The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 6 - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

GuardianAngel wrote:IMO Lauren was very composed dealing with that conversation. I can relate to that. You keep composed during a difficult situation you didn't see coming, deal with it, then later fall apart. The other thing I admired, is she didn't, or at least we didn't see her, grill him, asking who said it. I know I would have in that situation. I would have dragged him to the person to confront them in front of him. I can think of a lot of former contestants who would have handled it with much more drama than Lauren.

The other thing I felt after watching that portion over and over but didn't post was that Leah was not at all emotional nor did she seem surprised when Ben sent her home. IMO it's possible that she knew she was a MOT girl and probably going to be leaving soon anyway (perhaps even wanted to) and the producers put her up to the whole thing. If they did then the only ones probably blindsided were Ben and Lauren. Of course not only did Lauren show "grace under pressure" and make no effort (that we saw) to confront who said such things about her, she also didn't become defensive - she only said she felt like she's been pretty genuine in who she is.

IMO if Ben took the time to reflect on how Lauren handled this, and I think he did, then he got the best answer he could have gotten and Lauren proved Leah wrong.

Miyala wrote:I wonder if a lot of people would read my face how many different conclusions they would come to?!! When I watch Laurens expressions she makes these small sad smiles coming from a place of uncertainty or trying to be nice to him but really only feelings sad/confused. Some people smile when they are nervous (for me it can be terrible, I sometimes laughs out load when I get really nervous eg. when someone falls bad) Others read them as calculating… I would say we all interpret what we see from a place within us. We often, but not always, see what we want to see.

Lol I was laughing at your post, with you not at you. I broke into giggles and couldn't stop them at my grandpa's funeral because of the alterboy and his problems with the incense!! Thankfully they were only the silent shoulder shaking, tears streaming kind of giggles but still.     

You are totally correct we all see what we want to see but unless we are trying to fool ourselves, I believe in most cases, it is more so what our memories and values from our own experiences tell us. I honestly didn't want to see Lauren act a certain way. In fact, I'd like to see her as likeable and legitimately into Ben and I look for it from week to week. I even re-watch and re-watch scenes to see if I can interpret them another way. I know that this is possible because I saw Britt completely different the second time I watched CS's season compared to the first time. All that said, it is extremely interesting how the mind works to arrive at our individual perceptions and then also how our own perceptions can change based on our frame of mind at another place in time.

Miyala wrote:I wonder if a lot of people would read my face how many different conclusions they would come to?!! When I watch Laurens expressions she makes these small sad smiles coming from a place of uncertainty or trying to be nice to him but really only feelings sad/confused. Some people smile when they are nervous (for me it can be terrible, I sometimes laughs out load when I get really nervous eg. when someone falls bad) Others read them as calculating… I would say we all interpret what we see from a place within us. We often, but not always, see what we want to see.

great post Miyala!

rhondam wrote:

Miyala wrote:I wonder if a lot of people would read my face how many different conclusions they would come to?!! When I watch Laurens expressions she makes these small sad smiles coming from a place of uncertainty or trying to be nice to him but really only feelings sad/confused. Some people smile when they are nervous (for me it can be terrible, I sometimes laughs out load when I get really nervous eg. when someone falls bad) Others read them as calculating… I would say we all interpret what we see from a place within us. We often, but not always, see what we want to see.

Lol I was laughing at your post, with you not at you. I broke into giggles and couldn't stop them at my grandpa's funeral because of the alterboy and his problems with the incense!! Thankfully they were only the silent shoulder shaking, tears streaming kind of giggles but still.     

You are totally correct we all see what we want to see but unless we are trying to fool ourselves, I believe in most cases, it is more so what our memories and values from our own experiences tell us. I honestly didn't want to see Lauren act a certain way. In fact, I'd like to see her as likeable and legitimately into Ben and I look for it from week to week. I even re-watch and re-watch scenes to see if I can interpret them another way. I know that this is possible because I saw Britt completely different the second time I watched CS's season compared to the first time. All that said, it is extremely interesting how the mind works to arrive at our individual perceptions and then also how our own perceptions can change based on our frame of mind at another place in time.

