Rachel Lindsay - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* - #2

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I always enjoy seeing your posts and your balanced perspective. Thanks for sharing!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] That would be beautiful -- truly. I'm excited if this actually expands the scope of the conversation beyond tb to simply her experience as a complicated and multi-faceted woman hence black girl magic...

My opinion of Rachel also has nothing to do with Vanessa or Nick or anybody else's opinion.  My opinion was formed from my gut feelings of what I saw of her on my TV screen.  Something nagged at me about her from night 1 and I just could never put my finger on what it was.  Things that have unfolded on SM have given me more of a clue as to what that might have been.  But, I still haven't completely figured out what has bothered me.  Not sure I ever will figure it out though.

Like others I have said, I hope she has a good season and finds the love of her life.  As for me, I just have no interest in watching her journey... I did not find her compelling enough on my TV screen this past season.  

Again, all IMO.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree 100% with your posts. Too many amazing posts to quote so I'll encompass them with tagging you ladies Thanks for articulating everything so well so I can "like" the points in support.

I also of course agree with everyone who posted in support of ReneeM & emusha - it's always nice to see there are various others who share a perspective.

IMO Rachel is interesting, intelligent, gorgeous, funny, warm and has a calming and caring aura that I enjoy. I also enjoy her dry sense of humour. I'm super excited for her season

Ladybug82 wrote:For the record, I don't give a crap about the fight in Bimini, who started/ended it, the cause or if RS's account is accurate or not.  And RS certainly doesn't influence any opinions I have of the people that go on this show.  I take what he says into account and then put it a side until I can form my own opinion based on their attitudes and actions pre, during and post show on the show itself, interviews and their SM.  And some may argue that SM isn't accurate or give us a complete picture, but IMO its gives you enough of a glance into who a person is to form an opinion.  

I don't like or dislike Vanessa, Rachel or even Nick.  Some days I may like one better and another a little less, but it will be based on their own actions and merits.  Not what someone is telling me to think.  When you say and/or do dumb things, then I have no problem calling a spade a spade.  They all get the benefit of the doubt until they prove they no longer deserve it (for example: Josh and Amanda).  

At this point, I'm waiting to see what and how Rachel comes across.  Some of her actions have me SMH and questioning her but doesn't mean I dislike her.  And personally, I like that we don't all agree or see things the same way.  It allows for good discussion and lots of views of situations.  Sometimes, it makes me reconsider or see something in a way I hadn't before.  

I hope she finds someone that makes her happy, regardless if its for a short time or a life time, the same as I would any lead.  I want to like her, I just feel I don't know enough about her at this point to say I actually like her.  And I sincerely hope she turns out not to be anything like the last lawyer lead.  

JMOAA

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] hi!  And Happy Birthday (whenever it be)

Thank you and same to you! (Mine is tomorrow)

Interesting discussion in here. I agree on both ends. I like Nick, I like Vanessa and I like Rachel....I like them all but don't love any of them.

Based on Rachel's actions thus far there are really only a couple that make me shake my head - and as Ladybug said largely from SM.

Regardless, I am excited for Rachel as the bachelorette - and I loved her response to Nick saying the guys are lucky - "yes they are". She is a 31 year old woman who knows her worth and knows that someone would be lucky to have her in their life - I think that every women/man should feel the same way about themselves. I believe you have to love and respect yourself first.

havadrpepper wrote:My opinion of Rachel also has nothing to do with Vanessa or Nick or anybody else's opinion.  My opinion was formed from my gut feelings of what I saw of her on my TV screen.  Something nagged at me about her from night 1 and I just could never put my finger on what it was.  Things that have unfolded on SM have given me more of a clue as to what that might have been.  But, I still haven't completely figured out what has bothered me.  Not sure I ever will figure it out though.

Like others I have said, I hope she has a good season and finds the love of her life.  As for me, I just have no interest in watching her journey... I did not find her compelling enough on my TV screen this past season.  

Again, all IMO.

