Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion- *Sleuthing Spoilers* #3

@MonicaJM2001 I think you have it spot on. I was thinking the same thing, Once she started blabbing, it could upset the ones he was interested in and it wasn't worth it for him. By dumping her, he is telling them she doesn't in fact have an advantage. Plus, having been around the Bachelor block a few times, he probably knew that the producers would use the situation to stir things even more and put an end to that possibility as soon as he could.

I will be curious to see if he discusses the Liz situation with the other women to explain what happened and his reasoning.

I've just read Ali's blog and she is super sweet/nice/positive ... and I totally got her "poking fun" on GMA, so I really appreciated her saying about the negativity that comes with the gig (and I felt bad for her receiving backlash for something so silly). I'm happy Nick has all the support he needs and I hope the same goes for his F1.

I agree with Sharleen's blog, probably I would have assessed those 4 women the same and in that order if I haven't known the outcome. Since the F1 is highly "considered" to be Vanessa, I just can't imagine it any other way, despite my appreciation for Rachel and empathy for Dani M.

Since there are people like Sean Lowe that have admitted that their Bachelor Blogs for People magazinehave been changed and edited from what he actually wrote -- I take anything that is written in those blogs with a big grain of salt.

I believe that Nick kept Liz around for dramatic "story line purposes" (ie. the producers wanted him to). They all knew about Nick and Liz's hook up at Jade and Tanner's wedding when it happened. What better way to cause some drama and anxiety with the women than to bring on a woman that he was previously connected to before?

I watch The Bachelor shows for the romance and relationships, but I am aware that many things are probably produced and edited to fit a certain "predetermined story line" and/or to create drama/tension. I think it is interesting that Taylor is a mental health counselor -- kind of surprised she is a contestant and not actually working with the contestants. I think it is very possible that she hasn't been in the mental health field long since she's 23. I will be interested to see if she gets caught up in the "Bachelor Bubble" and if she will be immune to "producer manipulation and editing" given her educational background or not. This is all JMO.

Interesting view from Afterbuzz TV re Liz: I actually listened (half watched) the Afterbuzz TV last night and Liz is one of Danny Hoyt's friends, he didn't really have a lot of intel re: the situation except to say that that Liz is a good person and has been a friend for a long time. Danny however agreed that Nick had the right to ask the tough questions, especially since Nick asked for her number and was declined due to some preconceived notions on her part. Danny also agreed that Liz didn't really redeem herself in night 1 and it was clear that Nick wanted out of the conversation that when someone interrupted them he went, "yep gotta go (paraphrasing)". Danny seems to think that Nick keeping Liz for 2 reasons (1) the conversation is not over as he needed some more clarity, and (2) it would be frowned upon if he sent her home right away without letting her explain. It was a unanimous sentiment though that if there wasn't anything there, Nick had to get rid of Liz right away because it doesn't portray "fairness and equality" that Nick seems to want to embrace in his season.

Nick himself was sort of in the same situation on K's season. She gave him a chance and let him stay. Whether that was planned or not, I can see Nick keeping Liz in order to finish the conversation which he couldn't on night one.

Even though she basically told him she hooked up with him but because of his past, she didn't give him her phone number, he is keeping her rather than turfing her. If he let her go night one, IMO it would have been rude of him not to give her another chance, for himself too, to make sure there was nothing there anymore.

She's playing games IMO. If his past was bothersome to her, why hook up with him to begin with.

I also think he kept her around because he wanted to finish that conversation with a clearer head. It would've been harsh to send her home without letting her properly explain herself. That's why I don't understand why Jade still thought he didn't give her enough of a chance (she said it on that ET facebook live from the premiere party). I mean what were these two expecting? This is the guy who has been dumped twice on TV just before he was about to propose. Do they really think, now that he's finally in the driver's seat, he's gonna go for the one girl who already blew him off once, after having sex with him no less?! He would have to be a proper masochist in order to do that. All these women dying to date him and he goes for the one who already walked away from him 9 months ago? In your dreams ladies, in your dreams. It's a massive disadvantage, rather than the advantage you seemed to think it was.

Aww he's adorable! (IMO)

I've only just begun to mine gold from the premiere. There should be a rubbing-hands-together-in-anticipation emoji. #thebachelor by @pacozero

Catdwoman50 wrote:Interesting view from Afterbuzz TV re Liz:  I actually listened (half watched) the Afterbuzz TV last night and Liz is one of Danny Hoyt's friends, he didn't really have a lot of intel re: the situation except to say that that Liz is a good person and has been a friend for a long time. Danny however agreed that Nick had the right to ask the tough questions, especially since Nick asked for her number and was declined due to some preconceived notions on her part.  Danny also agreed that Liz didn't really redeem herself in night 1 and it was clear that Nick wanted out of the conversation that when someone interrupted them he went, "yep gotta go (paraphrasing)".  Danny seems to think that Nick keeping Liz for 2 reasons (1) the conversation is not over as he needed some more clarity, and (2) it would be frowned upon if he sent her home right away without letting her explain.  It was a unanimous sentiment though that if there wasn't anything there, Nick had to get rid of Liz right away because it doesn't portray "fairness and equality" that Nick seems to want to embrace in his season.

