The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

eversotrue wrote:Fleiss said this was his favorite season since Jason...and Ben asked Jason about his switcharoo in the premiere last night.. Is this a hidden something something??

That's just Fleiss being Fleiss.
I think this season is going to be straightforward.

AllAboutLove wrote:

eversotrue wrote:Fleiss said this was his favorite season since Jason...and Ben asked Jason about his switcharoo in the premiere last night.. Is this a hidden something something??

That's just Fleiss being Fleiss.
I think this season is going to be straightforward.

Probably. But then it got me thinking how at towards the end of the preview, Ben was crying saying, "I'm in love with two women here. And I have to say goodbye to a woman who doesn't deserve it. I was confused. I'm not trying to run away. This was just a lot harder than I thought it was going to get."

They all say they are in love with 2/3/4 women. It's the show and the bubble and all that. I doubt there is a Mesnick at all here of any sorts.

As for that voice over (VO)?

That's all spliced and diced and not a sentence he said from what I can hear. With VOs they can be interpreted any which way unless one sees the person actually saying the words. So I expect Ben to say those words at different times throughout the season and just spliced together for the preview. And we may never hear those words at all either. It happens a lot with VOs and SCs for previews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrLyPeNVAqw

This is so cute

Diana wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrLyPeNVAqw

This is so cute

He was literally trying to clench in jaw.

eversotrue wrote:
Ben was born 1989, not 1988. He will be 27 on March 23rd.

Somebody goofed online... ha ha!

If born in 1989...

Sun 3° Aries
Moon Libra
Mercury 22° Pisces
Venus 0° Aries
Mars 7° Gemini
Jupiter 2° Gemini
Saturn 13° Capricorn
Uranus 5° Capricorn
Neptune 12° Capricorn
Pluto 14° Я Scorpio
Chiron 1° Cancer
Node 4° Я Pisces

ZZZZZZzzzzzz

I... uh... am struggling this season. Well... to be perfectly honest, a lot is happening in my life and I can't stay committed like past seasons. I do wish there was more of a hook for me.

I know... I know... "Ben is the best catch in the freakin' world."

Oh yes. That was Olivia saying that. Olivia is, of course, the front runner and probably the most entertaining character in this season's prime time soap. Ben isn't quite hooking me in, despite looking like a very nice guy. I dunno... the problem is definitely with me, not him.

Chris Soules has been on both shows... well, the after show last night... and he reminds me a lot of Brad Womack. He may be a failure as far as the Whole Purpose Of The Show, but he definitely has screen "sincerity" and that certain... something. Both guys are VERY easy to read in their body language and mannerisms. When Chris dumped Britt after her "drama" and bizarrely dumped Kaitlyn (either because "they" wanted her as Bachelorette or because he saw the post-show "picture" and realized chemistry wasn't enough), I could sense he was headed for disaster with the remaining two. He was doing all of the work in his relationship with Becca... a.k.a. Brad/Emily Maynard... and Whitney was doing all of the work with a unmotivated Chris... a.k.a. Brad/Chantal. Only difference is that he chose his F2 as his F1, yet both relationships were equally one-sided. Like Chantal, Whitney was another go-getter who technically didn't need the Bachelor anyway to "find love". Whitney's declared issue was that "boys just don't want to settle own", but her real motto is "if you don't succeed, try try again"... so she is trying again with somebody else. Becca, of course, is going back to the show.

I did not like The Whole Point of the two group dates because they pounded in the reasons why Ben is not raising my mojo this season.

Group Date Number One: "Let's LEARN how to love"

Oh... that line is sssssoooooooo wrong on so many levels. Ben is NOT like either Brad or Chris. He is not "jumping in" and willing to crash. He has to do this so methodically like it is a test. This attitude does not give me much confidence that he and his F1 lady last since we now know the whole theme of his journey is "Did I learn anything from this experience?"

Of course, this date is a fun date for him because High School was his "happy time". High School may not have been a "happy time" for all of us viewers, but this kid comes straight out of the Eisenhower Era... (or at least when Lyndon Johnson was president going by the vintage Mustangs and Chevys used this season) and the first gal he dated either sported a poodle skirt and pony tail or was sexy-but-innocent like Ann-Margret in BYE BYE BIRDIE ("what do my eyes tell you, Huuuugo...?"). Also he was likely The Cool Kid who had no trouble making home coming court, so the lucky winner on this date gets to recreate his fond memories for him.

