Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #5

by Just Looking Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:20 am

mprssdbyu wrote:@emusha I totally get where you are coming from. But here's the thing, only hindsight is 20/20. He fell in love with Vanessa. He did everything possible to put their life in black and white for her. He didn't paint a rose garden so to speak but he did offer her his heart and let her know he wanted to work through it as a team. If we find that she can't do that in the coming months, years I still don't think he'll have any reqrets. She is what he came looking for. JMOAA

I got the love story I hoped for when they announced him as TB two fold. I can't ask for more than that.
IA. Vanessa also said in an interview before filming began, when asked if she would be willing to move, and she said yes she would. I'll have to find the transcript but she definitely said this. IMO, it's all a bit of a hype to increase the drama. Anyway, we'll have to wait and see.

by Guest Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:26 am

I will be very surprised if N&V aren't happy and willing to overcome whatever obstacles face them. That so many see Vanessa as more 'challenging' than the usual F1 is a testimony to the edit, imo. Tptb have done their job well.

by ukglasgowkiiss Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:41 am

^^^Interesting to read the past few pages discussion.

I have always seen it as Vanessa's direct challenging and questioning about where to live and about not giving up her core values (which the edit only showed to be about family lunches- I suspect there was more expressed) as being her way of testing Nick at the time to find out how serious his intentions were with her. To see what his answers were and whether he was willing to compromise and if so the way he answered would also reveal to her whether he was choosing her. I see the way she does that as being her way of sticking up for herself in the uncertain environment with heartbreak a possibility. A way of saying I will not be giving myself over to you fully unless I know you are 100% serious about me. I see the discussions they have as an exploration of how they will debate things in future and how they can communicate their feelings and intentions. I also saw a lot of humour from both during the hot tub/ ice bath talks almost as if they knew they were wording it like so for the cameras, but knew there was more between the lines. Such as when Nick words it as 'WE will decide, We will... '

If I was in Vanessa's position at the FSD point- I would have banned myself from asking about the other women left and instead I would be defending myself and how I would not be throwing myself at him easily. I would have a checklist of things I wanted answered so I could feel OK with myself when I told him I loved him, that I had asked the difficult questions. Then I could in all conscience have allowed the love to overcome the fear.

So I just see her questions as very necessary for her own 'safety' in what she will be offering him as a partner and in her fully investing and giving her whole heart to him.
I have no doubt that she will move for love and for Nick, no doubt at all. She has been described many times as someone who sacrifices for others, that is evidenced in her work and her family life and in her SM.
All imho.

by Guest Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:03 am

In addition to Nick's storyboard of 'will his heart be broken again,' a secondary plot point is that Nick claims to want someone who challenges him, but by falling for a woman with that distinct characteristic, has he left himself vulnerable to rejection? imo

by emusha Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:27 am

Thanks for the convo
@ukglasgowkiiss
@skates
You seem to be suggesting that Vanessa is challenging and looking for signs Nick will indeed love her and compromise for her in the way that she wants and needs particularly in an environment she hasn't felt he feels the same for her as he does him. Interestingly, Vanessa herself when explaining to Nick's dad says that she feels that Nick loves her but the question is ---> is love enough. I don't see any clue at this point that shows her actually doubting Nick's feelings however, she does seem to be fully and deeply engaged in the negotiation of compromises that will help them build a life together. She gets happy when nick concedes i.e. he's happy to be part of her family's traditions but then the other compromises are things she's brought up repeatedly over multiple dates.
I totally get why nick's reciprocity of her feelings is very important but I see no proof that it is still a nagging question for her at this point. her comment is love enough says it all, tbh because she feels they have the emotions and passions but then can they make it out in the real world...that's the question she keeps asking.
She also seems to say fully confidently "I love him" and I think he feels the same. This is not the thing she's dwelling on...imho what she's dwelling on instead is lifestyle choices and compromises.

@notarose you are also suggesting V is testing whether he will go far for her. What are the clues that this is a test for his commitment and love rather her negotiating how her life would be like and how they'd make it work?

@Catdwoman50 Great point and you are right ITA we really don't know what Nick is capable of handling and so we shall indeed see!

all IMHO

by ukglasgowkiiss Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:14 am

@emusha I see the clues you point out regarding the way & content of what was shown on the convo with Nick's father. I can see them as signifying what you suggest & that V is confident 'enough' about Nick's love to be concerned on the questions of irl where to live etc.
Where i see a difference is that I have an unproven belief that V woukd not have gone on the show without being willing to move, if she found her true love. She left her students and family in order to find out if Nick was her one IMHO. I do not see what she has gained in terms of 'brand building' etc from her time away from her Canadian life. I just believe - without knowing- that she is in it for love, shooting for the moon. This is born out in my mind by how they discussed her being devastated and the whole family hurt by her last break up. It sounded so bad I even wondered if V had been ill over it or seriously depressed. Anyway - that showed to me that V was a woman willing & likely to invest her whole self into a marriage.
Also imo V wd be the one of all the f4 who wd be making the most sacrifices by leaving her family, country & job for her partner. So imo she was so sure of her love for Nick & that she would do that if it came to it, that she might be testing out the same willingness from him. Also when she cries in the clip it is imo because she is expressing her love to Nick's father and saying ' i never thought i wd meet someone like your son' because she knows the sacrifice of moving etc will come from her & she accepts that & is willing.
All imho.

