The Bachelorette - Season 12 - JoJo Fletcher - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #3

I am only going by what I see on the show. So who are you suspecting could be F1? Maybe I need to do some re-watching... !

Kashathediva wrote:snip
I would bet my last dollar TPTB orchestrated this. 
snip

Seabear wrote:I think TPTB timed the In Touch reveal to inflict maximum JoJo emotional breakdown.I actually think TPTB used the article to break JoJo down to ensure she would fall even further into the bubble to prove Chad wrong......and pick someone (Jordan) regardless of any red flags.

JMHO but I think the entire article and interview with Chad R was staged by production. After all, last season we had flowers and a love letter from Chad R "mysteriously" appear during JoJo's HTD, complete with a phone conversation on a borrowed cell phone - just to throw her a curve during filming. I don't think JoJo knew that was going to happen but clearly (IMO) it couldn't have happened without both production and Chad R playing ball with each other to set it up and pull it off. IMO there's nothing to make me believe that this article just happened organically and that production couldn't have been behind it once again - encouraging or facilitating this interview with Chad timed to hit the news stands after JoJo left for filming and then sprung on her the way it was solely to throw her another curve. IMO there are few things that just happen by coincidence with this show. As others have said - the producers are not your friends - they will pretend to be your friends.

JBF wrote:I am only going by what I see on the show. So who are you suspecting could be F1? Maybe I need to do some re-watching... !

Without a rewatched and reading the board, who do you estimate at this point ?

Btw -hope things are better for you In real life?

JBF wrote:I am only going by what I see on the show. So who are you suspecting could be F1? Maybe I need to do some re-watching... !

I am thinking Robby is F1. Not only was he travelling back when Jojo was travelling/on the Sunday. We also have Jordan's dad saying that the whole family is having a vacay....he tweeted that on Sat. That and I am getting a distinct vibe that something happens with Jordan and he isn't F1.

Bringing this up as a reminder: 

 rule
May 24th 2016: 
We find it necessary to implement this new rule.

If you are spoiled, you are not allowed to participate in sleuthing NON SPOILED. If you are spoiled and are sleuthing, then it should remain in the spoiled threads.

Please do not answer any of their questions if you are spoiled.

nd4reality wrote:

JBF wrote:I am only going by what I see on the show. So who are you suspecting could be F1? Maybe I need to do some re-watching... !

Without a rewatched and reading the board, who do you estimate at this point ?

Btw -hope things are better for you In real life?

It has been a rough month. Thank you for asking!

Regarding the show, I have only been watching the episodes as they air. However I did start watching some stuff on YouTube just now and will try to piece together a little something-something in a moment. Jordan seems like the frontrunner NOW, but I am most interested now on the alternatives.

So... Auntie, you think Robby? I will have to re-watch some stuff.

Oh, Kashathediva, I would NOT be on this side of the forum if I was THAT paranoid about being spoiled.

NP, hope,things do get better and this board is a bit of a distraction.


Take a note of the edits using VOs etc to enhance the storyline. And where they actually show the words come,out of her mouth.

That is the edited version we get which tells me who the lead is really feeling for and who they want thhe audience to think she is.

nd4reality wrote:NP, hope,things do get better and this board is a bit of a distraction.


Take a note of the edits using VOs etc to enhance the storyline. And where they actually show the words come,out of her mouth.

That is the edited version we get which tells me who the lead is really feeling for and who they want thhe audience to think she is.

Give me a little time and I will rustle up something-something here on the five or so guys I think have a sporting chance "to win Jo-Jo's heart".

Sometimes the more complicated a season, the more likely it doesn't matter in the end... since the lead probably broke up with their chosen and all of our efforts are in vain. Case in point: Juan Pablo's ridiculous season that didn't officially end until the end of Couples Therapy on VH1.

Aunties_Love wrote:

JBF wrote:I am only going by what I see on the show. So who are you suspecting could be F1? Maybe I need to do some re-watching... !

I am thinking Robby is F1.  Not only was he travelling back when Jojo was travelling/on the Sunday.  We also have Jordan's dad saying that the whole family is having a vacay....he tweeted that on Sat.  That and I am getting a distinct vibe that something happens with Jordan and he isn't F1.

