Rachel Lindsay - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* - #2

coolangel wrote:

Bee wrote:

coolangel wrote:My doubts about Rachel have nothing to do with Vanessa either. I don't judge anyone harshly for fights/disagreements that happened on the show since it's not a normal environment. Hell, I was even defending Corinne till the WTA!



I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] articulated my thoughts perfectly .IMO No man worth his salt who has any self-respect would put up with someone who makes him feel like he is the lucky one to have her in his life irrespective of how accomplished she is. Relationships are between equals IMO and part of the reason why relationships fail in the Bachelor world esp is coz the lead-F1 don't get to the equal footing post show IMO.

I feel Rachel is already toeing that line before even meeting any of the guys. Time will tell if it's only Rachel's humor being misinterpreted or if she truly goes into relationships thinking she's all that.  

All JMO.

I think it is really interesting how different cultures and people you surround yourself with leave people with such opposing views but i guess thats why this is all so fun to talk about.

Regarding the bolded all my experiences especially in the last five years i'd say let me know that any man worth his salt is actually incredibly turned on by a woman who knows her worth and lets him know how lucky he is to have her.

I have a brother in his late twenties and I'm the same age as Rachel, I have a lot of discussions with him and his large group of male friends who all have really successful high paying careers. A woman who expresses the things Rachel has like his loss or I know I'm a catch even if it is sarcasm in these instances (IMO) are the golden unicorn type of women they are all looking for to get married. These men know they are successful, very little can make them feel insecure especially not a confident woman. They see her confidence and hard work/success as such an accomplishment and turn on.

They aren't looking for girls who think they are lucky to be with them and constantly expressing that in sometimes really insecure ways. The language Rachel uses is almost seen as a way of flirting with and challenging him.

I think a lot of people are turning that old trope of "ohh he's so handsome and smart and rich, how did she land him?" and turning it on its head and that doesn't mean they aren't equal or both valid in the relationship. I think its just another way of uplifting women in this day and age and something that i am seeing is being encouraged and embraced by secure men.

Like the philosopher Beyonce once said "You ain't married to no average b***h boy"

I don't think most of this should be taken in any offence or that she's trying to put any guy down. I think she wants someone who wouldn't even have an inkling to be insecure about her words even if he made less money that her or had a less prestigious job, I think she just wants someone who will be incredibly proud of her and proud to be with her just as I'm sure she will be of him.

Sorry this is so long xx

ITA with the bolded! That's an incredible quality in any woman. My BF would probably attest that's one quality he finds most attractive about me. My point has never been that. I believe it's a two way street and both people should inspire that feeling in the other for relationships to work. Saying someone is lucky when she hasn't even met them is not a good look IMO.

Let me put it this way. No one on this forum has met/knows my BF just like none of us including Rachel has seen or met any of the guys on her season. If at this point, I say 'My BF is lucky to have me', how many would consider it to be 'Me being a strong confident woman who knows her self worth' and how many would think 'I am putting down my BF' ? If it matters, I and my BF are both Software Engineers in Tech.  

I am 28 and the only woman in a team of 8 in a very male-dominated Tech Industry. I would consider most of my male colleagues to be both successful and not insecure men. And my experience in that world is that everyone wants an equal partner - not an insecure subservient partner but also not a blowhard who thinks she is god's gift to mankind. No one has time for either of those things. There are still men who might be intimidated but why bother with those? That goes in the workplace too. I am not treated any differently than my male colleagues. They want to promote STEM careers and encourage women to join and we are treated as equals. But humility goes a long long way IMO.

My opinions are based on my experiences and before my words are twisted into something else, I am iterating that I never said that knowing your self worth is a bad quality - just going around boasting about it is IMO. Humility is a very important quality to possess IMO. I personally feel Rachel is walking a thin line between 'knowing her self worth' and 'projecting she is better'. Time will tell which one it ends up being.

All JMO

Bee wrote: snipped
By the way, I don't know you but I'm proud that you are representing women in such a male dominated industry and hopefully carving out a way for those behind you xx

Cila51290 wrote:I never saw the "sarcastic/confident" Rachel on the show though. During the show, I mostly saw a woman skeptical about the process, semi-confident and just giddy around her crush. Post show she's been way more confident and throwing these sarcastic comments about being above it all, IMO.

emusha wrote:Imo I see Rachel's statement simply as a "yes they are" cheeky response to Nick who told her "they are lucky to have you" I do think context matters and she intended it to be a little teasing joke - notice her body language - she said it with a smile and a teasing look to a man who had already rejected her (as she'd confessed to him rejection is her biggest fear and he'd put her through that) he'd let her go and decided that she's not 'the one' or as many times rejection makes the rejectee feel "not good enough" for him. IMO Rachel has always had a joking and teasing relationship with Nick and she was going back into that comfort zone. When she said "his loss" (btw corinne also said "he missed out" in one of her interviews) it was again in the same context of Ellen saying Nick rejected her.

I do think it is important that we give the full context some real consideration before extrapolating meaning about her statement outside of the context in which it happened.

She did not:
- randomly, unsolicited and out of the blue state "the guys on my season are lucky to have me!"
- randomly state "the guys are in for a woman with so much to offer"

Instead, she teased Nick when he told her he thinks they are lucky to have her by agreeing with him. She also cheekily responded to a humorous Ellen with 'his loss'.IMO

Regardless, we shall see how she is on her own show...