Its good to know that I`m not the only one laughing when its not suitable.

I agree, what we see often has to do with experiences. The problem though IMO is that even though this often is very helpful (for me most of the times) these experiences can also lead us in an false direction. That, I would say, is easily done when it comes to the bachelor because they live on manipulation people AND these girls are NOT in a normal daily life situation. I find Lauren pretty controlled, BUT I would guess she may not be the same when in her daily life. I can't understand how anyone could fully be themselves in this environment. The interesting thing in her talk with Ben is that she said that she she feels like she has been PRETTY genuine to who she is… I don't think that it is possible to fully be yourself 100% in this show. What I want is too see Lauren let loose. I think its very important for her how she comes across. That is not a bad thing (its understandable, how many doesn't let loose and they get the bad image) BUT I think that what makes me sometime feel like I don't know if she is fully herself. I do trust that he knows her better than me and he seems to be a grounded guy so…

Miyala wrote:

rhondam wrote:

Miyala wrote:I wonder if a lot of people would read my face how many different conclusions they would come to?!! When I watch Laurens expressions she makes these small sad smiles coming from a place of uncertainty or trying to be nice to him but really only feelings sad/confused. Some people smile when they are nervous (for me it can be terrible, I sometimes laughs out load when I get really nervous eg. when someone falls bad) Others read them as calculating… I would say we all interpret what we see from a place within us. We often, but not always, see what we want to see.

Lol I was laughing at your post, with you not at you. I broke into giggles and couldn't stop them at my grandpa's funeral because of the alterboy and his problems with the incense!! Thankfully they were only the silent shoulder shaking, tears streaming kind of giggles but still.     

You are totally correct we all see what we want to see but unless we are trying to fool ourselves, I believe in most cases, it is more so what our memories and values from our own experiences tell us. I honestly didn't want to see Lauren act a certain way. In fact, I'd like to see her as likeable and legitimately into Ben and I look for it from week to week. I even re-watch and re-watch scenes to see if I can interpret them another way. I know that this is possible because I saw Britt completely different the second time I watched CS's season compared to the first time. All that said, it is extremely interesting how the mind works to arrive at our individual perceptions and then also how our own perceptions can change based on our frame of mind at another place in time.

   Its good to know that I`m not the only one laughing when its not suitable.

I agree, what we see often has to do with experiences. The problem though IMO is that even though this often is very helpful (for me most of the times) these experiences can also lead us in an false direction. That, I would say, is easily done when it comes to the bachelor because they live on manipulation people AND these girls are NOT in a normal daily life situation. I find Lauren pretty controlled, BUT I would guess she may not be the same when in her daily life. I can't understand how anyone could fully be themselves in this environment. The interesting thing in her talk with Ben is that she said that she she feels like she has been PRETTY genuine to who she is… I don't think that it is possible to fully be yourself 100% in this show. What I want is too see Lauren let loose. I think its very important for her how she comes across. That is not a bad thing (its understandable, how many doesn't let loose and they get the bad image) BUT I think that what makes me sometime feel like I don't know if she is fully herself. I do trust that he knows her better than me and he seems to be a grounded guy so…

While our own experiences impact how we view things, I think the bigger issue is that the producers edit the show so that we only see what they want us to see. If they want us to doubt the connection, they can easily leave out parts of the conversation that show them bonding or parts of her reaction that would show her more sympathetically.

