Joelle Fletcher - (JoJo) - Bachelor 20 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

Lucas15 wrote:

avacaroline wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:That's why I had a hard time liking JoJo. I tried giving her the benefit of the doubt but she appeared to be going with the flow. I didn't see any real affection from her but rather a forced affection. The water pic which is suppose to be a very romantic date, even then she has her left hand on his chest. At that point in the season, you should be bear hugging him.

I had the same reaction to her. The letter debacle and her horrible acting job and then the over the top meeting with her family, just pushed it over the edge for me.  I just found it so un-believable.

I think there's a difference between good acting and overacting and it makes all the difference in how believable the scene is. The letter debacle (good word for it BTW) is a case in point. JoJo's walk around the room with sobbing heard strains credibility for me because when the camera zoomed in on her, her mascara was perfect and her eyes were dry.

I found the scene by the waterfall hard to believe also - not for one big thing but for many little things. JoJo's head shake and "What?" when Ben says ILY the first time just struck me as what you would get if you told someone (without good acting training) "Act surprised when Ben says ILY" and that was JoJo's interpretation of what acting surprised would look like. But I don't think real people in real situations would act that way - it was just that little bit of over the top reaction that left me behind. When Ben said ILY to JoJo I really didn't expect her to say "Can you say that?" Why is she thinking of show rules when she should be basking in the joy of hearing ILY from a man she is supposed to be in love with? As GA expected a bear hug - she should have given him a bear hug and all that should have been the only thing on her mind - Ben and a love that she feels - not the show and it's stupid "rules".

Her rambling preamble to her admission to Ben that she loves him was just too many words and too little emotion. A simple "Ben, it's hard for me to admit this to myself and to you but I love you" would have been much more appropriate.

When JoJo talked about things that happened on her home town date she referred to it as "hometown". Sure - that's the word the show uses - but Lauren referred to that time as "when we were in Portland" and that's how real people being real would think of it. Don't talk in jargon or showspeak - talk real. Otherwise I'm going to think you're just doing a show and immersed in the process of the show - and not being real.
JMHO

So this has always been my question....let's assume, for the sake of conversation, that JoJo was playing a role. How aware of this would she be?  Is it something as blatant as, "here's what we need you to do and say" or is it a case of master puppeteering?

bleuberry wrote:Great post Lucas.

Eviebloom wrote:Also on the dog discussion.  Why would Ben say they were going to get a dog about Jojo?  Jojo already has a dog!  She just posted lots of photos of the dog.  I also am really suspicious that she posted that photograph after people here were posting about Ben mentioning getting a dog in an interview.  I also agree that other seasons the F2 put out posts that maybe seemed like they were F1, I believe Becca did that.  However TPTB may be encouraging them to do that.  Just my take on this discussion.  

Because Jojo shares custody of the dog with her ex; and, I'm sure he would want to end that connection as soon as possible.  jmo

2observe wrote:

Eviebloom wrote:Also on the dog discussion.  Why would Ben say they were going to get a dog about Jojo?  Jojo already has a dog!  She just posted lots of photos of the dog.  I also am really suspicious that she posted that photograph after people here were posting about Ben mentioning getting a dog in an interview.  I also agree that other seasons the F2 put out posts that maybe seemed like they were F1, I believe Becca did that.  However TPTB may be encouraging them to do that.  Just my take on this discussion.  

Because Jojo shares custody of the dog with her ex; and, I'm sure he would want to end that connection as soon as possible.  jmo

If that is the case, which I don't think it is, I can tell Ben that is never going to happen. They have a dog together so the connection will always be there. I don't want to compare it to kids, but especially if you don't have them, a dog is similar in that it ties you together. I am actually going through a divorce myself right now. My husband and I have 2 dogs. We are each going to take one, however plan to share them and still help each other out when one of us needs to be away or whatever. The dogs will always keep us connected if not for anything else.

avacaroline wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

avacaroline wrote:

I had the same reaction to her. The letter debacle and her horrible acting job and then the over the top meeting with her family, just pushed it over the edge for me.  I just found it so un-believable.

I think there's a difference between good acting and overacting and it makes all the difference in how believable the scene is. The letter debacle (good word for it BTW) is a case in point. JoJo's walk around the room with sobbing heard strains credibility for me because when the camera zoomed in on her, her mascara was perfect and her eyes were dry.