In addition, Kaitlyn last season started to notice him when he taught the birds and the bees in front of some professional actors... oops!... I mean elementary school children in a school setting. If putting him in a school worked once before as a way to get the ladies hot for him, do it again.

The ladies are trying their best to entertain me even if Ben isn't. I was embarrassed for Becca's lack of skill in geography, although Ben saying he only wants the gals to recognize Indiana... not Indonesia... makes me think even HE is not quite sure where Indonesia is, but is content that he isn't the one being tested... and, well, The Cool Kid still always graduates regardless... along with The Dork who sported the higher grade average but didn't-get-the-girl. It also amused me that Jennifer, who talked "morals" last week wasted no time kissing him just as Lace did aggressively last week... although Lace herself is all deflated and exhausted this episode, fussing about "no eye contact" and so forth. Jubilee tries to con him with the "I was a foundling waif" back-story and he does his best to pretend to be interested.

The lab scenes... set in the room where I am sure Ben spent the LEAST amount of time (in comparison to the gym and behind the stadium)... were what "made" the date, entertainment-wise. Just the very thought of the ladies each trying to make Ben's volcano "explode" was sssssoooooo Freudian in oh-so-many ways. I can't help but think the producers WERE thinking of lil' ol' me when they concocted that, just to see how I would comment. (Think Jillian's season and the clever Hawaiian "insert" in Ed's "if you don't succeed, try try again" last chance date.) In any case... at some point on this date (can't remember when since I dozed off during parts of it)... Jo-Jo jo-jo-ed his volcano to explode and got the rose this date.

The second date with Ice Cube, Kevin Hart and groomed-to-be-a-potential Bachelorette Caila playing "the female love interest" was... OK. It still felt recycled. Aha! That's it! This whole season is too-too recycled and I can't blame Ben for that since the producers are telling him what to do and say all of the time. So many past first dates wind up in a hot tub. He was happy to hear his Favorite Song Of All Time when he danced, but I was a little concerned that he was more "into" the music than Caila, even though there is more overall "heat" (if low degree level) than there is between Benny and other contestants.

Speaking of heat, we had plenty of "heat monitors" in action on the second group date. Group Date Number Two was ssssooooo wrong on so many levels that I don't know where to begin. Ben wasted a lot of time with Jason, Chris and Sean getting "help" because that is what he seeks all of the time. Now he needs "experts" to analyze The Chemistry in a different way than the Chemistry Lab's Volcano. They dress up in lab coats and I am desperately hoping that Muppet Beaker ("wa-ba-ba-ba-wah") will show up in this lab "where the future is being made today". The date card read "Are we a PERFECT match?" Soooo... we are seeking perfection now so that Ben can be accused of not making the PERFECT decision?

I am just not seeing "IT" between Ben and Olivia regardless of how "spectacular the results are". Yet she IS entertaining to watch. I will give her that. "The odor is good between us."

And... right on cue... Olivia understands that getting two roses without a rose ceremony guarantees her to be the troublemaker interrupting Leah's cocktail sitdown later. That last 15 minutes of the pre-Mister Harrison Talkfest show was chocked full of so much recycled dialogue that I swear the ladies... and Ben... must have been reading cue cards off camera. Amusingly Caila had said on her date that her favorite color was yellow so both Lauren Bee and I-forgot-who-was-shown-right-after-her-with-Ben both sported a LOT of yellow on. Lauren B. had a "nice" sitdown where he did something "special" involving a picture. Then they gave us the beret-making gag with Amanda who, like, has a lot of kids like,  well at least two, like...  to make viewers forget Lauren and think SHE is the frontrunner... only to give us a "gotcha" later.

Yet I am not seeing a very motivated Ben here. Hopefully the season picks up steam later. I would at least like to see Ben cry... or something. Amusingly... when I logged on here and saw which were the "recently most active" threads, they mostly involved past contestants like yet another another Chris, Tanner/Jade and so forth... not so much THIS season. Guess we are all kinda distracted from Ben.

Ha ha!... like the Ben versus Sean Test in group date Number Two... with many "dots" popping on the wrong Bachelor.

Episode 3 media package is out!

http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/shows/the-bachelor/episodes/2003/

Admins, if one of you could create the thread for Ep3 I will be happy to bring over the press release (no pics or videos yet)

Sorry I haven't been too sociable this season. Yet I did watch last night's show...

It was rather interesting, more so than the previous two.

