Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #2

by Bobette Tue May 16, 2017 7:19 am

Something just occurred to me re: the overnight date cards. Zac gives Lily the date card and watches her intently while she reads it and seems eager to hear her response. She thinks about it, has a bit of a dilemma, tells him she's not comfortable with it, but he can have "all of this" if she's there at the end. All her decision, and a wise one too IMO.

But then with Viarni (and Claudia) before they even get chance to decide, Zac says he's not comfortable with spending the night and he doesn't think it's appropriate. The ITM of Viarni shows her saying she thinks she "made the right decision" but really, there was no decision to be made, because Zac had already vetoed the idea from the outset.

So I'm wondering, how should we interpret this?

My first reaction is that Lily is F1, and perhaps Zac is such a nice guy that he would have felt like he was cheating on her by spending the night with the other two and hence didn't really want to give them the overnight option. But what if Viarni is his intended F1 and he didn't want to have a sleepover because he didn't want to spoil or rush things?

That would put the Lily date card in a while different light for me. If he wasn't planning to make her F1, was he just going to see if he could "get it while he had the chance?" That would be such a douche move! Up till now I've thought of Zac as being a standup guy, but If Lily's not F1, I will look back on that episode with very different eyes I think.

ps, Someone suggested upthread (paraphrasing) maybe he was so shocked/bothered by Lily's reaction that he didn't want to risk the same from the others, which might be true, but if Viarni was his intended F1 I would have thought he'd still give her the option. Hoping even more now that Lily is F1 or I will be side-eying Zac a bit for that move. Suspect

by Guest Tue May 16, 2017 7:27 am

Or, he had already discussed it with V and they didnt show it on camera. He knew she would be uncomfortable.
He did leave it open for claudia, and told her he didnt want to spend the night after she said she wanted to talk and fall asleep together.

by AngelaM Tue May 16, 2017 7:32 am

I think Viarni was so uncomfortable even getting the card - (she didnt read it aloud and her facials and body language were frozen) that Zac responded so she wouldnt feel awkward.

by Bobette Tue May 16, 2017 7:37 am

Hmmmm yes I see what you're saying, but he did seem to shut the idea down very quickly with C & V, while with Lily he let her mull it over for what seemed like a reeeaaallly long time, while he drank wine and ate cheese. IMO I felt like he was hoping she would say yes, or at least he wanted to see what her decision would be, which makes sense if she is F1 but if not then... Suspect

by Guest Tue May 16, 2017 7:48 am

Who was Zac standing on the hill with on the preview for the finale? To me the dress looks like it had a pattern/different colours in it - which would go well with his multi-coloured handkerchief. JMO.

Nevermind- not a shot of the finale speech!

by Guest Tue May 16, 2017 7:59 am

bachfan05 wrote:Who was Zac standing on the hill with on the preview for the finale? To me the dress looks like it had a pattern/different colours in it - which would go well with his multi-coloured handkerchief. JMO.

That was Lily, it was shown properly in the next scene.

Zac is in love with Viarni, but he cares deeply about Lily and the other girls period IMO.
He said he didnt want Viarni to think spending or not spending the night would change anything. The show wants the girls to make the decisions but once he saw how it affected Lily he didnt want that for Viarni hence the reason he told her...lets hang. Everything he says is about making Viarni feel comfortable......thinks like
" I hope she can see with my actions that I have feelings for her"
I felt like a fraud because I couldnt give direct answers to the question her father asked. (not verbatim)
She wants reassurance and its frustrating because I can say anything( not verbatim)
Viarni is the only one he has said he has feelings for, he point blank told her brother, he has said absence makes his heart fonder, he cant wipe the grin off his face, words cant describe what he feels for her.

Yes he has connections and cares about the others, but I havent heard him say anything more than that. If I missed something please someone point me to it. IMO

by Guest Tue May 16, 2017 8:05 am

see2love wrote:
bachfan05 wrote:Who was Zac standing on the hill with on the preview for the finale? To me the dress looks like it had a pattern/different colours in it - which would go well with his multi-coloured handkerchief. JMO.

That was Lily, it was shown properly in the next scene.

Zac is in love with Viarni, but he cares deeply about Lily and the other girls period IMO.
He said he didnt want Viarni to think spending or not spending the night would change anything. The show wants the girls to make the decisions but once he saw how it affected Lily he didnt want that for Viarni hence the reason he told her...lets hang. Everything he says is about making Viarni feel comfortable......thinks like
" I hope she can see with my actions that I have feelings for her"
I felt like a fraud because I couldnt give direct answers to the question her father asked. (not verbatim)
She wants reassurance and its frustrating because I can say anything( not verbatim)
Viarni is the only one he has said he has feelings for, he point blank told her brother, he has said absence makes his heart fonder, he cant wipe the grin off his face, words cant describe what he feels for her.

Yes, I am pretty sure Viarni will be F1 for all the reasons you have stated above. Doesn't mean that I don't feel sad for Lily though - I don't want to see her devastated. I would love for it to turn out Lily as F1 but I just don't think that's going to happen. JMO.

Yes he has connections and cares about the others, but I havent heard him say anything more than that. If I missed something please someone point me to it. IMO

by djogbenyuie Tue May 16, 2017 8:55 am

see2love wrote:
bachfan05 wrote:Who was Zac standing on the hill with on the preview for the finale? To me the dress looks like it had a pattern/different colours in it - which would go well with his multi-coloured handkerchief. JMO.

