NO SPOILERS - JORDAN - Bachelorette 12 - *Sleuthing - NO Spoilers*

Lots of great posts! So many angles to think about!

rhondam wrote:
I watched closely, rewound often, scrutinized as usual and asked my repeated scene by scene, question, "Why are TPTB showing me what they're showing me?" 

There are so many times this season that I've asked myself that. A concern: The parallel experience between Jo and Jordan in episode 5 is interesting to me. Jo confronts Jordan about rumors, essentially tabloid fodder, and he has to squash them only for her to deal with the same thing later in the evening. In epi. 3, Jo tells Jordan that he is like her, and I'm wondering if Jordan is getting the JoJo edit except made much worse and without the protection of possible next lead. They seem to be mirrors of each other.

agentcurls wrote:To your point, @veg_out, it does seem like she isn't letting herself fall for others , or letting others fully "in" because she is settled on Jordan. It kind of reeks of Des' season? 

At this point, I can only hope that this season is like Des'. Des struggled with never receiving love in return. She, like Jo, chased Brooks and ignored red flags, like Jo is doing as she dismisses things. Like Ben's season where Lauren felt like the lead on their dates until the end, Jordan feels like the Bachelor to me this season. Des, though, had to make a huge, huge shift at the end of her season to get a happily-ever-after. She had to see Chris and his good love and break the pattern. I remember her crying on her LCD night with him about never having experienced a love like his. I want that for JoJo.

I do think that the story/the conflict that is being laid for Jo is about her breaking her pattern. If she doesn't, then that's her choice.

Lost17 wrote:veg, we all see things differently...some see connections that others don't.

Which is the reason that this forum is great! I love everyone's perspective since it pushes me to see other characters as viable options.

aviej wrote:
I think back to Andi's season. I heard somewhere - either from Andi or otherwise that TPTB did a lot of work to steer her away from Josh. Because the show would not have lasted beyond episode 2. So they do a lot of coaxing, setting up mini-dates (e.g Chase) to create an alternative for the lead and to "test" the strength of her relationship with the existing F1.

Exactly. I seriously think that when Jordan joked with her about not needing to see or meet anyone else on night 1 that Jo would have been fine with walking away then! TPTB held her back with him to save the season. Can they, though, pull them apart enough to make her not choose him?

A hope: Chad was Jordan's foil. In many ways, Jordan is very much like Chad (as is Alex ). Jo repeatedly stood up to Chad until she eventually cut him out of her life after giving him chances. The show is leaving in the edit that Jo eventually sees who a person really is and lets them go. They also keep telling us that she is scared of getting her heart broken. That's been left in there many times. So she likely stands up for herself at the end but it could still leave her heartbroken.

.

Veg, to your point above about Jo breaking her pattern twigged something in me that wasn't making sense to me before because I was mostly one-track minded that Jordan was F1. The reason for this was because I thought, in true typical Bach fashion, if tptb ARE showing Jordan in such a negative light, then we viewers are SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE that there is no chance that she would choose him as her F1 and of course, it's the opposite. 

This ^ coupled with her blogs written post-show with so much positive Jordan content has perhaps blinded me to the fact that the reason they ARE showing Jordan's negative aspects at all and her chasing him, is BECAUSE she actually does break her pattern, follows her head and let's him go. I realize many/most of you have been saying that all along but I was still stuck on WHY then, were tptb TELLING the story like this. 

BUT NOW the FRC preview at the end of Ep 5 is TELLING us that she is INDEED letting her F1 go, "I fell in love with you. And I still love you but what you did to me, it's not right. But I wanted you to know it's really hard for me to NOT ACCEPT THIS LOVE." and "I just LET GO of the man I—love." 

So again I think, why on earth are they giving that away too, it's so UNLIKE them? and what I come up with is: instead of a simple, typical Mike Fleiss "we're going to mislead you viewers all season long to give you a SURPRISE ending" edit. This season, they actually had the opportunity to change it up and give us a TRULY suspenseful season because her ending, IS suspenseful, no matter which of the three possible options she chooses. And I haven't watched Des' season (but I must) from what many of you say, is possibly similar to that—an actual FACTUAL twist.

^I think that is very possible, rhondam. 
The F1 doesn't always have a glowing edit and there is almost always some kind of doubt or obstacle mid-way through the season. With that said, this thing with Jordan seems over-the-top, even for Bach World. Unless...this is another Vienna situation?

Oh gosh, I missed another good season?? What happened with Vienna?

rhondam wrote:Oh gosh, I missed another good season?? What happened with Vienna?

It was the opposite of a good season.
Jake P. was so blinded by the physical chemistry with Vienna, that he ignored all of the other intelligent, beautiful, grounded ladies of his season's (Tenley, Ali, Jesse Sulidis) warnings about her immaturity, emotional instability, and volatile personality. 
Vienna's edit was a bit of a disaster and it was likely because TPTB knew it would be a train wreck post-season, and it was.

Ahhhh, okay well, this really is a fantastic season! I wonder if it would be if we were spoiled??

As you mentioned in Jake's season about other contestants' warnings, in episode 6 we see, yet again more question marks raised at Jordan. This time, JoJo is not the only one questioning Jordan but James T. - the nicest guy would've ever meet (according to JoJo). So, do you believe James T's concerns are grounded in his jealously or has he genuinely picked up attributes which are concerning? Also Alex accuses Jordan of being there for fame in the next episode as well. Or maybe it's too early to tell and we'd have to wait and see. But in my opinion, there are far TOO many obstacles for these two. Normally it's just one factor and we see it resolved. But with Jordan it's like a never ending nightmare, IMO.

rhondam wrote:Ahhhh, okay well, this really is a fantastic season! I wonder if it would be if we were spoiled??

That's a really interesting question, rhonda. My guess is no. Last season (Ben's) should have been a good season because there actually was a love story...but I was bored out of my mind watching. I think knowing Lauren was Ben's pick was made clear by what we saw. It only got good for me when the two ILYs came up. I became engaged because I wanted to know how good guy Ben was going to get out of that one.

Another thought I have:

TPTB coerced Jordan into returning so that JoJo could break his heart. (Although, I'm not sure how heartbroken he truly might be) 
Next lead=Jordan. Redemption.

This might be the only thing to salvage his edit to become a viable next lead?

agentcurls wrote:Another thought I have:

TPTB coerced Jordan into returning so that JoJo could break his heart. (Although, I'm not sure how heartbroken he truly might be) 
Next lead=Jordan. Redemption.

This might be the only thing to salvage his edit to become a viable next lead?

I think there is a better chance for Jordan going on BIP for Jordan versus Chad 2.0! Maybe they'll put it on pay-per-view. My money's on Chad for the TKO.