Three themes were stressed...
1.) the color yellow
2.) airplanes
3.) death

Yellow (a color often associated with fear) was Caila's favorite color last week... and Lauren Bee sported plenty of it later that episode (reminding me of previous Bachelorette Ali and her obsession with yellow). On Lauren's date, she flew in a VERY yellow plane... and Caila's PI sessions interrupted her date with sobs amid yellow candles. Caila doesn't sound quite as genuine in her affections though, like Lauren does in her very humble way. Also later when Jubilee was shown sobbing in a PI session, it was more along the lines of "I'm not his TYPE". (More on that below with something Lauren... Lauren H., not Lauren Bee... said.)

Ben looks more comfortable with Lauren and Jubilee than he does with the others. Also Ben likes mysteries. Regarding Lauren, "she is a mystery to me"... and Jubilee certainly had him hooked as more details of her dark past came forward. We are getting quite a back-story with Jubilee, suggesting prime Bachelorette potential if she's not the one.

Both Lauren B. and Jubilee get to fly on their dates, even if Jubilee gets the helicopter instead of the plane. Both are fearful even though Lauren works for an airline. She is nervous in a smaller plane. Jubilee is just fearful of heights.

Then Ben loses two friends in a plane... if I got that story straight. This was the day after Jubilee's date and her discussion of the deaths in her family which made her an orphan.

Ben also earlier discussed with Lauren how much stronger his parents' relationship seemed when his dad had serious surgery and his mother thought she would lose him.

Interesting wording on the card dates... although I tend to read too much in them.
Lauren's card read "the sky's the limit", which sounded a bit like an ad for American Airlines.
Jubilee's card read "love is in the air"... which seemed a bit more forward than I expected since Jubilee doesn't SEEM like a frontrunner. Then again, she could still be... the... one, if not the future 'ette.

No, I am not aware of all of the spoilers and who leaves when exactly.

Interesting "gotcha-maybe" here...

Ben stated on Lauren's date that this could be the first date with his future wife. However, many times we hear this with a future reject... like The Princess of the Raccoons in Juan Pablo's season and Brooks with Desiree... and even Ben F. on Ashley's season (although he said "first date with my fiancé"). He also said that he is not the type to just "jump in too quickly"... a line that could go in either direction...
a.) he may pick Lauren in the end (and remember that she was the one who, in episode one, said "hashtag Mrs. Higgins"... much as Olivia talks that same kind of talk), but will require more time to get to know her first post-show. OR...
b.) maybe he views her as THE frontrunner NOW... but somebody else "grows" on him. One curious "final two-ish" feel about his relationship with Lauren harks back to previous seasons such as Trista's Bachlorette 1, when she kept repeating over and over that "the moment Charlie stepped out of the limo... la dee dah... he had that look, etc." and then she shocked All Of America by choosing Ryan Sutter the shy firefighter from Vail. Twice Ben has bragged about this instant connection he has with Lauren straight out of the limo. This makes us ask if this season will resemble Kaitlyn's or Trista's. The most recent Bachelorette obviously was "struck" by Shawn's lightning bolt and all giggly, even if the whole Nick business threw a temporary monkey wrench into their love story.

Body language-wise, it is a tough call to determine which hot-tub date had more chemistry, except both are definitely ABOVE Caila's last week "shared" by a dude. He looks most... comfortable... with Lauren (again, hinting something like his parents who were discussed a lot on their date), but is more protective of Jubilee... especially when Amber visited them later. He also made sure the lady investigators knew he really enjoyed his massage so they wouldn't judge her too harshly. Now... one could debate if "protectiveness" really equates to affection here. Would Ben feel differently about her had she not told him more of her backstory?

Olivia, Olivia Olivia...

A little of her goes a long, long way. Nonetheless I loved watching her squirm for the first time at the rose ceremony when called last. "Tonight was awkward, but I want to marry Ben Higgins". When Lauren was on her date, Olivia called her the "love bug", but she herself "has the eye on the prize". This is the third line I recall that Olivia has "recycled" from Ben Flajik's beloved Courtney and I am not sure what is up with the writers this season.

The group date playing soccer (a.k.a. "love is the goal" on this date) was uneventful apart from Rachel injuring herself. Oh... and Ben starting it off by saying "I want to see how the gals all interact with each other". Is that your REAL fetish, Ben?

Yet Olivia, on the winning team that got more time with him, made it comical. The fact that Wallflower Amber got the rose suggests that Olivia doesn't have as much "mystery" for him as the shy ones.

