Re: Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* - #3

by Guest Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:20 am

HEA wrote:I understand what you are saying but I honestly feel that it is Rachel chasing him and not the reverse. There are probably many reasons that explain why he looks stiff and reserved but at the end of the day I felt the friendship but not the lover IMHO. Rachel does not hesitate to kiss when she likes a guy. And for me Bryan took the bar pretty high from the start IMO.

From the start I believe that we have another good on paper versus bad boy edit. I do remember that each date is chosen by the prods, not her, never her. I do not believe she decided it was Peter first 1-1. I do not believe she looked all around LA and decided to have a dog feast and fireworks IMO. Prods decided and planned all details carefully IMO. I do not even believe with a step back that the conversation they had about moving etc was special. I think she asked the same questions to ALL the 1-1 because at the end of the day the conversation is quite the same, different people only IMO. BUT the prods decided to show us this segment and I am wondering, again, if this is part of the edits to show us Peter committed to move to Dallas early on and vice et versa, in order for us to put him on our top list favorites? Why am I saying this? Because Bryan clearly said that Rachel had no problem to express herself with him (not verbatim) when Eric said he, on the other hand, had issues. Which means that prods decided to do NOT show us this connection between Rachel and Bryan IMO and if they did not show this conversation, why? Why the prods would edit Peter one way and Bryan another, mostly hiding this connection IMO?

I am not saying Peter is not a good guy. I am saying that his connection with Rachel is not sincerely authentic IMO. The edits show him a bit too perfect. I am sure when he commit to somebody he IS a sincere and genuine guy IMO. Even if I said Peter looks not sincere, for me it means that he is not 100% open to Rachel and therefore he does not look natural, therefore not sincere IMO My question is why did he accept to participate? This is the kind of guy that I imagine watching carefully the previous season and being a smart guy, he probably saw the shenanigans, edits etc of the show. Being very reserved and collected, why did he want to participate anyway? I do not see the carefree fun adventurous move in him to do it. I am sincerely curious here.

Bryan on the other hand is edited to make us think that he may be a bad guy IMO. may be, not is. Just to give us doubts. Why did they keep the segment between Lee and him on the sofa (Lee being the bully and a$$)... why did the prods kept the segment between Bryan and Eric (Eric rambling and being a drama queen with his insecurities)??? I am positive if the prods fount Bryan badmouthing, they would have added the segment to confuse us. But so far, even trying to push Bryan to talk to them (can you hear them saying: hey Bryan, why don't you go there and talk with Lee a little bit... or Eric). Manipulations? Heck yeah! IMHO. It is obvious to me that the prods tried to associate Bryan with the annoying contestants so we have an image of himself IMO and it is very possible that unconsciously some of us will associate the same irritating attitude with the people around the events IMO. So again...my question is why did the prods do that on ep2 and ep3 when we know for a fact that Rachel like Bryan a lot (first kiss, FIR)... all here is JMO

This is what bother me. The prods are editing both guys differently IMO. On top of not offering any date SD and GD to Bryan ep1. The Ellen GD was not especially the place to talk either.

Peter: I am sure there will be dancing in there and I hope I will not make a fool of myself in the process

Bryan: I am figuring there will be some dance. I'll make a complete fool of myself on line but whatever I do but what impress Rachel

and that is the main difference IMO. Negative versus positive attitude IMO although this is a bit excessive. The opposite characters in full motion: introvert versus extrovert. IMO

I totally understand that we all see different things and that is totally fine. The edits reach us differently and we all relate to the contestants differently too.

JMOAA

**edited**

The most curious thing to me is seeing the strong impact that IMO, RS has had here, which is far greater than I expected. IMHO,The whole forum dynamic changed after his second spoiler, that is obvious by reading the different threads. I still don't understand why this happened, since RS has not been particularly revealing this season, and IMO, he took some information from this forum's sleuthers, some of those sleuthers are no longer posting here.

Guys, for those of you who are discouraged, hearsay are not facts, RS is only as good as his sources, and a serious analysis cannot be based on so-called-spoilers, personal interpretations of someone's motives/personality, or 'facts' published by cheap tabloids, otherwise where is the science behind it? **edited** IMO, most of the evidence supporting Bryan as F1 falls into the category of argumentum ex silentio, as this is what I read often, and relying on argumentum ex silentio is very weak, especially considering there are a few things about Bryan that do not fit with F1 behaviour and edit, at all.

by Guest Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:35 am

HEA wrote:I understand what you are saying but I honestly feel that it is Rachel chasing him and not the reverse. There are probably many reasons that explain why he looks stiff and reserved but at the end of the day I felt the friendship but not the lover IMHO. Rachel does not hesitate to kiss when she likes a guy. And for me Bryan took the bar pretty high from the start IMO.

