The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

This was a pretty good episode. What are we up to? Episode 6? The Bahamas episode. Also swimming pigs!

Those of us thinking the Ben/Lauren Bee relationship was too obvious and dull finally got the "obstacle" we have been waiting for.

Even though Lauren is the sweetest "softie" in Ben's harem, jealous Leah planted the "Seed of Doubt" by telling Ben that Lauren is "a different person in the house than she is with him". Of course, this is hogwash (cue pigs on the group date and Leah saying she only eats them) and you can see that Ben wasn't buying it, which is why he dumped Leah.

Yet this is what we need, story-wise, for either of these scenarios...

1.) Lauren must "prove" herself to him just as other F1s of the past, since Ben is typically indecisive up to the very end. (Usually with the Bachelorettes, the leads are paranoid that their F1 will leave them. Here, he is not sure if he is getting the real Lauren.)
2.) He starts thinking Jo-Jo might be the better alternative even though he is not in love with her and temporarily dumps Lauren at F2, but... like Jason Mesnick... sobs about making a mistake and, as a result, must say goodbye to Jo-Jo too... and retrieves Lauren before she leaves. (Think Ames chasing after whatshername in a season of Bachelor Pad even though they later broke up.) Jason waited until After the Final Rose to make his switch, but it doesn't seem like that scenario in the previews. Instead it happens within an hour's time in the finale show. This will be our (in Harrison's words) THE Finale That You Never Saw Coming. Since they have been pumping up Jason's season in retrospective flashbacks in all of the previous Harrison After Parties (even having Jason and Ben seated together in a wedding show upcoming), it would not surprise me in the least.

Now... IF... scenario 2 is what happens, I will suspect that Ben, Lauren and even Jo-Jo may have been a bit "on to the deception". My tongue will stay in my cheek as I watch them all go through their emotional roller boo-hoos. Each season seems to get more scripted than the last and... let's be honest here... there has been a LOT of recycled dialogue this season.

The rest of the episode...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What was going on in Caila's date aside from the two slaughtering innocent fish? Oh yes. She tells us "I can beat the crap out of Ben". He, in turn, looked sssssooooo sleepy when she told him she was falling in love but would break his heart. Huh?!? Well... at least HE said "It is almost attractive that Caila is so confusing."

Then the Emily vs. Olivia date...
Was Olivia high on LSD when she kept saying she and Ben were visiting her folks on hometown and later bending down on one knee? They sure had a lot of sobbing on the soundtrack but so many of Olivia's rejection scenes had her shot at a distance. Perhaps she was in a state of shock or something, thus not crying on cue.

Regarding the montage previews...

Actually the one shown mid-season after episode 6 or 7 (varies season after season) tends to be more accurate than the ones shown in episode 1 and in "coming ups"... and the finale promos after Women Tell All / Men Tell All. Maybe it is because "they" think we don't take anything mid-season as seriously as we do at other times.

One confusing one... well, not really... was Sean Lowe's on account of The Letter he received from Chris Harrison at FRC that suggested he might get jilted. I think his comments about "I can't believe she would do this" (or whatever) probably involved his F3 AshLee being upset at him (as she was on Bachelor In Paradise when Graham dumped her) and "frankenbyted" into that scene. It was a voice-over after all. Yet even the letter by Catherine probably took him by surprise as well, even though it wasn't what so many viewers expected..

One interesting shot in Desie's mid-season promo showed Chris Siegfried standing at a rose ceremony and she stating she's sorry... and she did apologize to him about fussing too much on Brooks. (Granted, I doubt she as "blinded" by her love for him as she said. Yet she had a lot of insecurities and trust issues to deal with before accepting Chris and these needed "worked out" with safe-and-caring, if not in love with her, Brooks.) Chris is heard on the soundtrack that he is unsure of what would happen as we see a hand holding a ring... and that played out accordingly.

Others tended to be more straightforward. Emily sobbed in hers about being in love with more than one person and not wanting to hurt anybody (cue shot of the dolphin squeaky-laughing at her and Arie in the water). Ashley Hebert's ended with her crying at FRC over the hurtful things "he said"; this being Ben Flajnik whose anger at FRC was mostly edited out because he was selected as the next Bachelor. Likewise, Juan Pablo certainly didn't look like a happy camper... in a scene later revealed after Clare Bear chewed him out.

