The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

tennischick80 wrote:I was thinking about it...for those of you who have watched most seasons - what would you say is the biggest contributing factor for these breakups post show?

Jef/Emily?
Ali/Roberto?
Whitney/Chris?
Byron/ Mary?
Brad/Emily?
Jake/Vienna?

Of course, the last duo was doomed from the start because of how immature they both are.

Ben also said in his people interview that on the day, he wondered if he should just ask Lauren to date instead of get engaged...he said that he wanted to leave with Lauren...wouldn't he be able to leave the experience with Lauren even if they dated?

Don't get me wrong, I want them to marry and think they are headed that way seriously, but it just struck me as an odd thing to say.

I've watched most seasons. Here is my opinion:

Emily/Jef - Emily was never going to marry anyone from the show. Total bubble "love." She's since admitted she didn't even want to get engaged the second time. Jef and Em broke up within like 2 months of the finale. One of the quicker burn outs for the 'ettes.

Ali/Roberto- Actually lasted like a year and a half, so I do think it was a little more than bubble love. Roberto was probably a default pick though, Ali wanted Frank who left at F3. And at the end of the day, the two just weren't well suited. Ali wanted fame and to stay relevant. Roberto wanted to fade into obscurity. Extrovert vs. introvert. Different ideas on how they wanted to live.

Whitney/Chris- Chris was NOT into Whitney. No one on his season was right for him. Whitney was picked by default- the only one who said all the right things about wanting to move to the farm. Additionally, It's becoming apparent Chris was mostly in this for fame, not to legitimately find a wife. Out of the bubble, Whit prob realized she had too much going for her (she's a smart, kind lady) than to move to the farm or deal with Chris' famewhoring. They were caput by last May. 6 months together total.

Byron/Mary- They had a 5 year relationship, so this one was real. Lots of domestic abuse and police calls involving drinking. Obviously they just had real life issues they couldn't overcome.

Brad/Emily- See Emily and Jef. Emily was NEVER going to marry someone from this show. It's not her personality type. She was never into Brad AT ALL. He was infatuated with her though. It was never going to work. They already had major issues by the time ATFR aired. It was completely over by May. 6 months.

Jake/Vienna- Hahahaha. Biggest train wreck in Bachelor history. Both are vile people who brought out the worst in each other. They lasted until June. 7 months total.

But there have been many couples that SEEMED perfect- Jen/Andrew, Tessa/Andy, even Mere/Ian and their crazy chemistry- that couldn't make it work. Otoh, we have Molly/Jason and Sean/Catherine that seemed to have serious issues and incompatibilities that are happily (?) married or at the very least, married. I think it's just the transition from reality tv life and love to the real thing. If a couple doesn't want to be together or conversely does want to be together, it's almost irrelevant how perfect for each other or imperfect they are, it's all about their real connection/love/effort imo.

tennischick80 wrote:I was thinking about it...for those of you who have watched most seasons - what would you say is the biggest contributing factor for these breakups post show?

All these are just personal opinions:

Jef/Emily? - Emily was not looking for a husband (or a step-father for Ricki) - she wanted exposure to lead into a career on TV. Jef was an "arranged" choice from the very beginning who (she thought) understood the arrangement.
Ali/Roberto? - Frank was actually ali's first choice but he went back to his EX before she could pick him. Roberto and Ali wanted very different lives and they could never reconcile those differences. Like Emily, Ali wanted to be on TV or in some sort of limelight.
Whitney/Chris? - Chris was not looking for a wife - just notoriety (to lead into politics maybe) and wanted more like a "friend with benefits". Maybe Whitney never got that memo or finally decided she got tired of providing the benefits with no real future. I know I would have.
Byron/ Mary? - I think they started out in love but her drinking and the tumultuous relationship they had over years grew to be too much.
Brad/Emily? - see Jef and Emily - same thing - only Brad stood in the way of her being The Bachelorette which was a much better platform for her career objectives than just being a contestant. IMO Brad did love Emily - she didn't care about him and she really didn't want him to pick her.
Jake/Vienna? - Just - well just ...

