NO SPOILERS - CHASE - Bachelorette 12 - *Sleuthing NO Spoilers*

I dunno.... To me the sentiment " I don't feel like you give much back" suggests, IMO, that she is on the giving end and that it is not reciprocated as she'd like. At least that's what her words indicate. Whether her BL and actions line up to her statement is another thing. But I would say in their 1on1 she was the one initiating most of the physical stuff - except for their first initial kiss. During the concert, she was consistently bringing him in for a kiss and he was a bit more reserved in that regard. So I don't know if she's talking about that or what.

But if we are to compare Chase to Luke, clearly it seems as though she's into Chase more than she is Luke, why else would she have sent home before Chase? Not because things were further along with Chase? Or that she was more incompatible with Luke?

Litta123 wrote:^^@AllAboutLove, I posted about this elsewhere, but I think the reason JoJo doesn't feel it, is because Chase uses the love language of doing...which I don't think is JoJo's love language. She seems to like physical touch and verbal expressions of love. If Chase and JoJo can get on the same page (and that's a big if), I think there might be a thread of hope.

This is a great point, Litta. 
She also has three other handsome men telling her "I'm falling for//in love with you." And the other three have also been more aggressive with her physically when compared to Chase.  I think she is looking for words of affirmation from him, and I'm guessing it's because she really likes him. She is basically giving him a chance to be on equal footing with the others by speaking up and asserting herself (it may be a good sign) and I hope he seizes the opportunity and more. That's my (foolishly optimistic?) take on it. 
In my view, if she wasn't really feeling it with him, she would've just gone through the motions with him and remained status quo like so many 'Ettes before her.

Why do we think that TPTB put Chase on the 2:1? Is it because they knew that Derek was a MOT and that she'd spend the rest of the night with Chase? In other 2:1 scenarios, so little is shown after the breakup with the rejectee that I'm puzzled about this turn of events. I think much rides on the way that the date is portrayed: If it focuses much more on Derek and letting him go and less on building with Chase, then I think that something is amiss here.

Could it be that Chase is telling JoJo that he's surprised that she put him on that date? It almost feels like a test, and Chase could be reacting to that, too.

Either way, I do think that this date is a turning point for them; it just depends on which way it goes.

I also am not entirely ready to rule Chase out as F1, but something would have to go awry with Jordan and Robby.

veg_out wrote:Why do we think that TPTB put Chase on the 2:1? Is it because they knew that Derek was a MOT and that she'd spend the rest of the night with Chase? In other 2:1 scenarios, so little is shown after the breakup with the rejectee that I'm puzzled about this turn of events. I think much rides on the way that the date is portrayed: If it focuses much more on Derek and letting him go and less on building with Chase, then I think that something is amiss here.

Could it be that Chase is telling JoJo that he's surprised that she put him on that date? It almost feels like a test, and Chase could be reacting to that, too.

Either way, I do think that this date is a turning point for them; it just depends on which way it goes.

I also am not entirely ready to rule Chase out as F1, but something would have to go awry with Jordan and Robby.

This puzzles me as well.
The way Chase is being edited (for reactions, the close ups, as one of the protagonists who could solve her love dilemma), has in the past sometimes pointed to an F1 (not always). If they are doing subliminal editing tricks to make us believe this, then putting Chase on a 2:1 would take us off that scent of him being an F1 (traditionally) (@Litta123 discussed that). 

To further cloud the edit issue I have with Chase...Say Luke is F4, I can see him being a major fan favorite and I can see how his edit (his dashing intro, his sweeping JoJo off her feet, the glowing reviews in JoJo's & Chris H's blogs) is pointing to him being next lead. So if Chase is not F1, where does that leave him? Are him and Luke neck in neck over next lead? Why edit him this way if he is not going to be significant? Meaning...not F1, not next lead, etc. 

Would they go to this trouble in the edit for BIP contestant? Maybe?

TPTB putting Chase on a 2on1, regardless of him going into F3, doesn't bode well for him as F1, imo, especially in light now that Jordan is in F2. I will be surprised if Chase is F1 at the end of this. Certainly a possibility but the only way I can make sense of it is if Jordan is F2 (and Jordan like Nick 1.0/FIR/F2 but at FRC) and the 2on1 is just to paint doubt in Chase's edit since he doesn't seem to have the controversy/negativity Robby and Jordan have with past exes/girlfriends?