On another thread, posters were suggesting that Ben is calling a family member to tell them how happy he is. I can accept that scenario. The only issue here is that they are quite clear that Ben makes SOME kind of mistake late in the game involving a PERSON. So... yeah... scenario No. 2 above may actually happen, even it may be confusing to us. Remember that this guy can not even decide whether to have breakfast or lunch at McDonald's, let alone a woman.

I also have the feeling... if scenario 2 actually does happen... that the abc media net will post FRC photos, complete with"time stamps" (which we sleuthers here LOVE) showing the girl he chooses arriving first and the one he doesn't end up with second. Yet we have our "gotcha!" with a repeat of not just Jason's season, but also Jesse Palmer's (when the F2 reject arrived second). Oh you just know their "spies" will enjoy reading the screencap thread the week leading to the finale.

OK... ha ha! Dusting off a few mid-season promos here.

I guess Desie's was a little different than I described it above. However... all you need to do is single out the shots with Chris Siegfried and they are all "happy" pictures with Desie literally "glowing" (like in the helicopter scene) up until his "frustrated look" in the limo and her sobbing as he stands at the rose ceremony with off camera Drew.



Here's Sean's... again, I can not always remember these...

Catherine: "My beliefs are shattered about what he wants" Huh??? Well... sometimes love can be a hectic journey... even, as AshLee suggests, "she's that manipulative". (Takes one to know one, Yee Jealous One.)

Wow those are some crazy predictions. I for one am going to believe reality Steve and say that there is no crazy finale and that he picks Lauren like he always planned on and there was no switching around.

None of us are predicting anything. We are just speculating various scenarios.

Note that I keep saying... "IF"... ha ha!

Yeah, it could be a very predictable ending. I'm certainly not holding my breath for any "surprises"... but who knows? Harrison INSISTS on something we have never seen before on this show. I guess he means Ben's eye brows. Yeah, that is a unique feature, unlike Tierra's on Sean's season. Cute how we get the tweet of Ben and Lauren as Cinderella and Prince Charming right on cue. Why we would not see that coming?

I just watched the previews you posted JBF. Wow, I forgot about all that drama with Sean and Des's seasons. They were two of my favorite seasons. Its hard to know which of your scenarios will play out. My guess is that he will pick Lauren and the preview is spliced and diced as so many others have said. The drama from Sean and Des's seasons just isn't in any previews yet. So true that Ben can't decide about breakfast or lunch...that commercial was real foreshadowing. Good recap JBF.

I think the thing that has never occurred is telling two women he loves them prior to the FRC. I think he is upset letting JoJo go but nothing really crazy occurs other than the two I love you and some Mesnick like crying. I think it's a fairly normal FRC with Jojo blindsided and Lauren F1. (I do see how ots possible the F2 order is flipped, but he sticks with his decision whatever it is.)

It will be interesting for me to see if JoJo really is blindsided vs acting she is blindsided.

Kashathediva wrote:It will be interesting for me to see if JoJo really is blindsided vs acting she is blindsided.

My vote is on acting.

Someone (maybe in a different thread) said on Monday that the Monday night episode would be the pivotal episode for Ben.  How right they were.  

Leah not only planted the seed of doubt in Ben's mind, but also in the minds of the viewing audience.  We had the tweet plastered up on the screen about Ben and LaurenB being just like Prince Charming and Cinderella.  We have Leah telling us that she needs to take down the one with the strongest connection to Ben....LaurenB.  We have Leah telling Ben how he might be misjudging the person that he has the strongest connection with ....LaurenB.  We have LaurenB telling her friends in the house that Leah is trying to destroy what she and Ben have.  Her friends are acknowledging the LaurenB + Ben connection.  A little bit too much LaurenB is the one for it to be straightforward at this point.  But Leah plants that seed of doubt and LaurenB and JoJo both have meltdowns because they just don't know where Ben's head is now, setting up the big showdown and Ben's continued confusion.  They had to put that in just so the viewers will get it that Ben is confused and doesn't know who to choose in the end.  

Ben is not the first Bachelor or the first lead to tell two that he loves them.  Andy Baldwin whispered to Bevin that he loved her on their LCD.  He caught a lot of flack about that and defended it by saying there was a difference between loving someone and being "in love" with them.  So that isn't the thing that happens for the first time in Bachelor history.  Every single lead starts off the Neal Lane segment with they are in love with two people and don't know what they're going to do.  I do think that everything is there for letting his true F1 go and immediately regretting it, just as JBF has mentioned previously.  The phone call is probably to his Mom.  I don't think they would give us a phone proposal.