Speaking of Amber, it is good to see ONE of the two second-comers get screen time. Becca, where were you? Oh yes, you were among the snoopers investigating Ben's massage by Jubilee. You can be just as frisky as the other felines in the mansion. After so much catty-ness this episode (over Olivia's feet, Jubilee being mistaken for unappreciative of her date and what's-up-with-Lace), it was the Final Joke that Jami gets rejected at the rose ceremony and says she is sticking with real cats for company.

I think the whole "point" of Olivia is to emphasize the problem too many ladies on this show face. When Lace decided to leave, she said "I must love myself before I love somebody else" (paraphrasing here). Although Olivia definitely loves herself, much of her talk about Ben echoes the sobbing ladies all thinking they have more of a connection with Ben than they think... and acting ssssoooooo needy. They are also a bit fussy about appearances. Although Olivia had no problem with the ladies saying her feet look ugly (and the camera did more "feet shots" this episode than usual), even she just HAD to ask Ben about her... legs.

Lauren H. was somebody in episode 1 whom I thought could be a frontrunner. This episode, she came off as a... little... shallow, saying Jubilee wasn't the type who would mix well with "soccer moms". It is clear that Ben is not quite the conservative boy they all assume he is. Yet she was called first at the ceremony.

After show with Harrison was a bit zzzzzzz.

Although I do like Lace. She sports the Swinging Sixties styles (false eyelashes included) quite well.

When googling stuff on Benny Boy, I was spoiled about the outcome (not hard to do since the F1 is posted all over online)... and I can "see" that ending. I am not against it. Yet her edit is... confusing me a bit. For one thing, I was not fond of her date card "the sky's the limit". Then again, Whitney last year got the line of "stop w(h)ining" on hers.

The only top 4 frontrunners I know about are the ones Jimmy Kimmel mentioned... which may or may not all be the correct top 4:
-Caila... whose date was similar to Lauren's with a hot-tub and an evening dance, but was clearly NOT on the same level. He seemed more "into" the music playing than Caila dancing with him. In contrast, he was more focused on Lauren during their dance later.
-Olivia... everything she says is "canned" from previous seasons. We all know why she is on this show. The ladies need somebody to chew out on the Women Tell Nothing show. Kimmel thinks she leaves at F3, which usually is aired after F3 leaves anyway... so she can be in Harrison's hot seat.
-Jo-Jo... who has pretty much acted as Just Another Narrator and Local Shrink to the ladies' sob stories, but Jimmy surprisingly chose her as Ben's pick.
-Lauren... whom Jimmy considered an alternative with Jo-Jo.

Lauren is a sweetheart. If the finalist, few would complain of his choice. Watching their date a second time, I did notice them kissing more than I have seen Ben with others. There was the cute piggyback ride that looked like something you would see with The Happy Couple "catchup" segment in a later season. Yes... the two can pass for a couple who have known each other for a while. He may be completely relaxed with her since she probably resembles girls he has dated in the past... or family members he is most comfortable with. She is certainly the one you would EXPECT him to choose.

There are a few things about her EDIT (not her as a person obviously) that still bug me though, even if she is the "winner".

I was put off with his mentioning her as a potential wife before anybody else... a comment that traditionally ruled somebody out as a finalist in past seasons if not... perhaps... this one. Also I thought her saying "Hashtag Mrs. Higgins" in the premiere show was too much like Olivia talking the same talk.

Another curiosity that I am scratching my head over...

When Ben mentioned the two friends of his family getting killed in a plane crash, I fully expected her to be showcased sympathetically listening to him because she works with planes and had a plane on her date... and she was even a little frightened of that particular small stunt-plane despite all of her airborne experience. However she was shown hiding behind somebody else. It was Jubilee, not her, who comforted Ben. Now... it is NOT a requirement of the F1 to "aid" the lead during times of "concern", but they should at least give us some sort of a reaction shot. The first major shot of Lauren during cocktail hour is when she is listening to the others chit-chat about Jubilee as if that was more important to her (not that it was in reality). It makes me wonder if the editors simply don't care at all about the Ben/Lauren relationship... for whatever reason. Maybe she's not the one or he picks nobody?

Jubilee was the star attraction this last episode and my initial thought was that Fleiss wants to counter all of the criticism of his "mostly white" show with a "darker-toned" lead. She certainly has the rags-to-riches back-story to build up on so she can be next season's Cinderella. However, there are a couple of things that make her edit baffling to me...

