The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

Tiggerlgh wrote:

Miyala wrote:I think they show more "passionkisses" with Ben and Jojo than with him and Lauren to make us believe it could be Joho because of passion. The one between Ben and Lauren on the HD in the whiskey place they never showed us, instead they showed us a conversation on the couch about doubt. I feel they are totally trying to make us doubt them now...

There is almost always some doubt with the F1.

For all girls we see maybe 20 mins of a 12+ hour day.  So we aren't even seeing a fraction of what happens.

JoJo has expressed the most doubt. She has the larger, more dynamic obstacle to overcome, IMO.

But .. In the most recent clip .. She is voicing much more confidence

agentcurls wrote:

Tiggerlgh wrote:

Miyala wrote:I think they show more "passionkisses" with Ben and Jojo than with him and Lauren to make us believe it could be Joho because of passion. The one between Ben and Lauren on the HD in the whiskey place they never showed us, instead they showed us a conversation on the couch about doubt. I feel they are totally trying to make us doubt them now...

There is almost always some doubt with the F1.

For all girls we see maybe 20 mins of a 12+ hour day.  So we aren't even seeing a fraction of what happens.

JoJo has expressed the most doubt. She has the larger, more dynamic obstacle to overcome, IMO.

True, I was just replying to a post about Lauren then, nothing to do with JoJo. Both the F2 have doubt.

No need to try to convince me JoJo could be F1. I have already said I could see it happening.

Jeepers wrote:But .. In the most recent clip .. She is voicing much more confidence

She told Ben she was confident in what they had together. That was the only confidence I saw. In ITMs she (and Ben) were expressing doubt about how her family handled his visit. JoJo expressed her feelings about Ben but I don't think it sounded confident. Not Ben F. sort of confident. By no means do I think she thinks she has his complete heart at that point.

Jeepers wrote:But .. In the most recent clip .. She is voicing much more confidence

Not really..She is concerned about how her family meeting is going to affect her relationship and standing with Ben. Apprehensive is the word I would use for her. Throughout the season, she never once sounded confident. Scared, terrified are the word she's been using throughout the season. She shared her fears with Ben and he found that to be endearing (per his ITM)

I know the filming order of HTD and FD, plus FS size/level of luxury all tip the scales very heavily in Lauren's favor.
However, it's not impossible to me that there was a change of heart during BenJo's FD that could change the outcome. I know it sounds far-fetched, but stranger things have happened. 
Anyway, the what ifs are fun so thank you for humoring me.

IMO tptb used the flowers/letter/phone call with Chad to create vulnerability in JoJo just when Ben was on his way (I don't believe it could possibly be random, because how would Chad know JoJo would be there to receive those perfect red roses if not for tptb)- JoJo would be more open to share with Ben (how could she hide it?) and Ben would be there to be her white knight. TPTB probably needed to do something (anything) to make a bond between them stronger.

There are enough post-show, in the present clues, that point to Lauren and Ben being together for me to rule out JoJo.****IMO***

jcrbil wrote:IMO tptb used the flowers/letter/phone call with Chad to create vulnerability in JoJo just when Ben was on his way (I don't believe it could possibly be random, because how would Chad know JoJo would be there to receive those perfect red roses if not for tptb)- JoJo would be more open to share with Ben (how could she hide it?) and Ben would be there to be her white knight.  TPTB probably needed to do something (anything) to make a bond between them stronger.

That's interesting in itself. I totally get that. Oh, the trickery! But I believe Ben & JoJo already had a nice bond, maybe one not as strong as him and Lauren's up to that point. We'll see what happens with those manipulations.

Jeepers wrote:But .. In the most recent clip .. She is voicing much more confidence

I think we'll have a better feeling after Monday night because it is possible their date starts out with concern and apprehension but by the end, and him saying "ILY" (probably), we'll see her growing more confident. The one thing she said that has stuck with me this whole time is, I won't believe it until he is down on one knee...why would they leave it in there?

If we see Lauren being overconfident, then they are setting her up for a fall... hopefully she is just as realistic as Jojo. Along this "journey", we've heard her say, "It's terrifying...why would you want me when there are all these other girls...like she doesn't know how awesome she is..." I think what her dad said on HTD will resonate with her (there are others beside you left) going into her FD and she'll come down from the clouds. I actually hope of the ILY's is to Jojo because that will set the girls on even playing fields (sort of) as we go into the Finale. If they only show Ben saying "ILY" to Lauren and not to Jojo...eeek...then everyone gets blindsided and many people will be confused. Maybe Lauren will think she's the only one he told that/feels that for when really he also loves Jojo.

3/4 Mesnick (Harrison has said it's crying, but what if its more...?) may be that we don't even get to see him say ILY to Jojo until the end and he chooses her *like we all thought he was choosing Melissa, but then he had a change of heart... maybe he thought he was choosing Lauren then he had a change of heart. It's possible.

nooooo i would hate for that to happen. For once I'm going to believe the spoilers and what i have seen on tv and that is that he chose lauren and they are happy.

agentcurls wrote:

Jeepers wrote:But .. In the most recent clip .. She is voicing much more confidence

She told Ben she was confident in what they had together. That was the only confidence I saw. In ITMs she (and Ben) were expressing doubt about how her family handled his visit. JoJo expressed her feelings about Ben but I don't think it sounded confident. Not Ben F. sort of confident. By no means do I think she thinks she has his complete heart at that point.

Different clip