If this scenario or similar plays out, we will still see the beautiful proposal and the happily ever after.  There won't be the fall out that Jason and Molly went through because Ben doesn't propose to someone else and then break up with them on national TV.

I also have this sneaking suspicion that something else goes down.  Is there SC evidence of 3 FD's?   Maybe he lets everyone but the F2 go after HTD'S????

Best line of the night, from JoJo....This is just like a bar in Dallas, there are pigs everywhere.

moonchild wrote:Someone (maybe in a different thread) said on Monday that the Monday night episode would be the pivotal episode for Ben.  How right they were.  

Leah not only planted the seed of doubt in Ben's mind, but also in the minds of the viewing audience.  We had the tweet plastered up on the screen about Ben and LaurenB being just like Prince Charming and Cinderella.  We have Leah telling us that she needs to take down the one with the strongest connection to Ben....LaurenB.  We have Leah telling Ben how he might be misjudging the person that he has the strongest connection with ....LaurenB.  We have LaurenB telling her friends in the house that Leah is trying to destroy what she and Ben have.  Her friends are acknowledging the LaurenB + Ben connection.  A little bit too much LaurenB is the one for it to be straightforward at this point.  But Leah plants that seed of doubt and LaurenB and JoJo both have meltdowns because they just don't know where Ben's head is now, setting up the big showdown and Ben's continued confusion.  They had to put that in just so the viewers will get it that Ben is confused and doesn't know who to choose in the end.  

Ben is not the first Bachelor or the first lead to tell two that he loves them.  Andy Baldwin whispered to Bevin that he loved her on their LCD.  He caught a lot of flack about that and defended it by saying there was a difference between loving someone and being "in love" with them.  So that isn't the thing that happens for the first time in Bachelor history.  Every single lead starts off the Neal Lane segment with they are in love with two people and don't know what they're going to do.  I do think that everything is there for letting his true F1 go and immediately regretting it, just as JBF has mentioned previously.  The phone call is probably to his Mom.  I don't think they would give us a phone proposal.

If this scenario or similar plays out, we will still see the beautiful proposal and the happily ever after.  There won't be the fall out that Jason and Molly went through because Ben doesn't propose to someone else and then break up with them on national TV.

I also have this sneaking suspicion that something else goes down.  Is there SC evidence of 3 FD's?   Maybe he lets everyone but the F2 go after HTD'S????

Re the bold, is that your opinion or do you know all that for a fact? If so please provide how you know the info. TYIA

GuardianAngel wrote:

moonchild wrote:Someone (maybe in a different thread) said on Monday that the Monday night episode would be the pivotal episode for Ben.  How right they were.  

Leah not only planted the seed of doubt in Ben's mind, but also in the minds of the viewing audience.  We had the tweet plastered up on the screen about Ben and LaurenB being just like Prince Charming and Cinderella.  We have Leah telling us that she needs to take down the one with the strongest connection to Ben....LaurenB.  We have Leah telling Ben how he might be misjudging the person that he has the strongest connection with ....LaurenB.  We have LaurenB telling her friends in the house that Leah is trying to destroy what she and Ben have.  Her friends are acknowledging the LaurenB + Ben connection.  A little bit too much LaurenB is the one for it to be straightforward at this point.  But Leah plants that seed of doubt and LaurenB and JoJo both have meltdowns because they just don't know where Ben's head is now, setting up the big showdown and Ben's continued confusion.  They had to put that in just so the viewers will get it that Ben is confused and doesn't know who to choose in the end.  

Ben is not the first Bachelor or the first lead to tell two that he loves them.  Andy Baldwin whispered to Bevin that he loved her on their LCD.  He caught a lot of flack about that and defended it by saying there was a difference between loving someone and being "in love" with them.  So that isn't the thing that happens for the first time in Bachelor history.  Every single lead starts off the Neal Lane segment with they are in love with two people and don't know what they're going to do.  I do think that everything is there for letting his true F1 go and immediately regretting it, just as JBF has mentioned previously.  The phone call is probably to his Mom.  I don't think they would give us a phone proposal.

If this scenario or similar plays out, we will still see the beautiful proposal and the happily ever after.  There won't be the fall out that Jason and Molly went through because Ben doesn't propose to someone else and then break up with them on national TV.

I also have this sneaking suspicion that something else goes down.  Is there SC evidence of 3 FD's?   Maybe he lets everyone but the F2 go after HTD'S????

Re the bold, is that your opinion or do you know all that for a fact? If so please provide how you know the info. TYIA

This is just my opinion. Sorry for not stating that previously.