That was Lily, it was shown properly in the next scene.

Zac is in love with Viarni, but he cares deeply about Lily and the other girls period IMO.
He said he didnt want Viarni to think spending or not spending the night would change anything. The show wants the girls to make the decisions but once he saw how it affected Lily he didnt want that for Viarni hence the reason he told her...lets hang. Everything he says is about making Viarni feel comfortable......thinks like
" I hope she can see with my actions that I have feelings for her"
I felt like a fraud because I couldnt give direct answers to the question her father asked. (not verbatim)
She wants reassurance and its frustrating because I can say anything( not verbatim)
Viarni is the only one he has said he has feelings for, he point blank told her brother, he has said absence makes his heart fonder, he cant wipe the grin off his face, words cant describe what he feels for her.

Yes he has connections and cares about the others, but I havent heard him say anything more than that. If I missed something please someone point me to it. IMO

I agree with this post.
He was just trying to prevent any awkward or upset emotions for V because he has seen and understand how Lily took it.
Regarding his waiting on Lily to answer, I don't feel like he was being a douchy if she is not his F1. I think he was just a bit naive about the whole night portion thing and wanted to follow the process and give the girls the chance to accept or not. I dont even think eh thought bout sex. Look this is the guy who didn't even kissed more than 5ish girls.

and I think he quickly realized it was not okay even asking the question that way.

Jmo

by LynnTa Tue May 16, 2017 9:53 am

@seetolove I agree. I too think Zac is in love with & that doesn't take away from the connections he has with the Lily. He hasn't wavered at all about how he feels about her. If anything the feelings have only intensified.IMO The guy seems to be running out of words to describe those "butterflies" that V gives him. He felt bad he wasn't allowed to give her family the honest answers and he looked distraught imo when he said there are things that he wanted to say but couldn't. IIRC Zac has only told V she is the one she sees in his future "outside of this" (the park date. I think what he said (in the last episode ) that its not about about who he can live with but who he can't live without and describing V as a dream girl (his) says it all.IMO
With that being said--I wouldn't be surprised if that ring is an engagement! It would be a 1st for the NZ Franchise --the white rose,the intruders, why not an engagement!!!

by **Sprite** Tue May 16, 2017 12:12 pm

Bobette wrote:Only Lily has been described by Zac as a butterfly on the show though so they would seem to be a reference to her, though the message remains unclear. Would certainly make sense if the butterfly turns out to be F1 but may be too much of a giveaway.

To me it would just reinforce that butterflies are free and can't be caged.

Years ago on Ali's season we had sort of a similar symbolism with Chris L and rainbows and he turned out to be F2.

by 4health Tue May 16, 2017 2:09 pm

I finally watched HTD and fantasy date episodes. There are a few things I noticed that had Lily's HTD different then the others. I would love to know if this means anything or if the other NZ seasons did this to indicate who is F1.

Lily's HTD
She was the only one that had Zac in VO talking about where he sees their relationship and in the future. During the scene of bike riding he says they challenge each other etc
Zac was shown talking to her family at the table:
- how he feels about her (butterfly and being caged) and how Lily feels about that comment
- future plans to him living in Auckland and they talked about it
- Zac says he has commitments but he wants to explore
- Lily stating about she is ready to settle down and won't nits a place without trying it
- about Lily personally saying she is hard she'll but is putty (also on fantasy date he says in VO that he knew he would find that soft side and he did)
- Only conversation with Zac was Lily's mom and only one mentioned love
Lily was the only HTD date on activity that kissing was happening. V and C kissing at Hello and C was goodbye.
Lily was the only one that Zac spent special time after HTD - walking on the beach
The only HTD that Zac's ITM and what he was saying matched his clothes so it was actual ITM not an edited in to the date from a different time. Two of them.

The other HTD dates did not show this depth of either relationship. Also IMO this is the only relationship with a hurdle or ?? Anything that needs to be resolved.

My next post I will do the Fantasy date

by aggie Tue May 16, 2017 5:53 pm

4health wrote:I finally watched HTD and fantasy date episodes. There are a few things I noticed that had Lily's HTD different then the others. I would love to know if this means anything or if the other NZ seasons did this to indicate who is F1.

big snip
The other HTD dates did not show this depth of either relationship. Also IMO this is the only relationship with a hurdle or ?? Anything that needs to be resolved.
My next post I will do the Fantasy date

Thanks for posting this. I felt there was more ti Lily's htd than for the other 2, but then I come on here and read all the arguments for V and think, wow, maybe i misreading!!! Your notes remind me of what I saw. Those editors deserve a rose for giving us so many great clues for both!

Two observations i have not seen made yet..

With the fantasy date, Lily and Zac are most alone. They just got the filming crew whereas the heli and boat experiences are shared with those taking care of heli and boat.

Its been remarked that Zac says of Viarni 'we are on the same page'. But it is never him that says that and V has said it at least twice. For variation, she also has said 'same' twice. And 'i think we have the same values' once also. 'on the same page' to me that is management speak. And i would have preferred to hear her express her feelings in her own words. I am guessing she did but they got edited out to tell the story.ies better.

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Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2

Re: Bachelor New Zealand - Season 3 - Zac Franich - Episode Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #2