Rachel Lindsay - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Rachel might not be familiar with the show but i don't think she is naive and she won't be able to withstand the producers manipulations. The people that can be easily manipulated are easy to spot during the show IMO. For example being overly involved in the drama, talking bad about the other girls , saying they are falling in love with the lead on the first date and are often times are not sceptical about the "process".

I think Wells, Chase, and whoever else they were with (haha, I honestly don't remember) were just projecting their reservations about a black bachelorette onto the entire country. While I do think there will be a few people who will probably react negatively by saying racist things on SM with threats of boycotting the season, I don't think it would be wise for TPTB to bend to accommodate bigotry. Instead, they should take advantage of the strong interest in having an intelligent, successful, and mature woman to be the next Bachelorette. The fact that she's a black woman is great, not in the sense that it fulfills a quota but in the sense that it allows for a positive representation of black women on screen.

Besides, as people have mentioned previously, shows produced and led by black women are some of the most successful in recent years. If TPTB are only concerned about ratings and money (which, let's be real, is most likely the case), then having Rachel as the bachelorette is probably a way to reach a bigger audience in their desired demographic.

crunchycheeto wrote:I think Wells, Chase, and whoever else they were with (haha, I honestly don't remember) were just projecting their reservations about a black bachelorette onto the entire country. While I do think there will be a few people who will probably react negatively by saying racist things on SM with threats of boycotting the season, I don't think it would be wise for TPTB to bend to accommodate bigotry. Instead, they should take advantage of the strong interest in having an intelligent, successful, and mature woman to be the next Bachelorette. The fact that she's a black woman is great, not in the sense that it fulfills a quota but in the sense that it allows for a positive representation of black women on screen.

Besides, as people have mentioned previously, shows produced and led by black women are some of the most successful in recent years. If TPTB are only concerned about ratings and money (which, let's be real, is most likely the case), then having Rachel as the bachelorette is probably a way to reach a bigger audience in their desired demographic.

ITA Plus the twitter comments and snark will get even bigger. I'm all for this franchise being more inclusive and having more diverse contestants and leads. I'd love another latino/latina as the lead too just not the Juan Pablo type. If Rachel being the ette leads the show in having less Robby, Chase, Luke types then I'm here for that. I'd love men like Ames, JP, Mikhel(ette CA) cast for Rachel.

I think Rachel not getting a 1-1 until NOLA was a good thing for Bette potential.  There will only be Kristina left for a first 1-1 so all the bigger personalities that might be lead went first which allowed Rachel's impact to withstand a kind of litmus test.  Plus, she is now better known and won't be somewhat forgotten, like Dani M who went first, so having another 1-1 2 weeks later keeps her fresh in the minds of viewers.
It's like a marathoner where you conserve your energy until the final lap.

notarose wrote:I think Rachel not getting a 1-1 until NOLA was a good thing for Bette potential.  There will only be Kristina left for a first 1-1 so all the bigger personalities that might be lead went first which allowed Rachel's impact to withstand a kind of litmus test.  Plus, she is now better known and won't be somewhat forgotten, like Dani M who went first, so having another 1-1 2 weeks later keeps her fresh in the minds of viewers.
It's like a marathoner where you conserve your energy until the final lap.

I also think that TPTB have told the leads to hold off on 1-1's on people that they're super sure of. It's happened less on TB seasons, but it happens all of the time on 'ette seasons, with the F1's not getting a date until around episode 5 or so. I think that's why Nick waited until New Orleans with Rachel because to him, at least to this point, she was never a question (and he told her as much).

I'm excited to see her as the 'ette, but I do still kind of wish she won... especially after the NO date. I think Vanessa is lovely, but I like him with Rachel more. He just seemed so normal and present with Rachel.

I really like Nick when he's with Rachel too! I think with Vanessa, he just seems so mesmerized by her, in this "I can't believe I found my dream person" kind of way that I saw with Brad/Emily and even Des/Brooks and Ben/Lauren. I never really enjoy watching those relationships because it feels like the lead kind of loses themselves and is in this state of infatuation and amazement. I like the relationships where it feels like there's this strong foundation of friendship and mutual comfort, like Sean/cat and jp/Ashley. I selfishly would have liked to see Rachel/nick end up together, but I do think that Vanessa probably makes more sense for him in the real world. IMO.

I disagree^. Nick has yet to be vulnerable with Rachel, IMO. He was vulnerable with Vanessa right off the bat. Nurturing her and opening up. To me that falls right in the line with how JP and Ashley's first date was like. I see a strong foundation of trust, love, and friendship with Nick and Vanessa. Nick and Rachel's date was just infatuation getting to know someone on the first date. Typical Bachelor date. JMO

Cila51290 wrote:I disagree^. Nick has yet to be vulnerable with Rachel, IMO. He was vulnerable with Vanessa right off the bat. Nurturing her and opening up. To me that falls right in the line with how JP and Ashley's first date was like. I see a strong foundation of trust, love, and friendship with Nick and Vanessa. Nick and Rachel's date was just infatuation getting to know someone on the first date. Typical Bachelor date. JMO

It is fascinating how differently the relationships come across to different viewers. thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I do think Vanessa and Rachel are the two women he's actually been vulnerable with so far...