I am not sure where Chase ends up if not F1. If F2 then I can see him getting the heartbreak edit and thus the foreshadowing in episode 1 when he held his heart because he didn't get FIR. So always coming up short to Jordan. If Chase is F3 then perhaps something happens that isn't convincing enough to make him a viable F1 as the show progresses? If Robby gets another 1on1 date then I could see Robby overshadowing Chase. As for Luke, I still think Luke at F4 is TPTB's likely next lead based on his edit alone alone but Chase at F2 or F3 could also be in the running then?

Regarding BIP. I don't recall anyone from F3 being on BIP before? I don't see how F2 could be on it and F3 spot is more for next lead gig option so I don't think the show would have someone from F3 on it? Not sure though

This thought has crossed my mind since last episode.... Are Derek and Chase on this 2:1 together for the simple reason that JoJo saw them as almost interchangeable or comparably equal in her ranking? I know the edit shows different but please bear with me while I take you along to explore this.... 


When the roses are handed out at RCs and the names are read in order on group date cards, both Chase and Derek are in a somewhat similar position. Derek's appears a little more favourably actually:

•Ep 1 RC: Derek - 6th // Chase - 9th
•Ep 2 Dates: Derek - 1:1 // Chase - no date (along w/ Brandon & James S)
•Ep 2 RC: Derek - already had // Chase - 8th (but Jordan was 9th so ?)
•Ep 3 Dates: Derek - no date (along w/ Robby & Luke) // Chase - 1:1
•Ep 3 RC: Derek - 5th (Jordan 6th so ?) // Chase - already had
•Ep 4 GD: Derek - 1st // Chase - 4th (JamesT & Daniel 2nd & 3rd so ?)
•Ep 4 RC: Derek - 4th // Chase - 6th (Robby 5th so ?)
•Ep 5 GD: Derek - 2nd // Chase - 3rd (Luke 1st)


Here is where I may read too much into the edit and where my suspicious nature is front and centre.... (I can't help it—I've been fooled too many times)....  So, they were each given the first 1:1s right?  So what would the edit look like if Chase was the one to go home on the 2:1 and Derek stayed?? :shocked!:

- Chase would be one of her MOTs. We wouldn't have seen much of him, let alone their romantic 1:1. :babies:
- Derek would be on our screen more and we would've seen more of his date. Did he and Jo have a romantic connection also? I have to guess yes because of the similar rankings above and upcoming 2:1 with Chase. As well, Robby apparently had a connection but we weren't privy to that either. 
- Would we (I guess I should say I here) like Derek? Would we not like Chase as much? 

Thankfully Chase does "win" the 2:1. Phew! :Woah-hoo: but It does appear that Derek and Chase might've really been neck and neck. So what happened for Chase to edge out (or eclipse) Derek?


- Did TPTB make the decision for Jo?
- Did the other guys tell her who to send home? (btw, I agree with them about Derek's manipulation last week. He has a shifty, underhanded and a somewhat creepy (<- cannot think of a better word here yet) vibe and way about him. At least that's what the edit is telling me, even in his conversations and expressions before the Ep 5 GD). 
- And more likely—What, if anything, did Chase do or say to sway Jo's decision in his favour?
- What, if anything, did Derek do or say to result in Jo sending him home? I'm thinking not much or nothing because she is shown crying pretty hard when he leaves. That said, he might've finally gotten on her nerves too hehe
- Or did Derek choose to go home on his own? Highly unlikely... this guy thinks he's won the lottery. 

So yeah, now I'm extra extra curious about this 2:1 to see how close we were to getting the Derek over Chase edit. Hurry up tomorrow!!

^I understand where you are going there rhondam, but...how did Luke possibly get cut at F4 before Chase if he was truly on equal footing as Derek? 
Looking back on their 1:1s, there just seems to be more there with Chase and JoJo than Derek and JoJo. Especially during their private concert.

Rhondam, thank you for doing that and offering up a unique way to consider things. It might explain the 2:1! Chase has been highlighted much more than Derek to date plus we know that he's in Thailand, so to most viewers he must be farther ahead than Derek. But maybe it really was a close call for Jo.

Here's where I get less romantic and more "UnReal" (it'll be a winding road to get to my point): Say that on night 1 JoJo was pretty much set on Jordan with Luke as a close 2nd. We know that TPTB manipulate, coerce, wheel and deal with the lead and the contestants to get their goals met for the season. What if she was instructed that she could have Jordan if she waited until mid-season to give him a 1:1 date? In the interim, she had to give it a chance with the guys that TPTB select for her dates.