From the start I believe that we have another good on paper versus bad boy edit. I do remember that each date is chosen by the prods, not her, never her. I do not believe she decided it was Peter first 1-1. I do not believe she looked all around LA and decided to have a dog feast and fireworks IMO. Prods decided and planned all details carefully IMO. I do not even believe with a step back that the conversation they had about moving etc was special. I think she asked the same questions to ALL the 1-1 because at the end of the day the conversation is quite the same, different people only IMO. BUT the prods decided to show us this segment and I am wondering, again, if this is part of the edits to show us Peter committed to move to Dallas early on and vice et versa, in order for us to put him on our top list favorites? Why am I saying this? Because Bryan clearly said that Rachel had no problem to express herself with him (not verbatim) when Eric said he, on the other hand, had issues. Which means that prods decided to do NOT show us this connection between Rachel and Bryan IMO and if they did not show this conversation, why? Why the prods would edit Peter one way and Bryan another, mostly hiding this connection IMO?

I am not saying Peter is not a good guy. I am saying that his connection with Rachel is not sincerely authentic IMO. The edits show him a bit too perfect. I am sure when he commit to somebody he IS a sincere and genuine guy IMO. Even if I said Peter looks not sincere, for me it means that he is not 100% open to Rachel and therefore he does not look natural, therefore not sincere IMO My question is why did he accept to participate? This is the kind of guy that I imagine watching carefully the previous season and being a smart guy, he probably saw the shenanigans, edits etc of the show. Being very reserved and collected, why did he want to participate anyway? I do not see the carefree fun adventurous move in him to do it. I am sincerely curious here.

Bryan on the other hand is edited to make us think that he may be a bad guy IMO. may be, not is. Just to give us doubts. Why did they keep the segment between Lee and him on the sofa (Lee being the bully and a$$)... why did the prods kept the segment between Bryan and Eric (Eric rambling and being a drama queen with his insecurities)??? I am positive if the prods fount Bryan badmouthing, they would have added the segment to confuse us. But so far, even trying to push Bryan to talk to them (can you hear them saying: hey Bryan, why don't you go there and talk with Lee a little bit... or Eric). Manipulations? Heck yeah! IMHO. It is obvious to me that the prods tried to associate Bryan with the annoying contestants so we have an image of himself IMO and it is very possible that unconsciously some of us will associate the same irritating attitude with the people around the events IMO. So again...my question is why did the prods do that on ep2 and ep3 when we know for a fact that Rachel like Bryan a lot (first kiss, FIR)... all here is JMO

This is what bother me. The prods are editing both guys differently IMO. On top of not offering any date SD and GD to Bryan ep1. The Ellen GD was not especially the place to talk either.

Peter: I am sure there will be dancing in there and I hope I will not make a fool of myself in the process

Bryan: I am figuring there will be some dance. I'll make a complete fool of myself on line but whatever I do but what impress Rachel

and that is the main difference IMO. Negative versus positive attitude IMO although this is a bit excessive. The opposite characters in full motion: introvert versus extrovert. IMO

I totally understand that we all see different things and that is totally fine. The edits reach us differently and we all relate to the contestants differently too.

JMOAA

I think Peter did say he didnt really watch the show as opposed to Bryan is a ardent Bachelor watcher from his bio (What is your favorite television show and why? Sports Center. I love sports and love talking sports with my friends, so I get most information from that show and sports talk radio. And believe it or not, The Bachelor/Bachelorette series.)

Peter is naive and does not understand how the show works which I appreciate. He is being himself which is refreshing! No need to wax poetic and profess to be in love with Rachel after 1 date. IF he watched the show, he would have gotten that script and played along. The guy didnt even know about the interviews done during the dates! IMO he is finding his feet, getting to know the girl and not giving the usual bachelor speech or play. I love that about him. I'd bet Bryan will be very into and probably half in love with Rachel after his 1 on 1. One isnt better than the other, just different. I know what I prefer and Rachel knows what she prefers too. JMO

http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelorette/cast/bryan-2017

by mysthelma Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:37 am

**IMO**This forum does not give two tosses about RS and no one here regards his spoilers as facts, that is why season sleuthers on this forum continue to sleuth base on what is shown till the very end. That is why some of us enjoy this forum.