I was genuinely surprised by all the Liz love from the Afterbuzz team. They all thought she seemed so sweet and amazing and actually thought she might go far and instead I thought she came across suspect and with crazy eyes. I was also surprised at Danny and Brooks choices for who goes far, will win and who will be the next Bachelorette and especially surprised at Danny's reaction to the woman picking Vanessa to win. I almost wondered if he is spoiled and is overcompensating to not make it obvious.

^^ Another interesting bit I picked up on from discussions in Afterbuzz TV.  IMHO that Nick is going to be very careful and self-aware on how he is going to portray himself on TV this time around.  He will still be himself, I believe, but it will be different because he will not be competing with other men this time around - so he will show more of his compassionate side. He will focus on the women who have left their lives to meet him.  Albeit, he is a self-proclaimed a-hole and snob (in certain situations) because he will always go after what he wants (NOTE he didn't go after Liz-period).  But he does have a lot of supporters in BachNation and in the media so there must be something to him (well I knew that, hehe) besides the a-holiness.  

I digress. As a guest for one of the BIP recaps, Nick was very forthcoming on his lessons learned re: the franchise (very bachelor-esque so I think he knew at this point) and what he believes regarding edits. He said, "there are no edits" (let me caveat that he did clarify that the intros and previews are heavily edited to make people think something else is going to happen).  He said that after a few stints he understood that, what is portrayed on TV is the "essence" of what really happens.  After a long-winded discussion he explained that what the contestants generally feel or discuss becomes the theme of the show or the episode. He admits to being aggressive in Andi's season and a whole lot of the guys in the house didn't like him (FIR and all the attention from Andi) - hence the villainous "edit." During Kaitlyn's season only Shawn showed dislike after a couple of episodes, but since Shawn was F1 Nick was still far from redemption at that point.  On BIP, he wasn't really competing with anyone and the person who had problems with him have had  more problems to begin with. Also he went on the show because he had a lot of friends going so naturally, BIP3 showed the better side of him.  

Although Nick's description of edit is a little different from mine (as to me editing is what the producers choose to include in the story), he makes a valid point that what gets cut is as important as what gets shown. If a contestant is half good and half a-hole well there's a 50% chance one side or both will be portrayed on TV e.g. Andi's season. If a contestant has no problems in the house and developing bromances he/she will have a better "edit." He said the producers are there not to create the script but to create an environment for a better script.  Apparently it's like a Petri dish, characters like Liz gets introduced and it's up to the lead and other co-leads to handle.  Nick knowing this going in (again with the over analysis) will fair better now and better than all the contestants who are new to this. So a woman who Nick will find intriguing who will go after "what she wants" will make enemies and may not be portrayed well after all is said and done - except for the next LEAD (he/she has to be likable).

Net/net I expect more of a BIP Nick in TB21 because he has never been an a-hole towards the women. I know some think that he was one to Andi at AFTR but I think he just really needed an answer to his question (which IMHO he tried to get from her many times before the AFTR). What can I say, the guys is persistent.  He has learned his lessons so I don't think we will see him having the "early sex-apades" and I hope he doesn't disappoint me during the FS.  If he had an inkling on who he "loved" that he would keep that act sacred (as he made us believe the first time around) when feelings are involved.

My take: Nick's F1 will be intellectual, has a lot of character, will make enemies, and have a set of "cojones" (figuratively). Looking forward to the season and sharing thoughts with you guys.

Maybe they slept with her, too. Just saying.

lleyki wrote:

Catdwoman50 wrote:Interesting view from Afterbuzz TV re Liz:  I actually listened (half watched) the Afterbuzz TV last night and Liz is one of Danny Hoyt's friends, he didn't really have a lot of intel re: the situation except to say that that Liz is a good person and has been a friend for a long time. Danny however agreed that Nick had the right to ask the tough questions, especially since Nick asked for her number and was declined due to some preconceived notions on her part.  Danny also agreed that Liz didn't really redeem herself in night 1 and it was clear that Nick wanted out of the conversation that when someone interrupted them he went, "yep gotta go (paraphrasing)".  Danny seems to think that Nick keeping Liz for 2 reasons (1) the conversation is not over as he needed some more clarity, and (2) it would be frowned upon if he sent her home right away without letting her explain.  It was a unanimous sentiment though that if there wasn't anything there, Nick had to get rid of Liz right away because it doesn't portray "fairness and equality" that Nick seems to want to embrace in his season.

I was genuinely surprised by all the Liz love from the Afterbuzz team. They all thought she seemed so sweet and amazing and actually thought she might go far and instead I thought she came across suspect and with crazy eyes. I was also surprised at Danny and Brooks choices for who goes far, will win and who will be the next Bachelorette and especially surprised at Danny's reaction to the woman picking Vanessa to win. I almost wondered if he is spoiled and is overcompensating to not make it obvious.

@lleyki - ITA. I think since I am spoiled I tend to disagree with them. Also I think they were just giving Liz some deference for Danny. And I felt that Brooks was not prepared for that show at all, compared to the other ones he's done for Afterbuzz in the past. All IMO of course

So are we gonna believe this article about women storming off set?  It's pretty damning with regards to Nick:

http://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/the-bachelor-nick-viall-122276

Doesn't sound like the Nick I "know". Probably an "insider" trying to stir the pot.