I found the scene by the waterfall hard to believe also - not for one big thing but for many little things. JoJo's head shake and "What?" when Ben says ILY the first time just struck me as what you would get if you told someone (without good acting training) "Act surprised when Ben says ILY" and that was JoJo's interpretation of what acting surprised would look like. But I don't think real people in real situations would act that way - it was just that little bit of over the top reaction that left me behind. When Ben said ILY to JoJo I really didn't expect her to say "Can you say that?" Why is she thinking of show rules when she should be basking in the joy of hearing ILY from a man she is supposed to be in love with? As GA expected a bear hug - she should have given him a bear hug and all that should have been the only thing on her mind - Ben and a love that she feels - not the show and it's stupid "rules".

Her rambling preamble to her admission to Ben that she loves him was just too many words and too little emotion. A simple "Ben, it's hard for me to admit this to myself and to you but I love you" would have been much more appropriate.

When JoJo talked about things that happened on her home town date she referred to it as "hometown". Sure - that's the word the show uses - but Lauren referred to that time as "when we were in Portland" and that's how real people being real would think of it. Don't talk in jargon or showspeak - talk real. Otherwise I'm going to think you're just doing a show and immersed in the process of the show - and not being real.
JMHO

So this has always been my question....let's assume, for the sake of conversation, that JoJo was playing a role. How aware of this would she be?  Is it something as blatant as, "here's what we need you to do and say" or is it a case of master puppeteering?

Lucas, I know this is conspiracy theory at its best.
I think they possibly approached Jojo with this mid season because Ben knew it was Lauren for him- done deal. But, we can't have that in THE BACHELOR...they need to be conflicted to the end. Lauren may have known, too - which is why "I've never been in love with two people, but I suppose it's possible," was timed perfectly. Jojo will act very blindsided and hurt. The blindside conversation may have been scripted, too...sure, America loses a bit of respect for Ben, but he can claim he made a mistake, and people will forget about it because of the love story we're getting with Lauren.
I find her reactions to be OTT. She feels like a character. It could've been worked out that she posted a dog picture after Ben dropped "dog" in the interview to make fans go berzerk - it worked!  JMO. I'll be the first to say I was wrong if Ben and Jojo are actually engaged. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Fleiss said, "You'll be up for bachelorette not this time, but next..." (if you're not already with someone and want it). It keeps Jojo there to the end with all the perks of being on TV and fame (now she can be America's sweetheart because people will feel sorry for her).

avacaroline wrote:So this has always been my question....let's assume, for the sake of conversation, that JoJo was playing a role. How aware of this would she be?  Is it something as blatant as, "here's what we need you to do and say" or is it a case of master puppeteering?

Great question - does the bait know it's the bait or do they think they're the only fish in the ocean? I don't think I know enough to say in this case but let's take one where my guess might be more accurate. IMO Shayne Lamas was an aspiring actress looking for screen time to jump start a stalled career. Matt Grant wanted to get into Hollywood and saw the daughter of a famous actor as a possible stepping stone. IMO in that case Shayne and Matt both knew theirs was a business relationship - each was bait for the other, and in that situation I think the producers didn't have to manipulate feelings to get what they wanted - they could just tell Shayne "Act surprised" or "Look at him like you love him" and she'd do a plausible job of doing just that.

The thing about JoJo is that she has appeared in Reality TV before - I watched a clip of her time on the HTD for the Ready For Love show her half brother Ben Patton appeared in:

Ready For Love

She knows the drill, IMO you could see her delivering necessary / producer driven lines in that episode. As CH once said (IIRC) when it was suggested he go on the show to find someone after his divorce - when you know what goes on behind the curtain the process doesn't work.

IMO, if I had to guess, JoJo's position is closer to Shayne's in that she could know just how reality TV works and because she does - she'd be hard to manipulate because she'd see it coming. While I don't know enough to say whether they might have to manipulate JoJo to get what they want, or simply tell her what they want and let her do the best job she can of giving it to them, or some of both, I do believe that the producers quickly learned how to work with JoJo and adapted their technique to work well specifically with her.

It's possible, in my mind, that the reason Ben was able to promise he wouldn't blindside JoJo is because they both knew they were playing roles and when someone knows the role they are playing - you can't blindside them.

I suspect that after the dust of this season settles out and we see what people do once the show is over, we may get a better answer to your question.
JMHO

With all of the ladies that likely signed up to win Ben's heart ( a line a mile long) why would they need an "actor" to come in and play a role? To make the show more dynamic and drama-fueled?

agentcurls wrote:With all of the ladies that likely signed up to win Ben's heart ( a line a mile long) why would they need an "actor" to come in and play a role? To make the show more dynamic and drama-fueled?