I don't necessary believe that RS second spoiler changed anything on this forum. IMO people root for the f1 if they like the lead and want her happiness. It doesn't matter at the end of the day be it Bryan or Peter if it's real and Rachel is happy her fans will root for them.

by Guest Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:05 am

I personally dont see being self conscious or image conscious as a bad thing. What is wrong in minding how you talk, behave on tv? Isnt that the first rule every parent teaches their kids? I remember my folks drumming the importance of presenting the best versions of yourself when in public. It taught me self control and respect for self. From all indications (his IG and FB comments of friends, people interviewed in in home town, and even the guys on the show! Peter in real life isnt any different from who he is on the show. A nice gentleman.

I would hope and suggest everyone going on a reality tv show do their utmost to protect their image!! But by the same token, notoriety also has its benefits.
All JMO

by chocolatebrownies Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:12 am

To each his own. I frankly do not subscribe to the view that one has to be a certain kind of personality in order to stand out on a show like this or to be a part of a show like this. Infact I find it darn boring when people are boxed into how they should be when it comes to these reality shows. There are all kinds of personalities out there. This notion that only someone who is "carefree" or "outgoing" is a natural fit for a show like this or is "sincere" is not something I agree with. There are all kinds of people out there , all kinds of personality traits man. I never once found Peter lacking in sincerity when it comes to his interactions with Rachel. If anything what has stood out to me is the fact that you don't get to see personalities like his that often in these reality shows. Him being reserved or perhaps taking a little time to open up is something I have found endearing for a lack of a better term. Because the truth of the matter is that's how things are often when it comes to real life as well.

As for a good edit vs a bad edit , honestly the makers can try all they want when it comes to these edits , at the end of the day nobody can put on an act for too long. But since we are talking about edits , they will only edit what you give them. People are going to judge you not only based on what they see on screen but also how you come across in general when it comes to other public platforms.

When it comes to the Ellen show , again him stating on camera that he was nervous as hell was something that I found very earnest. The thing that makes Peter stand out for me is that I don't see him trying too hard which is what I find extremely attractive. That whole segment on Ellen just corroborated that further for me. Then again it's all a matter of what your personal preference is.

JMHO.

by Guest Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:15 am

mysthelma wrote: *IMO*This forum does not give two tosses about RS and no one here regards his spoilers as facts, that is why season sleuthers on this forum continue to sleuth base on what is shown till the very end. That is why some of us enjoy this forum. .

**EDIT**This forum has, I believe, more than 7,000 users and I did see some changing their mind right after the second spoilers, so I actually have proof that some users did take RT's words as facts and I can post that proof anytime. I recalled some publicly admitting it. **EDIT** I recall the moderators here saying we speak for ourselves not for the whole community. **EDIT**I can see why the moderators and the administrator deem as extremely important to write 'IMO' as much as possible, here.

by bluejay25 Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:29 am

As someone who was "cheering"/rooting on Peter and Rachel during pre-season sleuthing and during filming of the show (and still cheers on their relationship), and observed debates and researching during preseason, for what it is worth, IMO, I do not think it is RS "changed" most minds on here about who F1 is. From what I've gathered many on here do not care for RS, so I don't think it was a factor for them. In fact, many people on here actually thought the first spoiler on Peter as F1 was wrong in the first place. They actually kept questioning RS first spoiler because they believed during preseason filming Bryan was more likely the F1.

I have to say, personally, I do think it should be noted that RS has yet to be incorrect once he has released a second spoiler (He was wrong about his first spoiler Des season, was enlightened to Kaitlyn, but when he changes it, thus far it's been pretty accurate). But, I understand that may not mean anything to some, and if he was to be "wrong again/right initially" I guess this could be the season.

But for me, along with a few others I think, I was pleasantly surprised in the first place when RS said that Peter was F1. I thought something was there and Peter seems great, but was surprised because I thought the preseason photos and videos portrayed more of an intimacy and comfort between Bryan and Rachel (I am referring to Bryan's 1-1 and Bryan's HTD in particular). I agree that these are just snippets which is why when Peter was announced as F1, I took it to mean, maybe more developed between them after HTD or he was just uncomfortable in front of camera and dozens of people on his HTD. But, after seeing Peter and Rachel's first date, I felt like the body language between the two was still at that stage during HTD.