OK... watched a couple excerpts available on YouTube so I don't have to search through full episodes on abc.com. You will be sssssooooo proud of me, Auntie. I tossed all of the Bachelor Chess Pieces on the floor and moved them around comparing each with each.

Ha ha!

A few observations regarding the front runners left, that is, those who might POTENTIALLY be the future hubbie of Jo-Jo if she actually picks one this season:

Derek

Derek = Jared in Kaitlyn's season.

Pretty Boy who is given the High Style Date to see if he is Bachelor material. Huge strike against him was his "this date might be my first with my future wife" (paraphrasing here).

I admit that I am quite surprised he leaves earlier than I expected. Then again, so did Jared last year.

Alex

That guy spent way too much time battling Chad to the point that Jo-Jo was simply a spectator. I really don't see anything between them.

Jordan and his pompadour

One possible strike against him, going by "tradition", is that he was first out of the limos. No previous F1 was, but roughly a third of the future leads (i.e. those contestants becoming Bachelor/ette the very next season) were first out, including the last two Bachelors: Ben and farmer Chris. Let's say he is this season's version of Trista's Charlie (the one with that "look" that the girl can't deny her attraction to) and Bachelor Nation EXPECTS him to be F1. Then... surprise! He is rejected. Yet Bachelor Nation loves him so much that he guarantees a successful season in January as the lead.

Episode 1 line that made me chuckle: "I don't need to know her whole life story in two minutes." (Then shaking his head "no"... ) "She doesn't need to know mine yet, but hopefully we got a connection off the bat." Smooth, Jordan, smooooooth.

This line of his is interesting: "It is not that I don't want to be vulnerable, but it is something that takes a little time for me... and I come off like I've got it all figured out and I don't want her to think this doesn't mean as much as it does to me." A previous Jordan, Jordan Paul Rosenbaum, said similar lines but that was because (as mother Ilene confirmed in Long Island's hometown visit) he was previously really, really heartbroken (and I suspect all of the silly Bentley business was presented to put Ashley H. on equal footing... ). Yet this Jordan doesn't seem to be a veteran in that department regarding his ex-girlfriend. Sounds like a mutually agreed upon break up. Also this Jordan seems a bit too uber-confident in himself.

Later he builds up on this: "I think I have been very good positioning myself to NOT get my heart broken, but I have to be vulnerable in order for it to work, in order to fall in love." Hmmm... sounds like future Bachelor Speak here. If he IS F1, he is certainly one of the more boring ones. Just another "jock" who has partook in much of the show's narration. This makes me wonder how long they would last post-show.

He is literally EVERYWHERE on screen, probably getting more time on screen than anybody other than Chad.

She is all over him, touching him constantly and using expressions like "I have this little girl excitement around him"... lah dee dah. She also wore a lot of black when she was on her solo date with him. She views Jordan as a "dark and spicy" dish.

Jordan is definitely a LEGS man. Half of the close-up shots of them together this season involve him stroking her legs up and down.

Interesting "is it a clue or a Red Herring?"...
Backtracking to the conversation she had with Ali F. in episode 1 (jam session with past Bachelorettes), she was given a severe warning about "The Robertos", the potential guy or guys Jo-Jo could be all attracted to physically but not thinking of possible longterm liabilities further down the road. Roberto was both the First Impression Rose and the F1, then broke up with Ali (although they lasted roughly a year, longer than many other couples). Jordan is also the First Impression Rose.

She also questions if he is "too good to be true". Apparently this line is used a lot with F1s because the lead can't understand the attraction and keeps questioning everything. Yet the answer could be either: "Yes it is but I am happy" (a.k.a. Ben F. and Courtney, Andi and Josh, even though those relationships didn't last) or "Yes it WAS and I realize I made a mistake".

Regardless of his standing, my impression is that Jordan is the most IMPORTANT contestant of this season. She tells him at one point that "there's something about you that makes me a little nervous".

I never could understand why Chad hated Jordan so much. It is tempting to think that, if Jordan is NOT F1, he could be a "smokescreen" F1 as the Fleiss & Co. version of the Witness Protection Program, with Chad rushed off to Bachelor In Paradise in order to cool down and not carry out his "When you go home, do you think I can't find you? You think I won't go out of my way to come to your house?" Even though Jordan blew him off, he still looked nervous.



James

Intriguingly he was the first contestant she cried over. He read a poem to her and the tears welled up instantly.