I think the girl that was "getting jiggy wit the piggies" is most likely how Lauren is in her comfort (out with friend/family) zone. I found it quite cute. She also seems to have a sense of humor and a fun side ....on her date with Ben, was so relax and happy. He laughed and smiled a lot.
I can't blame Lauren to be cautious about how she appear. For sakes look at Olivia and Jubilee who were wearing their feelings on their sleeves and got a bum deal.
I am sure that Caila, JoJo and Amanda are all showing a persona of themselves as well and not exactly who they are for real. The same goes for Ben

Miyala wrote:

rhondam wrote:

Miyala wrote:I wonder if a lot of people would read my face how many different conclusions they would come to?!! When I watch Laurens expressions she makes these small sad smiles coming from a place of uncertainty or trying to be nice to him but really only feelings sad/confused. Some people smile when they are nervous (for me it can be terrible, I sometimes laughs out load when I get really nervous eg. when someone falls bad) Others read them as calculating… I would say we all interpret what we see from a place within us. We often, but not always, see what we want to see.

Lol I was laughing at your post, with you not at you. I broke into giggles and couldn't stop them at my grandpa's funeral because of the alterboy and his problems with the incense!! Thankfully they were only the silent shoulder shaking, tears streaming kind of giggles but still.     

You are totally correct we all see what we want to see but unless we are trying to fool ourselves, I believe in most cases, it is more so what our memories and values from our own experiences tell us. I honestly didn't want to see Lauren act a certain way. In fact, I'd like to see her as likeable and legitimately into Ben and I look for it from week to week. I even re-watch and re-watch scenes to see if I can interpret them another way. I know that this is possible because I saw Britt completely different the second time I watched CS's season compared to the first time. All that said, it is extremely interesting how the mind works to arrive at our individual perceptions and then also how our own perceptions can change based on our frame of mind at another place in time.

   Its good to know that I`m not the only one laughing when its not suitable.

I agree, what we see often has to do with experiences. The problem though IMO is that even though this often is very helpful (for me most of the times) these experiences can also lead us in an false direction. That, I would say, is easily done when it comes to the bachelor because they live on manipulation people AND these girls are NOT in a normal daily life situation. I find Lauren pretty controlled, BUT I would guess she may not be the same when in her daily life. I can't understand how anyone could fully be themselves in this environment. The interesting thing in her talk with Ben is that she said that she she feels like she has been PRETTY genuine to who she is… I don't think that it is possible to fully be yourself 100% in this show. What I want is too see Lauren let loose. I think its very important for her how she comes across. That is not a bad thing (its understandable, how many doesn't let loose and they get the bad image) BUT I think that what makes me sometime feel like I don't know if she is fully herself. I do trust that he knows her better than me and he seems to be a grounded guy so…

I disagree. I think some of the girls are very much the same in daily life as they are on the show. I can see Lauren being one of them. Becca is another example, people seen to say she is as sweet in real life as she has been on the shows. idk.

Poor Leah can't compete. Instead of trying to turn on the charm and butter Ben up, she decides to take the low road; to win by default by eliminating the competition. She should have put more time and thought into the lies she was going to tell Ben. The ones she told were so vague and nebulous that they were meaningless. And Ben was just sitting there and realizes on the spot what this chick Leah is all about -- backstabbing just to get an advantage.

If she had been wise, instead of spending that time on that date complaining and crying to Ben about his inattention while he was giving her attention, she should have pulled him aside and tried to connect with him.

And if Leah is capable of lying over something like this, just imagine how easily lies flow out of her mouth and what that says for her integrity. Ben made the right call.


What do these people think they signed up for? At most they have a 1 in 25 chance at getting close to finding a husband, then they get all upset when they get eliminated. Hello, 24 people are going to get sent home. Either don't sign up, go home on your own, or suck it up.

I have another take on Leah's possible thought process at the time. 

Caila got the single date, that Leah wanted. Now she hoped for the 2 on 1 date (which she said at least twice that she would prefer to the group date). So now, when her name was read out for the group date, I believe she knew she was the one going home at the next RC because: a) Jen had just been eliminated at the last RC, b) either Emily or Olivia were going to be sent home at the 2 on 1 and c) out of the girls left (including Olivia and Emily) she knew she was furthest down the list of possible choices for Ben. 