I actually think Peter and Rachel had a lovely first date, and I think many casual viewers did too, which is why (even regardless of first spoiler) so many are predicting him to win. However, I think it's important to note the stages of intimacy portrayed in the photos/videos that were observed preseason. Who was doing what farther along in the process? This is not to suggest that relationships are just about physicality because they are not, but being relaxed and not-so-aware and at ease are indicators of an advanced relationship. I hope to see Peter and Rachel get to that stage. I don't judge their relationship for not being lovey dovey within days of meeting each other. But, that does not mean I should not note, whether I want to believe RS or not, what BL looked like between Rachel and X on later dates.

Aside from the photos and videos, I personally think that there is just stronger circumstantial evidence that points to Bryan. I admire/respect all the theories and sleuthing that Peter and Rachel fans have put forth and I agree that it's strange how often they are online together. But, I also wonder if the lack of online presence with Bryan is coloring that or if we were too look at other contestants maybe they are concidentally also online as same time as Rachel or how often is Peter online when Rachel is not, and vice versa - I think that would give a clearer picture between pattern and happenstance.

But, there is clearly a documented pattern in Bachelorette F1s to note. In recent seasons, and sometimes beyond F1s get the 5th date. There are time periods that Bryan, Rachel, and Peter can be accounted for and not accounted for. There are ways that SHVs have been conducted in the past (a way that has yet to change because of someone's specific profession, and further would be odd to have in a hometown with someone who seemingly spotted every time he goes out because of how "small" his hometown is)

This is not to say that people should change their minds to Bryan as F1. Of course, everyone should have their opinion and keep researching. My point is that for me RS is more of a confirming piece of the puzzle, and as far as I can see on this forum, not even a piece on the board for others who also think Bryan is F1.

Sorry for long post! Great discussion and finds this weekend everyone! All JMO.

by Kashathediva Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:57 am

Interesting discussion.
I am going to encourage posters to play nicely, not call each other out, utilize the IMO.
My opinion, I could not care less what RS says.
Everyone here has a right to their opinion. Everyone here has a right to post their opinion(within our rules).
I believe regardless of what RS does or does not come out to say, there will be fans of the show that will back the dark horse (or underdog) and fans that back the winner. That is human nature.
BTW, IMO brevity rules!

by Guest Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:04 am

@Girl Born To Travel

I stayed in the non spoiled thread until few days back. I did not see SM, I did not read RS. I did not read the spoiled thread here. I stayed un-spoiled and made a point to remain un-spoiled as much as possible and just concentrate on edits only. If I left it is only because not many members decided to join us there and I am a chatty person.

The IMO are just a way to do not chock people here. Every time we say something if IMO or JMO or IMHO etc is not added to each phrase, it can hurt people's feeling. It is a rule that the mods asked us to follow. I am french mother tongue and most of the time this IMO does not come naturally and I add in randomly. Yes I add them a lot but mostly because I never really know when I need to put them or not.

Finally you can use all the words of the dictionary and Latin words, everyone is entitled to their opinion and share them on this forum. That is what a forum is about: sharing different opinion. It happens that sometimes I think alike X one season and the next I will think differently and personally I just do what I do each season: I show up at the premiere and move on at the FRC. This is a choice I make. Because I disagree with somebody does not mean I do not respect this person. I am into BL and SC and edits. If I am wrong, I am wrong (and this happens a lot BTW). But if I am right, then I am childish enough to be happy like a kid. No big deal in my book. I am 54 and I do not care much if people think I am silly. I do not think anyone needs a lesson of vocabulary or any lecture IMO

Because at the end of the day it is a TV reality show, scripted, edited, showing us very little of who are those contestants in RL.

JMOAA

by BachIsMyGuiltyPleasure Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:30 am

Just my 2 cents...IMO Peter's "self-conciousness" described above comes from a place of insecurity not vanity... I learned a lot about eating disorders from my college bff and she came across really similiar (and she was stunning as well!). Rachel says she likes to keep it 100 and I feel like I'm seeing that with her top 2!

by Guest Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:48 am

@HEA Moi aussi ! Smiley

by **GuardianAngel** Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:18 am

Everyone has a right to express their opinions. If those opinions are too harsh for you to read because it's negative against your favourite, or it's not a post that you agree with, then I suggest you stay in the Fan threads. Just because a member doesn't agree with a post, it doesn't mean they can be rude and condescending to members.

We will not accept members questioning anyone's opinions just because they don't agree with the post.

The topic is Rachel Lindsay, it's not how to properly compose a post within the English language. It's not a topic of Sleuthing 101 and what we should and shouldn't do. There are those who believe RS and those who do not. Just because RS changed his spoiled information, doesn't mean that EVERYONE changed their minds. Do not speak for everyone. We are all individuals with our own opinions.

If you're not familiar with the Rules, take the time to read them in full.

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