with Rachel he shared paraphrasing "of all the things I have the most insecurities about it's the fact that I've already asked 2 sets of parents....went to the fathers and asked the very meaningful question." ...and that bothers me, it's something I think about. I don't want to give the fathers the sense that I'm not giving the girl the respect that she deserves." he shared this totally unsolicited with her and he's also shared how he feels about Rachel also being vulnerable "I might be breaking some rule here but I'm super into you" he told her he finds it incredibly beautiful sexy that she owns a room "When I'm with you I don't think about anything else" "I want you to feel confident...and to know I'm putting an effort into this relationship because it means a lot to me"

With Vanessa she asked him "why are you doing this again" and in his answer/explanation he admitted that he's not sure if he can trust his own emotions in this environment cos of how things went down with Andi and K and when he walk up ready to propose and imagining a life with each but then they weren't right for him. "I've been incredibly terrified, that this isn't going to work out. I look at you and how quickly I am starting to care about you and how much fun I have with you and it makes me less terrified" he told her, crying, "today you made me feel very optimistic about this" "You make me very excited you know"

I see vulnerability, nurturing, and trust with Vanessa too! It's just that friendship and fun that I personally don't see in the same way I see with Rachel/Nick and the other couples I mentioned. I honestly like it when a couple looks like they're on a first date and not already in love; that seems more natural and real to me, like they're not idolizing each other and won't be surprised after filming when they find out the other has flaws.

V/N both seen crazy about each other and will be good for each other IRL, it's just not the type of "love" story I personally enjoy watching as much. IMO.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree. I think he's been most vulnerable and open with both Rachel and Vanessa. And I actually see that amazement/infatuation with both women -- I get the impression from Nick's facial expressions that he's kind of taken aback by how great these two women are. And I think he's also surprised by how into them he is, especially given this short timeframe.

The only difference I see in terms of Nick's vulnerability is that with Rachel, it seems like there's a lot of excitement and hope for this new relationship. Like, he's eager to discover more things about her and her life. With Vanessa, there's this sense of comfort and desire to be protective. Personally, I'm a fan of seeing these two "love stories" play out because they both seem genuine yet different in their own ways. Plus they bring out the sides of Nick that made me appreciate him in the first place -- the genuine curiosity, the little bits of dorkiness when he's smitten, and the way he gets really invested in someone when he's falling for them.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I see your point - with Rachel and Nick you can almost imagine them wanting to spend lots of time with each other enjoying each others company like there's a limitless number of hours they could be in each other's company regardless of the physical aspect of things... I can also see this deep respect and awe on Nick's face when he watches her that I haven't seen in the same way with anyone else. while with V&N the emotions and passions lead more with the effortless and "I've known you my whole life" physical then with him protecting and caring for her. The awe is still there but in a "I can't believe I have these intimate feelings already" way.

At the same time, I do see Rachel's admission that she defaults to bottling up her many emotions though she's very sensitive as a real and important roadblock. How quickly she unbottles it and lets it flow freely, openly expressing herself will determine whether or not this relationship works in this environment. I do see her opening up but I don't think it's been/will be enough if she doesn't get more expressive and intense esp given the other frontrunner who is very much expressive, emotional and intense.

I'm VERY curious to see how the relationships progress particularly given the fact that these two and Danielle are Nick's frontrunners at this point in the show.

crunchycheeto wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree. I think he's been most vulnerable and open with both Rachel and Vanessa. And I actually see that amazement/infatuation with both women -- I get the impression from Nick's facial expressions that he's kind of taken aback by how great these two women are. And I think he's also surprised by how into them he is, especially given this short timeframe.

The only difference I see in terms of Nick's vulnerability is that with Rachel, it seems like there's a lot of excitement and hope for this new relationship. Like, he's eager to discover more things about her and her life. With Vanessa, there's this sense of comfort and desire to be protective. Personally, I'm a fan of seeing these two "love stories" play out because they both seem genuine yet different in their own ways. Plus they bring out the sides of Nick that made me appreciate him in the first place -- the genuine curiosity, the little bits of dorkiness when he's smitten, and the way he gets really invested in someone when he's falling for them.

Great post [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]! Nick does NOT have a poker face and it's brilliant isn't it

I agree with your assessment that with Rachel there's this "venturing" into the relationship and immense mutual respect, admiration and excitement around discovering and building the relationship. There's an effortlessness and ease to their connection, physical chemistry and conversation but they're both a bit nervous and scared, filled with anticipation cos of the excitement they both feel and were expressing.

While with Vanessa it's like neither of them have to make any effort "It's like I've already known you my whole life! It's so natural like we've been in a relationship for months already" the discovery of the connections happen but the impact is almost going unnoticed lost in the passion and comfort cos they just are slotting into each other. They give and receive affection, conversation etc. like they've been doing it for a long time. Vanessa feels so comfortable she can confront him and demand he explain himself in a way that's like they've been together for months.

Just like Rachel's hesitation and slow pace to opening up might not work ideally for her in this environment I think there is a risk with V&N where they are jumping very quickly and head first into an area of assumed intimacy. Obviously the format of this show favors the latter and I know relationships work differently and they can figure it out like all Bach/bette couples do when they start "dating" after they leave the show but I'd be curious to see what/if any the real "getting to know you" foundations will be there with the two of them. IMHO

There are likely blindspots for both paths and both relationships as I see it and I'm really curious how the relationships progress. Part of the fun in watching these relationships progress.