Ben also said in his people interview that on the day, he wondered if he should just ask Lauren to date instead of get engaged...he said that he wanted to leave with Lauren...wouldn't he be able to leave the experience with Lauren even if they dated?

Possibly he could have / but IMO that was a big risk; he might have been able to leave with her but he might have had a really uphill struggle to keep her.

Ben had this "my world just stopped - WTF is happening" feeling for Lauren. As he learned during filming she had similar feelings for him. I think he had to assess the long term ramifications of the ending on a relationship he wanted to be serious and that he was looking for a long term commitment to by both parties. The show almost always ends with a proposal even if the lead is not looking for anything more than a girl friend; not proposing to Lauren could have been seen as a punch in the gut by Lauren and undermined her beliefs that he was serious about their relationship.

All - JMHO

I think it's easier to look at the successful couples to determine WHY they worked. Outside of SeanCat, they all kind of faded into obscurity and went back to NORMAL life and NORMAL jobs. Also, I legitimately believe that all of the following were in a place in life that they were ready to get married and settle down, and that includes Sean and Cat, who are the anomaly in still trying to seek fame. Also, the biggest factor, they all just got lucky that someone they could actually marry was there. There have been 31 seasons. It's bound to happen once in a while, which it has.

As for why Ben proposed? Producers will do ANYTHING to get that proposal. Juan Pablo is the only one who hasn't proposed since they kind of changed up the format to flipping between Bach/'ette seasons and recycling leads. Plus, Ben is obviously a romantic, and it's obvious he was infatuated with/loved Lauren. I can easily see how it wouldn't take much to get him to propose. So far, I like what I see of Lauren/Ben and think they may have the same qualities that allowed the likes of Ash/JP, Des/Chris, Trista/Ryan, Jason/Molly, and Sean/Cat to survive. They seem to be normal-ish people, not seeking fame, including each other in the others life, and planning a move OUT of LA. But it's early days, so all we can do is sit back and watch the feet.

sosleepy wrote:snip
Also, I legitimately believe that all [of the following] were in a place in life that they were ready to get married and settle down, and that includes Sean and Cat, who are the anomaly in still trying to seek fame. Also, the biggest factor, they all just got lucky that someone they could actually marry was there. There have been 31 seasons. It's bound to happen once in a while, which it has.
snip

^^^ This

Because of the "theme" of this show, all the leads and all the contestants are going to say they are looking for love. If they don't say that or can't say that - they aren't going to make it on the show. But I think if you look at the list of failed relationships and compare it to the list of successful ones you will see the ones that failed are when the lead isn't looking for a relationship and / or their pick wasn't. I think much of the time the lead isn't really looking for a spouse which is why the success rate is pretty dismal. Of course that itsn't terribly different than real life - many people date with no intention of getting married in the near future.

If the lead is not at a point in their lives where they ready for a commitment, then it really doesn't matter who they meet on the show - it's going to be a failed relationship. If they are, and happen to get lucky enough to pick someone who is also ready, then it's probably going to be successful. The couples who have made it are ones where both people are ready and willing to commit, and I think if that's true there can be enough of a spark in "the bubble" to make it out and kindle a nice fire and (maybe) make it through life.

I don't think it matters so much whether you chase fame or mowing lawns and the simple things as long as you share in what you want out of life and that you can (and do) chase a common dream. Or at least compatible dreams if not completely common.

Lucas15 wrote:

I don't think it matters so much whether you chase fame or mowing lawns and the simple things as long as you share in what you want out of life and that you can (and do) chase a common dream. Or at least compatible dreams if not completely common.

True. I think it's *easier* for these couples to make it if they are both on the same page to get out of the limelight, away from scrutiny and back to normal things. But Sean and Cat prove you can bounce from one reality show to the next and still make it- as long as you are on the same page about wanting those things. I just think Trista/Ryan, Des/Chris, Jason/Molly, and Ashley/JP prove its easier to make it the other way, stacks your odds better. But even Sean and Cat who stay in the limelight more than others, seem to live a relatively normal life in Dallas.