Knowing that, I wonder if she thought (with some help from her producer) that she might as well warn Ben with some of her last moments alone with him and as a last ditch effort to get him to see what she apparently saw. If that's not the case, she'd have to be pretty unaware to think that spending your next to last moments alone with Ben talking about someone else was going to make him suddenly see her as someone he overlooked and would like to keep after all. 

I just know how the show is manipulated and I like to see other angles, besides the ones TPTB show me, to see what else could've likely or logically happened.

ETA to add: oh @Lucas, I see you had similar thoughts about Leah already knowing she was going home up thread.

rhondam wrote:I have another take on Leah's possible thought process at the time. 

Caila got the single date, that Leah wanted. Now she hoped for the 2 on 1 date (which she said at least twice that she would prefer to the group date). So now, when her name was read out for the group date, I believe she knew she was the one going home at the next RC because: a) Jen had just been eliminated at the last RC, b) either Emily or Olivia were going to be sent home at the 2 on 1 and c) out of the girls left (including Olivia and Emily) she knew she was furthest down the list of possible choices for Ben. 

Knowing that, I wonder if she thought (with some help from her producer) that she might as well warn Ben with some of her last moments alone with him and as a last ditch effort to get him to see what she apparently saw. If that's not the case, she'd have to be pretty unaware to think that spending your next to last moments alone with Ben talking about someone else was going to make him suddenly see her as someone he overlooked and would like to keep after all. 

I just know how the show is manipulated and I like to see other angles, besides the ones TPTB show me, to see what else could've likely or logically happened.

Personally, I just think she watched too much Survivor and wanted to single handedly vote LB off the island and it backfired. It was very malicious and calculating how detailed her lie was. She was just trying to save her own skin and got burnt. Her jealousy meter went sky high when she could see the LauBen connection on the group date. It shut down most of the girls but it gave Leah a rise to go after LB through the back door. Her bold face lie when asked if she said anything was telling. She certainly has some splaining to do at the WTA. She'll cower and apologize and all will be forgiven.

ForeverLove wrote:

rhondam wrote:I have another take on Leah's possible thought process at the time. 

Caila got the single date, that Leah wanted. Now she hoped for the 2 on 1 date (which she said at least twice that she would prefer to the group date). So now, when her name was read out for the group date, I believe she knew she was the one going home at the next RC because: a) Jen had just been eliminated at the last RC, b) either Emily or Olivia were going to be sent home at the 2 on 1 and c) out of the girls left (including Olivia and Emily) she knew she was furthest down the list of possible choices for Ben. 

Knowing that, I wonder if she thought (with some help from her producer) that she might as well warn Ben with some of her last moments alone with him and as a last ditch effort to get him to see what she apparently saw. If that's not the case, she'd have to be pretty unaware to think that spending your next to last moments alone with Ben talking about someone else was going to make him suddenly see her as someone he overlooked and would like to keep after all. 

I just know how the show is manipulated and I like to see other angles, besides the ones TPTB show me, to see what else could've likely or logically happened.

Personally, I just think she watched too much Survivor and wanted to single handedly vote LB off the island and it backfired. It was very malicious and calculating how detailed her lie was. She was just trying to save her own skin and got burnt. Her jealousy meter went sky high when she could see the LauBen connection on the group date. It shut down most of the girls but it gave Leah a rise to go after LB through the back door. Her bold face lie when asked if she said anything was telling. She certainly has some splaining to do at the WTA. She'll cower and apologize and all will be forgiven.

I think she has already apologised and Lauren is cool with it. In the end Lauren wasn't harmed in any way, it wasn't earth shattering slander.

I was just recounting the possible mindset that led to Leah's betrayal. I'm new to the board so didn't discuss it in the moment. For me, the extent of her slander was alarming and it wasn't Leah's finest moment for sure. I read about the apology here and kudos to those two.