They made sure we saw how excited and nervous she was on her date and only a few girls actually attacked her for her joke about giving up the date for somebody else. We were later given a PI session regarding her fear of heights (helicopter), which prompted that joke. Later Amber called her out and she sobbed in response, so it is not like TV viewers see her as ungrateful... just another victim of the Catty House. Also the editors repeated voice-overs to make the hostility towards her seem like it was more of a big deal than it was.

Intriguingly, my sense of "why" Amber confronted her later was so that Ben could defend her... as he always does. This is like the earlier scene when Jami is among those interrupting his massage session with Jubilee and he says loud enough for the interrupters to hear: "that's, like, my favorite thing in the world". Ouch! Guess that was his way of giving the other ladies "the finger" for their behavior?

By the way, what was The Big Deal about Jubilee giving him a massage... WITH THEIR CLOTHES ON? Of course, there was the usual fuss of "she already has a rose", but that hasn't stopped contestants from doing "things" with the lead during cocktail hour and NOBODY caring about it before. It was as if the handlers were "testing" him in a peculiar way. I think Harrison said in an Entertainment Weekly interview, the only one I recall reading pre-show, that Ben was a bit slow in the process at first... making me wonder if things happened slowly with his finalist rather than "out of the limo"... and twice already he has spoken how Lauren impressed him out of the limo.

I re-watched both the Lauren and Jubilee dates with the sound off. There a lot of lop & chop in that second date at the spa. Not sure what the editors were hiding. The first part... at the food buffet with the caviar... had the two as far as part as two stricken-with-the-plague victims could be. Jubilee reminds me of a gopher tortoise keeping hidden under her shell and Benny constantly coaxing her head out. As I mentioned in the last post, he seems very protective of her in ways he is not with the others, maybe TOO protective.

Since she is not in Kimmels' Top 4, I am assuming Jubilee leaves before hometowns... or is dumped. I have the feeling it is the former not the latter because he seems at least as equally invested in her as Lauren. No, I will not write Lauren off as merely a "default" choice to compensate for the one-that-got-away. Yet the editors are so much more concerned with Jubilee's story than Lauren's. Even if Jubilee is out of the picture by hometowns, she is still... as of now... the most important contestant this season while Lauren is just-one-of-the-girls.

One interesting pattern of sorts this last episode had Caila paralleling Lauren and Amber paralleling Jubilee. For example, Caila is sobbing with... I think... Jo-Jo (the Bachelor Mansion Shrink) about possibly "my heart being broken" shorty after Lauren discusses being "scared of getting hurt and having to protect myself". (I dunno... maybe I am just getting tired of ALL of the contestants saying this when you know they can't ALL be heart-broken on this dopey show.) Then Jubilee is also using Jo-Jo as her sounding board about her feelings for Ben, but "everybody has a type and it is not me" (a.k.a. how could he possibly be interested in me?) and also being too shy to "stand out". (Echoes of Catherine Lowe... ooooh boy... almost a repeat of her edit, in fact.) Later... on the group date that she is not a part of, Amber (the same one who later bugs Jubilee with Ben at cocktail hour) talks the EXACT same kind of talk, but he gives her the group-date rose instead of extroverted Queen Olivia. Later... the other Lauren (schoolteacher Lauren) criticizes Jubilee for not being the "soccer mom" type best suited for Ben, re-emphasizing her concern "everybody has a type".

Ooof... this is another confusing edit for me. Again, the frontrunner is supposedly (if Kimmels' picks and shots in the previews suggest) gone pre-hometowns. Do we have any clips of hometowns or fantasy dates in the previews yet? Does anybody boomerang back? Of course, every time I think there is a twist... there isn't.

I believe he feels very protective over Jubilee and he likes her a lot. I however don't see the same emotions as with Lauren. His body language is very different (my own opinion after watching the dates 1000 times). For example, almost every time after he kisses Lauren he keeps looking at her. With a lot of the others (including Jubilee) he looks away right after. He also often (not in the bath tub though) is the one leaning in for the kisses with Lauren and with most other girls its the opposite. Also with Lauren he seems so full of emotion that he looks sleepy ;). It was also cute how silly he felt about giving Lauren the rose (the reason I believe was that with her it felt so natural that the whole rose-thing, game-thing felt strange and silly)...

I believe Ben is intrigued with Lauren, I see him looking at her wondering where he stands with her. She's given him enough to show that she's interested, but not so much that he doesnt know he has to keep on working to see and learn more about her. This is what I've seen of them so far.