He is not somebody I would consider F1 material, but his departure will be among the saddest.

Chase

That yoga session was a bit awkward to watch, but she kept saying she was "comfortable" with him the whole time.

Chase is the only contestant I saw a fluff piece on. What struck me was the fact that he "found Jesus" (either before or after he got that ridiculous tattoo on his side). A lot depends on how Jo-Jo stands there. Know nothing of her backstory, although she frequently says on screen how impressed she is with "traditional" guys who take marriage seriously.

He really is hidden a lot unless Jo-Jo is with him. He narrates some, but isn't an active participant in the storyline like Jordan is. This makes me think the editors don't consider him all that important.

Luke

She said he had "sexy confidence" on night one. However I was turned off by his complaining about "not getting time with her" in a key episode.

He resembles Chase a lot as one of the Quiet Ones. If he makes it to Top 4, it is by default.

Yet, in all of these cases, we must remember that the storyline may not pick up steam until later in the season and perhaps he is hidden as the one she only discovers later. Who knows?

Robby

Out of the limo (edited on screen as No. 5 out), she said "my mom would like him". Well... do you agree with your mother's tastes? Does mother know best? Interesting that they both drank from the same bottle of wine BEFORE kissing later.

Although she is also "nervous" with Jordan, Robby, Jordan and Chase are the three Jo-Jo keeps saying "I feel comfortable with".

I did not like how he looked off screen when saying "my feelings for Jo-Jo developed at a fast pace". However this could be explained by shyness. He is certainly the wallflower type.

Robby is the polar opposite of not just confident and extroverted Jordan but also "evil" Chad who bragged once "she needs A MAN who is ready to take care of her in a way she NEEDS to be taken care of."

Per Jo-Jo, his storyline is pretty well established: "He's A MAN. He makes me feel sexy and I feel like there's something in Robby that's going to blow me away." In other words... if we are going by way of the Charlie vs. Ryan set-up in Trista's season, then Jordan is the out-of-the-gate passion guy and Robby is the "slow-burn" that develops gradually. Only Trista's season was a short one with the heat already generated in Sea World (episode 3). It is definitely taking a while with Robby/Jo-Jo here.

Interesting edit after their pool table kissing scene...
James asks the guys as Jordan is shown looking down: "So how important to you think the rose is tonight?... When we are talking about 'The End', like, who ever winds up with Jo-Jo longterm?" This suggests that roses may be meaningless in The End. Jordan might be fooled by The Rose here.

They took their "leap of faith" already, even though he's a professional swimmer. "It is scary to put yourself out there, but it was then that I realized how much I trust Robby. He makes me feel alive." Hmmm... now that I think about it. Maybe Jordan has some competition after all? She did seem rather giddier than usual on her 1 on 1 date with Robby. I did get sort of a "who is Jordan again?" vibe from her. Amusingly scene later in the last episode: Jordan was the one doing all of the talking in the evening cocktail get-together when he stole a kissing session with her (echoes of Arie with Emily Maynard), as if this was more important to HIM than it was to HER. For all we know, she could have been mentally comparing him less favorably to Robby without him knowing this.

Oh well... back to the drawing board...

I am split between Jordan and Robby after going over past clips. Maybe my problem is not casting a wide enough fishing net here?

Just curious. What is the status of Luke? I might as well add him as an alternate F1 regardless of what any spoilers say.

I know... I know! I mocked him in my earliest posts covering episodes 1 and 2. Yet...
1.) She DID say he was "cute" after he dismounted his unicorn. In contrast, she said her MOTHER would like Robby.
2.) Luke is the only one getting the Trista/Ryan Proposal Guitar Rift... so far.
3.) He got her into the hot-tub despite it being TOO hot

Went through the episode 1 promo of the season and just jotted down these THREE guys' scenes and what soundbytes were recorded over them for a little comparison checks.

Now... it is possible that this season could be edited like Andi's with both Josh and Nick getting equal billing. I guess Luke could be a F3 candidate here based on some of his clips matching Prince Farming. Maybe he's the one they want for next Bachelor? Yet Andi's season was a very strange one, not typical of other Bachelorette promos.