Parent Herald.com announced that Ben and Lauren split already because of how he has kept in touch with his ex - girlfriend. They claim he's been cheating on Lauren. Oh my gosh...how far will they go to get people to click on their site?...well, I suppose I did. So, they just won because of me. Damn. Not again.

tennischick80 wrote:Parent Herald.com announced that Ben and Lauren split already because of how he has kept in touch with his ex - girlfriend. They claim he's been cheating on Lauren. Oh my gosh...how far will they go to get people to click on their site?...well, I suppose I did. So, they just won because of me. Damn. Not again.

Lol and they got that article from the inquistr, who along with the breakup rumor runs happy news of the couple on snapchat and with fans. Talk about the ying and the yang.

sosleepy wrote:True. I think it's *easier* for these couples to make it if they are both on the same page to get out of the limelight, away from scrutiny and back to normal things. But Sean and Cat prove you can bounce from one reality show to the next and still make it- as long as you are on the same page about wanting those things. I just think Trista/Ryan, Des/Chris, Jason/Molly, and Ashley/JP prove its easier to make it the other way, stacks your odds better. But even Sean and Cat who stay in the limelight more than others, seem to live a relatively normal life in Dallas.

I don't doubt that it's easier but once you are on this show you are going to get scrutinized no matter what you do or what you stop doing. I once found myself in a position that - unexpectedly - put me in a very public spotlight. Not long afterwards I happened to run across some on-line comments about me that immediately made my blood boil and for about 30 seconds thought just how big of a new a** hole I wanted to ream them. Then I realized that they were people who didn't know me at all, and what they had to say about me didn't define me in anyway whatsoever. About then I started to really laugh at myself - and I still chuckle over the situation if I happen to think about it. You can get past negativity.

Trista & Ryan are (IMO) an example of two fairly different interests when it comes to being in the limelight. Trista seems to have wanted more of it and Ryan wanted more to just be a firefighter in CO. But they somehow found a way to balance things in such a way they seem both happy with the arrangement. I think if you're able to do that it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do - as long as you do it or don't do it together.

Alanna wrote:even Mere/Ian and their crazy chemistry- that couldn't make it work.

Sigh...that one still stings a little. They were incredible together. Saw them in person a few weeks after the finale. Stunning! I may have inadvertently drooled at the sight of Ian, .

I seem to remember that Andrew/Jen really did try. She moved to CA and they were together for awhile. I vividly remember an Oprah show that featured several of the Bachelor couples (Andrew/Jen, Bob/Estella) following Bob's season in late 2003. It was also promoting Trista/Ryan's wedding that was going to air a few weeks later. Since Bob's season ended in November 2003 and Trista was married in December 2003, Andrew/Jen were still together in November (his season finished airing in May 2003). I seem to remember they made the break up official not long after that Oprah show although they claimed to still be a couple that day. Now Bob/Estella.... that's a whole different story. He was flirting with everyone except her at the wedding!

I think a big part of Andrew/Jen was being tied to CA. She was a midwest girl at heart being from the Cleveland area and had found a home in Chicago. Her love for Andrew was just not enough to overcome her love of Chicago.

Her season of Bachelorette didn't surprise me at how it ended. She wasn't going to move away from Chicago... that was her true love at that time.

A story about Trista and Ryan.

Several years ago I met a cousin's son from Colorado at his grandfather's (my uncle) funeral. I chatted quite a bit with Braden and found out he is a firefighter in Loveland, CO. In 2003, he was stationed at a firehouse with some guy named Ryan Sutter that had been on a TV show for a short period of time.

He said that it was quite evident to the other firefighters that Ryan was the guy Trista chose. He was always on the phone, whispering if someone was nearby or hanging up very quickly. He said the guys teased Ryan about it all the time all in good nature and Ryan took it well. Some of the guys that had known Ryan from before the TV show actually saw a change in him... He was quite happy.

All of the guys did have tremendous respect for Ryan. Even Braden said he is a terrific guy and that Trista is very, very lucky and very wise to have fallen for Ryan.