I couldn't have said it better. This is exactly how I feel about Rachel.

coolangel wrote:My doubts about Rachel have nothing to do with Vanessa either. I don't judge anyone harshly for fights/disagreements that happened on the show since it's not a normal environment. Hell, I was even defending Corinne till the WTA!

mindless wrote:
I do think she's a great catch and has every right to feel that way, but I do also think some humility would be a better look. I mean, we know you're a catch already, there's no need to keep driving home the point yourself. If you feel like you're single because men are intimidated by you, then starting off with "I'm great and you're lucky to meet me" probably doesn't help. Just saying.
JMO.

I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] articulated my thoughts perfectly .IMO No man worth his salt who has any self-respect would put up with someone who makes him feel like he is the lucky one to have her in his life irrespective of how accomplished she is. Relationships are between equals IMO and part of the reason why relationships fail in the Bachelor world esp is coz the lead-F1 don't get to the equal footing post show IMO.

I feel Rachel is already toeing that line before even meeting any of the guys. Time will tell if it's only Rachel's humor being misinterpreted or if she truly goes into relationships thinking she's all that.  

All JMO.

I think it is really interesting how different cultures and people you surround yourself with leave people with such opposing views but i guess thats why this is all so fun to talk about.

Regarding the bolded all my experiences especially in the last five years i'd say let me know that any man worth his salt is actually incredibly turned on by a woman who knows her worth and lets him know how lucky he is to have her.

I have a brother in his late twenties and I'm the same age as Rachel, I have a lot of discussions with him and his large group of male friends who all have really successful high paying careers. A woman who expresses the things Rachel has like his loss or I know I'm a catch even if it is sarcasm in these instances (IMO) are the golden unicorn type of women they are all looking for to get married. These men know they are successful, very little can make them feel insecure especially not a confident woman. They see her confidence and hard work/success as such an accomplishment and turn on.

They aren't looking for girls who think they are lucky to be with them and constantly expressing that in sometimes really insecure ways. The language Rachel uses is almost seen as a way of flirting with and challenging him.

I think a lot of people are turning that old trope of "ohh he's so handsome and smart and rich, how did she land him?" and turning it on its head and that doesn't mean they aren't equal or both valid in the relationship. I think its just another way of uplifting women in this day and age and something that i am seeing is being encouraged and embraced by secure men.

Like the philosopher Beyonce once said "You ain't married to no average b***h boy"

I don't think most of this should be taken in any offence or that she's trying to put any guy down. I think she wants someone who wouldn't even have an inkling to be insecure about her words even if he made less money that her or had a less prestigious job, I think she just wants someone who will be incredibly proud of her and proud to be with her just as I'm sure she will be of him.

Sorry this is so long xx

For me it's a linguistic tell.  
Replacing "lucky" with "fortunate" tells a different story.  Saying "it's my gain" instead of "his loss" tells a different story.
When Nick was announced as the Bach, the following language was attached by tptb:
4th times a charm
unlucky in love
runner up; always a bridesmaid

Basically a massive cliche fest.

I interprete Rachel's use of language as following the course already set.  As the next Bette she may just be promoting what tptb is asking of her.  Once her season starts we will may hear a different Rachel voice.

Interesting reflection from both Nick and Rachel say they miss each other and their "great friendship"  and seeing each other is bitter sweet particularly seeing what happened back...funny enough they seem like they are on the same page - they've moved on but I think there's a very good chance they will rekindle their friendship further down the line. Nick said "Yes, I miss her" and discussed that they became fast friends in addition to becoming romantically involved while dating.


Nick agreed with the interviewer who said there was still chemistry with rachel at WTA that "yea, that chemistry just doesn't go away. in an alternative world who knows what could have happened. but I, for better or worse, had two other women had things going on."

I don't think she could be next Bette if she would have said she didn't know if she would accept a proposal. The tradition of the show process is to say yes at the end.