Jordan and Robby BOTH saying "love" in the promo is rather interesting. Very rarely... if ever... has a F1 ever stated this up front in a seasonal promo. Usually you hear the F2 say this or something similar on screen, such as Sean's Lindsay and Desiree's Drew. Another thing that may work against Jordan here is the key word "dream".

Here is a quickie rundown. Feel free to correct my Boo-Boos. I colored the sections of Jordan and Robby that strangely match each other.

Jordan VOs and clips:

HER: This honestly is a dream come true
HIM over both of them: Honestly, this is the best thing that has ever happened to me
HIM to HER shown talking:I'm in love with you
HER to HIM: I want to be engaged and I want it to work. / HIM (shown looking down but with her stroking his hair): Once again I find myself in a place trying to defend myself. (This clip is followed by him catching a ball though... if that means anything.)
Getting attacked in voice-overs: Jordan and his brother drive me crazy already. / He's struttin' around. He's got his swagger goin' on. / Alex talks about Chad in a clip intermixed here / Jordan superstar. Obviously came here for fame and fortune.

The Chad Battle:
Chad to HIM: You are a 27 year old failed football player. You've done nothing with your life but throw a piece of leather. (Chad PI session) Best thing about Jordan is his brother. Worst thing about Jordan is... he is not his brother
HIM talking: Chad is not safe to be around. / Chad to HIM: If you literally think that. You don't have half a brain.
Chad threatening HIM: You think I can't find you. / HIM back: You think I'm scared of you?
Chad voice-over: He's just digging himself into a deep and deeper hole

HER: ... but I found a lot of it (a.k.a. "love", but with more than one person)
HER: I hope that I find... (the love that lasts forever)

Robby VOs and clips:

HER: ... find that love that Ben and Lauren found together. This is my love story now. (followed by a shot of Jordan instantly afterward, so that second line COULD reflect him instead)
HIM to HER shown talking: I've fallen in love with you Jo-Jo. I have. / HER to HIM: My biggest fear is ending up heartbroken again. / HER over BOTH him and, fleetingly, Jordan: That fear is always going to be in me.
Getting attacked in voice-overs: There are these rumors about Robby having a girlfriend.
HER to HIM: Robby, just be honest with me. / HIM to HER: I am being dead honest with you. / HER to HIM: If there's any... did you break up with her when you found out you were coming on the show? / HIM to HER: No. No... not even close!
Getting attacked again in voice-overs: Robby is a lying, fake person. She deserves the truth.
HIM talking about Chad: There's no doubt in my mind she could be in danger.
HER seated next to him but talking to all: I really care so much about you guys.
HER: Not only have I found love... (but I found a lot of it with more than one person)

Luke VOs and clips:

HIM: I felt that connection with Jo-Jo right away (shown over her horseback riding with... Alex?)
Derek speaking: This could be the first date with my future wife / HER: That makes me... (so happy)
HIM (or is it Robby?) speaking over HIM (I think) and Chase: I can see myself at the end of this down on one knee.
HER: (There's *something* about the Bad Boy)... that I seem to be drawn to. (This shot is interesting because they are shown with "fire" up front.)
HER (talking about Ben but over a kiss with Luke): ... and he opened my heart up to something I never expected.
HIM to HER: I didn't think it would be this good.
HER: (I hope that I find the love)... that lasts forever.

There is an interesting shot resembling past peek-a-boo shots of JP/Ashley and Desie/Prince Siegfried with what is obviously Luke's hand against her back, the dress matching a date of theirs.

OK... now the episode by episode promos...

3 & 4

Luke is shown during "I want to be a part of her world"
HER with Luke: "I can see a future with him"
Jordan shown in conflict with Chad, not with her
No Robby

4

All Chad mostly, but a little Jordan in the conflict

5

Chad telling Jordan: If you literally think that. You don't have half a brain.
HER sobbing as Jordan hugs her: I came here to find somebody I could spend my life with. (Does this mean she wants Jordan but he fails to be The One???)
Robby shown over line "very unreasonable person" (Huh?)

6 and rest

Luke: I can't think of a better place in the entire world to fall in love.
Luke to her: Everything about you just makes me want more of you.
HER: That passion that is Luke is just crrrrazeee.
James rats out Jordan: She definitely does not deserve to be with someone who just wants this for fame.
Jordan: It's just pathetic when somebody would bring up stuff like that.
HER: There's a side to Jordan that I don't know and that worries me.
Shot of Jordan over "she's gonna make a mistake"
More Jordan: I am starting to feel insecure and I don't want this to end

I am surprised at how buried Robby is. Usually the F1 is shown at least fleetingly in each promo. We have plenty of Jordan (mostly in conflict) and Luke (all romance).

