Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 9B - WTA - Mar 6 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Most have summed up my feelings about the season, last night's show, and N&V relationship.  Couple observations from last night . . .

Raven: Ridiculous.  She is 25 going on 16 (like the rest of the girls at the WTA!)

Rachel:  She is nice, intelligent and beautiful. I am looking forward to her season but their whole date seemed scripted.  Nick was 2 feet from her the whole time, even when she was falling over while skiing - he just kept going.  Between FF because their date was redundant, I caught Nick calling Rachel out on loosing it during the volleyball date in Bimini.  I would use the term curiosity more than chemistry for this relationship.

Vanessa:  Well, I am bias so this was THE BEST DATE EVER in Bachelor history.  I said to the husband, "That was the longest, most sensible conversation I have ever witnessed on this show!"  They had fun, serious, and romantic all wrapped into the date. Why couldn't they have showed us more of this all season????  I know they are playing up the relocating doubt, but I noticed that when they were talking about 'traditional' and what they wouldn't compromise on, Nick used specific words about Montreal.  He said (somewhat paraphrasing) - "So when you are in Montreal you will want to spend Sundays with your family?".  IMO this means they have talked about living elsewhere and possibly V is willing to relocate, but since she is close to her family she will always want to go back home to visit.

IA the WTA was a complete disaster, I couldn't even make it through it to see the previews so went to bed.

Watched the previews this morning and nothing new - - - more love for Raven and doubt for Vanessa.  From what I saw here of IG photos it looks like all is good with N&V so I hope that is the case

IMO it wouldn't have mattered who else they cast.  Nick saw/felt something with Vanessa early on that prompted him to make the decision to wear two hats - his exploration of the relationship with Vanessa vs his interest in production.
 He saw entertainment value, demographic appeal, or next lead/BIP in many and guided their storyline reveals.  Some he admired or was genuinely interested in as people.  He's a quick study and after 3 previous shows has IMO honed his ability to recognize and appreciate individuals who have the potential to thrive in Bach Nation. I don't see this as a negative because people initially go on the show for fun, adventure, to become part of Bach alumni... odds are low in the love-finding department.  Him giving them more camera time is basically mutually beneficial.
This late in the season I just think he was done with the 'job" and that's why Raven as F2 doesn't make much sense. I think he likes the dark side intrigue of her relationship history but he is very sexual and her naïveté doesn't jive with his 36 year old side.  Plus talk of ironing vs his talk of wanting a clear couple identity separate from Vanessa's family is light years apart in depth.
Sorry to Rachel fans however I think he has been mentoring her all along. She is a WOC version of what has been a successful lead in the past and even if she wasn't a WOC, IMO she was still the standout for next lead. I think he gave her a lot hints about where their relationship was going and trust she was observant/intelligent enough to have read the signs.
As to V&N, initial attraction was intense and mutual but there was never any guarantee that they would fall in love or as Vanessa put it this epi "a relationship needs more than love" so each week they pushed boundaries to build and test strength or lack of. Their risk taking is awesome!

notarose wrote:snipped

Sorry to Rachel fans however I think he has been mentoring her all along. She is a WOC version of what has been a successful lead in the past and even if she wasn't a WOC, IMO she was still the standout for next lead. I think he gave her a lot hints about where their relationship was going and trust she was observant/intelligent enough to have read the signs.
As to V&N, initial attraction was intense and mutual but there was never any guarantee that they would fall in love or as Vanessa put it this epi "a relationship needs more than love" so each week they pushed boundaries to build and test strength or lack of.  Their risk taking is awesome!

ITA - I felt that throught the whole season before we knew for sure she was the 'tte. During their conversation on the couch, it couldn't be more obvious that Nick was prepping her IMHO for the next lead.  I don't think Rachel was really in love with Nick. When you're in love or falling in love, you don't have any resistance in saying it. She behaved a little immature for my liking during that segment. I hate to say it, but she is reminding me more and more of another lawyer that annoyed me. Especially with her remark of the other guys will be lucky, re Nick's comment and her response, that she knows.

I was so disgusted by the fawning over Corinne's infantile and egotistical behavior (by the audience, CH and some of the other girls, especially Josephine, who needs to have a makeup consult STAT) that I turned it off.  It drives me crazy when people start crying "bully" at somebody, while they are actually trying to bully/intimidate that person themselves.  Taylor has a lot to learn (and I suspect she will, as she's only 23 and seems like a kind, self aware person), but she didn't deserve the gang-up, all in order to promote "the season of Corinne".  I am sick and tired of watching people who should know better excuse and encourage immature selfish behavior because it's "entertaining", especially after living through 2016.

Not really being a Nick fan, I'm finding this whole season boring. I agree the casting was bad, and very few of these women were at all appropriate for Nick. For the most part, they were immature, and they made him appear more immature as a result (not appealing watching a 36 year old man in a bouncy house).