They probably didn't predict that his feelings for any one person that early would be that strong. I'm not saying she was picked for that role pre - taping, but I don't think it was out of the realm of possibility that the producers saw her and thought "Jackpot" when they needed to produce a story line.

agentcurls wrote:With all of the ladies that likely signed up to win Ben's heart ( a line a mile long) why would they need an "actor" to come in and play a role? To make the show more dynamic and drama-fueled?

It's my understanding that there is a formula for every season and they find a way to get everyone to "play their part". I have always been curious to know how aware the contestants are of this.

agentcurls wrote:With all of the ladies that likely signed up to win Ben's heart (a line a mile long) why would they need an "actor" to come in and play a role? To make the show more dynamic and drama-fueled?

IMO they indeed did have a storyline for this season - written well ahead of time - and they cast the best people out of a long list to pull off the key roles. I don't know what criteria they might have used to cast this particular role but they apparently felt - for whatever their reasons - that JoJo would be good for it. I think she was a good choice because I think the average viewer sees JoJo as a very viable F1 at this point and that's exactly what they want.
JMHO

I really don't see any "acting" from her other than the fed lines that they force everyone to say in the ITMs. What I also see in her is a realist who knows that her chances of being the one are 1/25 so she wasn't a lovesick chaser/gusher from moment one about a guy she spends a few hours with every week at the beginning.

Based on her background, it appears that she is used to being in sophisticated social circles and is also comfortable around men. She isn't desperate like so many that come on the show so often act. She appears to have a good life all on her own. She admitted that her last relationship was rough so she is often guarded with her feelings but is still warm and supportive of Ben. She opens up when she receives reciprocation.

**edited**
JMO

avacaroline wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

avacaroline wrote:

I had the same reaction to her. The letter debacle and her horrible acting job and then the over the top meeting with her family, just pushed it over the edge for me.  I just found it so un-believable.

I think there's a difference between good acting and overacting and it makes all the difference in how believable the scene is. The letter debacle (good word for it BTW) is a case in point. JoJo's walk around the room with sobbing heard strains credibility for me because when the camera zoomed in on her, her mascara was perfect and her eyes were dry.

I found the scene by the waterfall hard to believe also - not for one big thing but for many little things. JoJo's head shake and "What?" when Ben says ILY the first time just struck me as what you would get if you told someone (without good acting training) "Act surprised when Ben says ILY" and that was JoJo's interpretation of what acting surprised would look like. But I don't think real people in real situations would act that way - it was just that little bit of over the top reaction that left me behind. When Ben said ILY to JoJo I really didn't expect her to say "Can you say that?" Why is she thinking of show rules when she should be basking in the joy of hearing ILY from a man she is supposed to be in love with? As GA expected a bear hug - she should have given him a bear hug and all that should have been the only thing on her mind - Ben and a love that she feels - not the show and it's stupid "rules".

Her rambling preamble to her admission to Ben that she loves him was just too many words and too little emotion. A simple "Ben, it's hard for me to admit this to myself and to you but I love you" would have been much more appropriate.

When JoJo talked about things that happened on her home town date she referred to it as "hometown". Sure - that's the word the show uses - but Lauren referred to that time as "when we were in Portland" and that's how real people being real would think of it. Don't talk in jargon or showspeak - talk real. Otherwise I'm going to think you're just doing a show and immersed in the process of the show - and not being real.
JMHO

So this has always been my question....let's assume, for the sake of conversation, that JoJo was playing a role. How aware of this would she be?  Is it something as blatant as, "here's what we need you to do and say" or is it a case of master puppeteering?

I can shed some light with a true story:
Seasons ago I was communicating with a male cast person(I believe it was Jillian's season). He had been selected for the season and was at the Meat and Geek.
He was approached by a producer with a rough outline for a role to play during his time on the show. It was a negative type role that the cast person did not want to pursue. It was a type of storyline he was going to be following. When the cast person mentioned his displeasure with this situation he was "let go" by production.
This cast person was not shown on the episode at all.
Now of course, I did not buy this story and was skeptical. The cast person showed me a photo taken with the entire group and the ette; the famous posed formal cast photo. Then he sent me link to cast bio pics. He was missing and another replaced him. The one replacing him was not in the formal cast photo.
Ironically not, the one replacing him had been eliminated night one at the Meat and Geek.  Since several cast play negative behavior type roles it was ambiguous which male cast took on that role.

Shayne Lamas obviously fell in like with Matt Grant and vice versa. It was pretty obvious that season she was fulfilling an acting debut.