by Mgrissom Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:25 am

Last episode Nick says, "so when we're in Montreal on Sunday's we go to lunch with your family." They are already agreeing on compromises. I think she wants to be convinced it is real before she moves and gives up her security for him.

by notarose Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:04 am

@emusha

I skimmed back a few pages at my posts and can't find where I referred to "testing".
I looked because I don't believe either are testing each other so ... but if I did please cut/paste and I will speak directly to your question.

I think they have merely been discussing normal things to see what are shared views and when not an easy yes they discuss it -" put it on the table" is what Nick said in either an ITM or VO . giggling

safe to assume the edit likes to give us mostly convo about things that need a solution.

Overall IMO Vanessa is solid in her wanting a relationship with Nick post-show. If the show didn't historically push for there to be an engagement at the end I think these two would be romancing it up all the time. But it does seem both are thinking engagement (starting with Nick using the word "blessing") and that is why all the concrete stuff that needs to addressed is being addressed.

by notarose Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:22 am

Mgrissom wrote:Last episode Nick says, "so when we're in Montreal on Sunday's we go to lunch with your family." They are already agreeing on compromises. I think she wants to be convinced it is real before she moves and gives up her security for him.

With Chris V she mentioned she was where Nick was in both Bette seasons and Nick, in retrospect, learned he trusted his heart too much, his head too little. It was a great analogy as it let Chris know she believed the authenticity of Nick's feelings on both seasons which is something many show fans mocked/doubted.
I thought the "when in Montreal" was a cute way of phrasing the agreement. I watched that scene without sound as well. They were flirting up a storm IMO.

by mprssdbyu Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:23 am

#TBF! My favorite deleted bachelor scene ever belongs to Nick. So great! I wish I knew how to embed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXY25JUIuJE

by mindless Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:26 pm

mprssdbyu wrote:@emusha I totally get where you are coming from. But here's the thing, only hindsight is 20/20. He fell in love with Vanessa. He did everything possible to put their life in black and white for her. He didn't paint a rose garden so to speak but he did offer her his heart and let her know he wanted to work through it as a team. If we find that she can't do that in the coming months, years I still don't think he'll have any reqrets. She is what he came looking for. JMOAA

I got the love story I hoped for when they announced him as TB two fold. I can't ask for more than that.

I agree. IMO Vanessa was the best match for Nick out of this lot by far and if it doesn't work out then oh well, at least he took the risk. I just can't (and won't) assume that Vanessa is still in the same head space now that she was back in November. I'm sure the prospect of changing her whole life for a guy she only met a couple of months prior was terrifying for her, how could it not be? She said herself that being engaged is as serious as being married to her, so I would imagine she wasn't just coasting along thinking they'll get engaged and worry about everything else later. She wanted to know exactly what she was getting herself into before taking the plunge and Nick was keeping his answers tentative in order to not make any sort of false promises. If they still have no clue as to what their plans are then that's a problem, but I have a feeling that's not the case. If they're still in love and happy then I suspect their relationship has evolved past these fears. We'll see. JMO.

by Billysmom Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:49 pm

mindless wrote:
mprssdbyu wrote:@emusha I totally get where you are coming from. But here's the thing, only hindsight is 20/20. He fell in love with Vanessa. He did everything possible to put their life in black and white for her. He didn't paint a rose garden so to speak but he did offer her his heart and let her know he wanted to work through it as a team. If we find that she can't do that in the coming months, years I still don't think he'll have any reqrets. She is what he came looking for. JMOAA

I got the love story I hoped for when they announced him as TB two fold. I can't ask for more than that.

I agree. IMO Vanessa was the best match for Nick out of this lot by far and if it doesn't work out then oh well, at least he took the risk. I just can't (and won't) assume that Vanessa is still in the same head space now that she was back in November. I'm sure the prospect of changing her whole life for a guy she only met a couple of months prior was terrifying for her, how could it not be? She said herself that being engaged is as serious as being married to her, so I would imagine she wasn't just coasting along thinking they'll get engaged and worry about everything else later. She wanted to know exactly what she was getting herself into before taking the plunge and Nick was keeping his answers tentative in order to not make any sort of false promises. If they still have no clue as to what their plans are then that's a problem, but I have a feeling that's not the case. If they're still in love and happy then I suspect their relationship has evolved past these fears. We'll see. JMO.

Good post, mindless. Like emus ha, I have concerns that her family and teaching are fundamental parts of Vanessa, so loving her in my mind does not jive with asking her to give up both. But hopefully since taking their leap of faith in nov. They've been working on thinking outside the box so that each of them can have his/her dreams and still be together. Twt.

by Sponsored content

Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5

Re: Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - Sleuthing Spoilers #5