GuardianAngel wrote:

notarose wrote:snipped

Sorry to Rachel fans however I think he has been mentoring her all along. She is a WOC version of what has been a successful lead in the past and even if she wasn't a WOC, IMO she was still the standout for next lead. I think he gave her a lot hints about where their relationship was going and trust she was observant/intelligent enough to have read the signs.
As to V&N, initial attraction was intense and mutual but there was never any guarantee that they would fall in love or as Vanessa put it this epi "a relationship needs more than love" so each week they pushed boundaries to build and test strength or lack of.  Their risk taking is awesome!

ITA - I felt that throught the whole season before we knew for sure she was the 'tte. During their conversation on the couch, it couldn't be more obvious that Nick was prepping her IMHO for the next lead.  I don't think Rachel was really in love with Nick. When you're in love or falling in love, you don't have any resistance in saying it. She behaved a little immature for my liking during that segment. I hate to say it, but she is reminding me more and more of another lawyer that annoyed me. Especially with her remark of the other guys will be lucky, re Nick's comment and her response, that she knows.

I noticed the bolded as well. She has done this or a version of this several times now and it's turning me off also. That and the fact that I am finding her very bland isn't drawing me in like I was expecting when I first saw those snippets of their first date. At times, I'm finding her more immature and insecure than I would have thought. Maybe it is just the higher expectations I had for her. I will be interested to see what tptb have in store for her own season and just how she will be able to handle and negotiate all the things they throw at her.

Sprite wrote:
I noticed the bolded as well. She has done this or a version of this several times now and it's turning me off also. That and the fact that I am finding her very bland isn't drawing me in like I was expecting when I first saw those snippets of their first date. At times, I'm finding her more immature and insecure than I would have thought. Maybe it is just the higher expectations I had for her. I will be interested to see what tptb have in store for her own season and just how she will be able to handle and negotiate all the things they throw at her.

I feel this is the case for me.

Also maybe it's just me but I am very uncomfortable with the girls calling Rachel's future eliminated guys 'leftovers' and all of them laughing like it's a big joke. This is the second time it happened and I find it very disrespectful. It's not that hard to see why the show doesn't get any quality men to apply anymore. Whatever other motivations the guys might have, they are still putting their lives on hold to come on the show for Rachel. Rachel is not there to cherry-pick guys for BIP. If I knew someone who was going on the season, I would tell them to back out. BIP has turned this show into a joke.

All JMO.

I wonder if they consider themselves leftovers?

Literally Just 26 Hilarious Tweets About Last Night’s Episode Of "The Bachelor"

My fav 3:

Maddie @maddiemortell
why is josephine looking like somebody just lit the black flame candle #TheBachelor #WomenTellAll

Bachelor Interns @BachelorInterns
When that @HomeGoods rug sale is so good you just buy them all. #TheBachelor

Ana Engelhardt @AnaCathrynE
Who knew Nick was such a cotton headed ninny muggins? @viallnicholas28 #TheBachelor

IMO, Rachel is not really experienced in relationships. The giggles she did when opening up to Nick like a school girl, and then the thought of always trying to appear "confident" or "your loss" attitude. I honestly think she puts a facade to hide her insecurities when it comes to relationships. I think she's still scared about this process. I don't think she's that ready to open up with 25 guys to say the least. This journey will definitely shake her up. IMO

Some chatter that Raven's supposed big O celebration is actually a recreation of a scene from "500 Days of Summer".
She may have just been having a bit of fun and actually enjoyed the edit recognizing the nature of the show.  
Might be much ado about nothing.

notarose wrote:Some chatter that Raven's supposed big O  celebration is actually a recreation of a scene from "500 Days of Summer".
She may have just been having a bit of fun and actually enjoyed the edit recognizing the nature of the show.  
Might be much ado about nothing.

I definitely think it was much ado about nothing (and have never seen 500 Days of Summer so can't comment regarding that)

But I also wonder if they hinted some playful footage of her might be good for a possible 'reel' for the possibility of being the lead if she wasn't chosen, and so she gave them some basically 'directed' yet probably supposed to seem playful / lighthearted / fun / innocent youthful escapades for what she may have thought would be possibly to be used sort of as storyboard material for basically (what she was possibly told) could be a cute/innocent lead possibility depending on how the season went, only to discover how they really were going to edit it into the episode as material to put after her comments.

What I thought was quite telling on the WTA was the very end when Rachel went over to the girls... DaniM got pushed to the side and the rest of the girls crowded around Rachel. I saw that last night and just watched it again on Hulu. It looked to me as if they were all worshiping the "leader of the pack" and DaniM was not a part of the pack. I couldn't tell if any of the others were pushed away though. DaniM stood out because of her height and light colored outfit.

If we thought Caila was ganged up on last summer on BIP, imagine what this group will do this summer... Not what I want to spend my downtime watching. Bachelor free summer for me!

(IMO)