Bee wrote:

coolangel wrote:My doubts about Rachel have nothing to do with Vanessa either. I don't judge anyone harshly for fights/disagreements that happened on the show since it's not a normal environment. Hell, I was even defending Corinne till the WTA!

mindless wrote:
I do think she's a great catch and has every right to feel that way, but I do also think some humility would be a better look. I mean, we know you're a catch already, there's no need to keep driving home the point yourself. If you feel like you're single because men are intimidated by you, then starting off with "I'm great and you're lucky to meet me" probably doesn't help. Just saying.
JMO.

I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] articulated my thoughts perfectly .IMO No man worth his salt who has any self-respect would put up with someone who makes him feel like he is the lucky one to have her in his life irrespective of how accomplished she is. Relationships are between equals IMO and part of the reason why relationships fail in the Bachelor world esp is coz the lead-F1 don't get to the equal footing post show IMO.

I feel Rachel is already toeing that line before even meeting any of the guys. Time will tell if it's only Rachel's humor being misinterpreted or if she truly goes into relationships thinking she's all that.  

All JMO.

I think it is really interesting how different cultures and people you surround yourself with leave people with such opposing views but i guess thats why this is all so fun to talk about.

Regarding the bolded all my experiences especially in the last five years i'd say let me know that any man worth his salt is actually incredibly turned on by a woman who knows her worth and lets him know how lucky he is to have her.

I have a brother in his late twenties and I'm the same age as Rachel, I have a lot of discussions with him and his large group of male friends who all have really successful high paying careers. A woman who expresses the things Rachel has like his loss or I know I'm a catch even if it is sarcasm in these instances (IMO) are the golden unicorn type of women they are all looking for to get married. These men know they are successful, very little can make them feel insecure especially not a confident woman. They see her confidence and hard work/success as such an accomplishment and turn on.

They aren't looking for girls who think they are lucky to be with them and constantly expressing that in sometimes really insecure ways. The language Rachel uses is almost seen as a way of flirting with and challenging him.

I think a lot of people are turning that old trope of "ohh he's so handsome and smart and rich, how did she land him?" and turning it on its head and that doesn't mean they aren't equal or both valid in the relationship. I think its just another way of uplifting women in this day and age and something that i am seeing is being encouraged and embraced by secure men.

Like the philosopher Beyonce once said "You ain't married to no average b***h boy"

I don't think most of this should be taken in any offence or that she's trying to put any guy down. I think she wants someone who wouldn't even have an inkling to be insecure about her words even if he made less money that her or had a less prestigious job, I think she just wants someone who will be incredibly proud of her and proud to be with her just as I'm sure she will be of him.

Sorry this is so long xx

ITA with the bolded! That's an incredible quality in any woman. My BF would probably attest that's one quality he finds most attractive about me. My point has never been that. I believe it's a two way street and both people should inspire that feeling in the other for relationships to work. Saying someone is lucky when she hasn't even met them is not a good look IMO.

Let me put it this way. No one on this forum has met/knows my BF just like none of us including Rachel has seen or met any of the guys on her season. If at this point, I say 'My BF is lucky to have me', how many would consider it to be 'Me being a strong confident woman who knows her self worth' and how many would think 'I am putting down my BF' ? If it matters, I and my BF are both Software Engineers in Tech.  

I am 28 and the only woman in a team of 8 in a very male-dominated Tech Industry. I would consider most of my male colleagues to be both successful and not insecure men. And my experience in that world is that everyone wants an equal partner - not an insecure subservient partner but also not a blowhard who thinks she is god's gift to mankind. No one has time for either of those things. There are still men who might be intimidated but why bother with those? That goes in the workplace too. I am not treated any differently than my male colleagues. They want to promote STEM careers and encourage women to join and we are treated as equals. But humility goes a long long way IMO.

My opinions are based on my experiences and before my words are twisted into something else, I am iterating that I never said that knowing your self worth is a bad quality - just going around boasting about it is IMO. Humility is a very important quality to possess IMO. I personally feel Rachel is walking a thin line between 'knowing her self worth' and 'projecting she is better'. Time will tell which one it ends up being.

All JMO

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with your opinion. That's the way I look at it too.