TPTB see potential for Jo in Chase (I also think that he did catch her eye that first night). So, similar to older seasons where they used adrenaline dates to bond couples, they gave them a really awkward and uncomfortable and intense date where they are essentially preparing for the FSD. Why would they do that? Because they either 1.) need other people in the F4 2.) they want Chase as the next Bachelor 3.) they want an alternative for JoJo b:c they know her patterns and know that she needs to break them. It could be any of them.

But what did TPTB achieve on that date?: Chase and Jo connected. They both walk out of that date saying that they feel connected to each other and Jo says that he makes her feel safe and protected.

It's just hard to know where Chase really was in the lineup after this date namely because even at the Heinz Field date the info that she's saying about Chase shooting to the front was a VO.

In the same vein, now TPTB are putting Chase on a 2:1. Why? Do they see a stalling between these two? Is it to foster something deeper with someone b/c TPTB know that something or somethings are up ahead?

It's just curious and confusing and I'm wondering if TPTB's hands are more involved in Chase and Jo than I had hoped.

How much say do you think tptb have over who she chooses for SDs? And what week those SDs occur?

It has been speculated previously that tptb do get a say as to a few of the roses she hands out at RCs in order to keep some 'characters/drama queens', but you actually think tptb tell the lead who they can invite on a SD and when? I do think they threw in the 2:1 for alex and Chad in order to create drama.

My take on Jojo's choices for SDs was that she was asking the MOT/second tier guys early on and saving SDs for her favorites/first tier guys for a few weeks - as was suggested to her by Ali. She also seemed to give GD roses to the underdogs/ those that needed encouragement, IMO.

Mia, I guess that I don't have much faith that the lead has as much autonomy as the show might lead us to believe.

As I recall from previous insiders on FORT, on night 1, the lead sits down and gives his/her top 4, and the show arranges time for those relationships. We often hear contestants say that they didn't have time with the lead. For instance, take Jen S. last season or even Leah B. On night 1, Ben definitely had a connection with those two girls, particularly Jen S. In episode 2, she was his first kiss, I think. But then he had his date with Lauren in episode 3 and time with Jen slowly decreased and she faded to the back. I remember her saying that they just didn't have time. Also, the show controls the interruptions at cocktail parties and after parties, limiting time and relationship development. Contrast that with Jordan--he's getting the most time to be with her. He's been on a date every episode.

What I'm wondering is who JoJo named as her top 4 on night 1? Who knows what else was bargained on that night, i.e., "if you want Jordan, you can have him, it's just be ready for a roller coaster, and you'll need to give other guys a fair enough shot." And then, like you said, she ended up with her second tier guys on the early dates, which is the reason that Chase is a concern. Was he on her radar, or was he a producer pick?

Chase has had a lot of help: the snow date (aww) and then the knockerballs. He couldn't do those alone. It's a positive sign that the producers like him b:c they are helping him spend time with her. I just wonder the reason: Is it because JoJo really likes him? Or are they trying to forge a relationship with someone steady for her to fall back on if the other guys in her top tier fail? Or is it because they are interested in him as lead?

Very unromantic of me, I know!

Here's hoping that the date tonight is romantic!

^thanks for elaborating on that, Veg. What you said makes a lot of sense. Especially about Chase needing producer assistance with his gestures. She may have had 4 guys on night one as her top picks, but they may have left a big chunk of that SQT on the editing room floor. (Ie What I think was Robby). We cannot judge who she had time to build a connection with (got a lot more time with) by what is aired. I have always felt a bigger connection between her and Robby than has been aired. A lot of people say "he went from 0 to 60" but I don't believe that. He has had time with her that isnt being shown or is being cut way down. The envelop he brought to the pool party was never talked about, yet in the billiards room we hear Jo confirm that they are building something together and he really poured himself out to her. Those $(^#% just never let us see it. Why? I think it is because they wanted to keep Robby hidden in the first few weeks in order to focus on Jordan and the Chad drama.

If I had to take a guess at who her top 4 instant attraction guys were on night one, I would guess Jordan, Luke, Robby, and maybe Chad.

Yes! Exactly veg!! That is what I was trying to say some posts back. And yes Mia about time on the cutting room floor between JoJo and many others I'm sure-> ie Derek as I tried to say in last post. AC, I forgot about Luke in this equation. I was only only thinking about 2:1 guys. I have no idea how he gets from what appears to be 2nd or 3rd (I think 3rd) to 4th.