to be the one to initiate their ending, doesn't it? Even if it's a mutual decision by the end?

That all dovetails in to her interview with ABC News where she said: "and I run toward the one that's more complicated, and who I can fix and we can work on it together."

I truly believe, as much as she knew it was Bryan, that didn't make it as easy for her as it might seem given her default behaviors.

She told Bryan very clearly on one of their dates that she never believes in the good when it happens to her as far as relationships, and she's scared of the good, because she's afraid of putting herself out there, being vulnerable, and getting hurt.

She basically has spelled out for us all season Bryan is the one who has the power to hurt her the most and who she fears the most. She kept saying, "what scares me..." in regards to him. And she keeps saying post show, "it's scary, because he's exactly who he said he is." Bryan was her biggest fear/risk, imo. Precisely because he had it all together, loved her, wanted her, courted her the whole time, and kept telling her he wasn't going to let her sabotage them.

She knows how to do relationships where she runs towards a complicated situation, she can fix it, they can work together to fix it, etc. Peter, even without a proposal, would have been the safer choice for Rachel because she knows that terrain and she doesn't see it as the same type of emotional/vulnerability risk, imo.

The huge risk for Rachel was truly letting herself believe in the good. Or in this case, the too good to be true. The huge risk was after all those years of believing she couldn't have it all and settling for those types of relationships... the risk was that.. that she could, and it was right there, and it was real. To truly believe that the guy who was everything she wanted, wanted her back, wanted the life she wanted with her.

When you're afraid to just let go and believe, and when you run towards complicated, I get why you'd say you fear you are making a mistake when you finally find the courage to break the pattern, and I get why you'd have a meltdown when you're letting your default setting go, in this case, Peter and that relationship. That's a lot. That's huge.

Knowing, wanting, and acting on are totally different things. Listening to your heart, trusting your heart, and following your heart are not the same as knowing what it wants. I think this all goes to Chris' early comments about how Rachel almost plotted on herself trying to overthink it.

I think the Peter break-up will be emotional for her, but I still think she initiates it, and I don't think the emotion is necessarily even going to be ALL about Peter, as much as it is her breaking through. Finally. Breaking your bad habit cycle is a huge effing deal and... scary. She'll be sad about Peter, of course, I take nothing away from that, but given how much they've divulged, I think it's easy to see why she'd be so emotional and so scared for way deeper reasons. She was running towards her biggest risk despite it being "easy" or "guaranteed" to her... as far as her insecurities, it was anything but.

Just my opinion. Can they give us some previews though? Jeez.

IMO, some of Rachel's recent comments, particularly the ABC News one after the last episode, give absolute clarity to what happened. For those who don't know what I'm referring to, it's this interview.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/bachelorette-admits-worried-uncomplicated-relationships-boring/story?id=48835166

And here are some of the relevant quotes.

"I knew it, but I was running away from it because that's what I do in real life," Lindsay said. "I run away from the one who is good on paper -- the one who has it all together -- and I run toward the one that's more complicated, and who I can fix and we can work on it together."

"That was my thing: if it's so easy, it's boring or something's not right," she continued. "Life is hard so why does my relationship have to be hard at the same time? We will have hard moments -- we're two different people -- but why does it have to be so hard? Why can't it be easy? And let me just tell you: it's not boring."

To me that lays it all out clearly. She admits that she second-guessed for a long time because she kept seeing something in the other person that made her see potential for them, which I assume is Peter. I for one have no issues with thinking this was a season where the lead was truly into more than one person. Des flat out said she was in love with Brooks and she still ended up happily married and in love with Chris.

To me, Rachel's words in that interview spell out the situation quite blatantly. Like many people, men and women, she's been a victim in the past of believing that the more dramatic and painful and difficult a relationship, the more real and true it is. Because that means it's passionate and intense. While at the same time, these people tend to believe easy and calm relationships equal boring and passionless.

So she struggled with the battle of going for what she's done in the past and going after a Peter who was a "challenge" and it's so hard that it must be real versus Bryan who it was just so easy with and who she was completely happy with, convincing herself it meant it wasn't real and he was "too good to be true"". Eventually she realizes what she says in the interview, that why do things have to be so hard right from the start. Every relationship has issues sure but if things are already such a struggle, how is that love?

Not to mention, as I referenced in another post, her quote that the issues with Peter left her feeling insecure because it reminded her of so many failed relationships she'd had where the guys were essentially telling her how amazing and wonderful and brilliant she was but she still wasn't good enough to commit to. And I'm sorry, if anyone makes you feel not good enough, that is not love and it's time to keep it moving.

And in my opinion, that's what she realized and made a decision that was right for her. As for all the boo-hooing we see in the previews, well we don't know what Peter says when she comes to end things. Maybe he pulls a 25th hour "I love you", confusing her and her feelings. And people need to remember that the bubble these people are in can take a toll, especially at that late stage of the season. The lead is sleep deprived, emotions are running high, etc. All that matters is that Rachel seems more than happy and confident in her decision post-filming. All, JMO.

eta: Perfectly said @likeashipblown

@likeashipblown

Wow I agree with every single word. Especially when you say Peter was the safer risk and she feared making a mistake because she was not going for what she was used to.