************

The Guitar Rift a.k.a. Trista/Ryan Sutter Proposal Music

Jordan and Robby may get this music later, but Luke has a head start here. During the music, Jo-Jo says the following:

"There is so much about Luke that I like. I think he is rugged and he's sexy and that mysterious thing, there's something sexy about that. So... going into tonight, I want to know why and how Luke is the way he is today and how he has gotten to this point."

Additional Notes for those who need "details":

JBF -- Fabulous posts!! Just want to say thank you for all the effort and thought you put into your analysis of what is going on. I always make sure to read your posts!!

@JBF it is always a pleasure to read your analysis. I can feel there is no passion about one or the other that this is what makes it interesting.

One note:
Alex talks about Chad in a clip intermixed here / Jordan superstar. Obviously came here for fame and fortune.
► this is Chase's voice IMO

I have few segments/moments that would be nice of you to tell me your opinion

1. robby did a lot of ITM on episode 1 (as if he was an outsider dissecting what was going on: half are serious, half are not... then we see jake the architect with serious but we know he was eliminated first night)

2. Cheating diner Jordan/Jojo

3. crayy-zy Luke/jojo... we see luke talking looking away and she is touching her hair not looking at him, immediately seen into a passionate kiss and her crazy speech. I saw a one way street edit here

4. Jordan: 'she said that I am tough to read and this is kinda frustrating' 'she is kinda questioning and try to sort it out those feelings I know we have for each other'

episode 4 - cocktail party:

Jojo seems to express this only about jordan: 'you make me nervous' 'I thought a lot about you' 'I missed you' 'you are not vocal' 'I do not want to force you being in this, you know what I mean' 'you are so hard to read'

Jordan 'she keeps pressing to open up to her' 'If I do not express those feelings I'm gonna loose her' 'I am falling for you. I mean I can see someone that i can fall in love with. And it means the world to me. HER: this is the soft sweet jordan... who is this guy?)

HER ITM: Hearing that jordan is falling for me, that makes me excited. I needed that to hear that from jordan tonight. I needed to tell me where he stood in our relationship and I feel soooo good about it (saying yes with her head)

5. animals mixed here and there: duck in jordan intro, hummingbird (jordan), bear (chad), eagle (alex), dogs (luke)... we know edits love to associate animals with contestants. what is your take on this? relevant, not relevant?

6. (single date with luke). 'he is beautiful but he is also a country boy' 'cosy blanket, it was romantic' 'he is a man. He is a man's man' .. words 'hot' was said multiple times, romantic x2 'he is a gentleman' ... HER: 'first (dates) of many (whispered 2 times that date). Perfect on paper edits? Or F1. Edited for next bach?

7. Robby: bad edits? hidden? The kiss on the poll table was extremely hot. It seemed like 0 to 100 mph. His single date was about trust and sharing feelings. Jojo seemed VERY surprised that he said he was falling in love VERSUS Jordan that she begged him to tell her. Both relationship do not seem to be at the same mutual level. I have also the same feeling with luke.

8. Jordan single date: I found his date a lot more interrupted than usual with the guys. We hardly saw romantic on the expensive yacht. They jump in the dirty water with seals and straight to the diner part with this cheating (staged by prods?) conversation.

of course we could dissect every words and situations but do you think that Jordan could have been cast for the next bachelor gig but the prods changed their mind to Luke and knowing that Jordan decided to go to win the girl as no other alternative? Robby being a back up bad boy?

Do you know if the episodes are 'made' right after each 'week' episodes? If so, we could have had a change of script during the show? Jordan next bach turning F1?

Jojo said she knew about jordan before the premiere. 2 group dates were NFL. Being an ex NFL, do you think it was a done deal from the start?

It is funny that the top 4 are: 2 bad man/boy (robby and jordan) and 2 man/boy (luke and chase)

what about the motto of this season? Will jojo fall or not for the bad boy?

it seems to me that edits are truly insisting on the bad boys.

Thanks for your thoughts. I also hope that real life is giving you a break with this show.