Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #2

[noobsleuth]

This really seems a throwback in my eyes... i thought we as women had come further than that.

TBH I've actually ALWAYS thought it made more sense for the Bachette to do the proposing. Where is it written any more that the man is the only one who can take the risk? Perhaps that is why I may seem so stubborn about my disappointment w/ ashley. I truly believe it becomes all about "the girl" getting "her" proposal.... The lead has to endure the rollercoaster, but in my eyes has far more power in this situation than her bachelors. Perhaps the rose should precede the ring....?

(But then, of course, if I were the Bette, I'd prolly telll my guy I'd love him to surprise me down the road with his own un-pressured proposal....)

that's just me, I realize.

This made think of that scene from Friends when Monica proposed to Chandler and half way through she broke down crying and said, "there's a reason why women don't do this." and couldn't finish. LOL

Maybe because the men pick out the rings is why they still have them do it. You know the whole get down on a knee while showing the ring. I don't know how that would work with the lead (woman) doing that. Doesn't mean it can't of course. But I do agree that the lead should always speak first and kind of give the "green light" to propose. This is where Ash messed up and I think she knows that. When I mentioned to DH what happened regarding the two proposals he replies, "yeah, like that was her idea". Always the conspiracy theorist... he also thinks RS is employed by ABC. LOL

[tigertiz]

What she failed to grasp is that the reason Ash's demeanor with JP was serious was because this was the man she expected to marry that she was introducing to her family; it was a serious moment, the only moment that mattered. She could afford to be light hearted with Brad and Ben, she wasn't really invested in either of them, so the opinions of her family were almost of no consequence when it got down to it. IOW, it was easy for Ash to act relaxed and herself with the two guys she had nothing to lose with. With the one guy in whose presence she acted nervous, however, it was because she had everything to lose.

Wow. Thank you for this insight. I think you nailed it.

[rc49ers]

Deanna said that she knew Her family would like Jason , but was worried that they wouldn/t like Jesse because of his long hair , and Ali said she wsn't worried about Chris L . she knew her family like him but they both had already chosen the F-1 and now JP is the one in question and the family liked Ben .
Its the same in all three seasons that the F-1 is the one the Bachlorette says she was worried that the family wouldn't go for . i don't know if i'm making any sense but i hope it does a little bit . :hidingchair

[BachfanNY]

I can already feel myself getting protective of Ashley and it's not even Sunday night yet. Her sister irks me to nooo end in the new previews. I just want to hug poor Ash without even seeing the MTP portion yet. I'm sure it was over produced to some extent or whatever, but if she (big sis) is dense enough to not see her little sister breaking down on more than one occasion over their opinion of JP she needed to wake up and smell the roses. I know this is way back when and her opinion has changed but I really hope she takes this and learns from it, no one should be judged the way JP was judged upfront.

Totally. And it speaks volumes of JP. He took the heat for Ashley- What a man.

Those of you looking for a good man, that's good man right there.

[BachfanNY]

great, i'm posting back to back again. Some things don't change...

RE: Chrystie's reaction

Ashley has met her complement in JP. Their interaction is so effortless that it’s foreign to her sister.
Chrystie’s never seen this side of Ashley. Basically, she’s never seen her sister really in love & committed to a man (grown man that is ready to settle down & marry).

Personally speaking, I only dated older men….much older. And I thought, as did my family, that I would marry one of them because I was never attracted to guys my age.
Then all of the sudden I meet this guy who is a year younger than me and it just worked.
My mom and sister couldn’t believe it (questioned me a lot) and they thought I wasn’t serious…until months later, they saw how happy we were.
We’ve been married for 4 years and it gets better every day.

Anyway, my point is, Chrystie reaction was unwarranted & yet almost normal.
She was wrong to put JP through the ringer but no harm done. It only solidified both JP and Ashley’s relationship.
JP must have been scared out of his boxers (sigh) and Ashley was beside herself = we’re in love!
So I guess they can thank her for that…lol

[Guest]

...
Anyway, my point is, Chrystie reaction was unwarranted & yet almost normal.
She was wrong to put JP through the ringer but no harm done. It only solidified both JP and Ashley’s relationship.
JP must have been scared out of his boxers (sigh) and Ashley was beside herself = we’re in love!
So I guess they can thank her for that…lol

I totally agree that Chrystie's reaction was normal! I don't think she should have been rude to JP by not hearing him out and telling him Ashley didn't have a strong connection with him, but as a sister she has every right to tell Ashley how she's feeling. If I felt like my sister was making a mistake, no matter how happy she was, I would ABSOLUTELY tell her! Even though her assessment of the relationship was wrong, I think she had Ashley's best interest in mind. That's what sisters are for!

[jlccaz]

Ashley on the tvgrapevine preview: "You're saying everything that's in my head. And I know all of these things. I'm trying to figure it out, but you're just coming across like you're being such a *****."

As of Fiji, she's still figuring it out among 2 choices, each of which is tempting in its own way. JP is her top choice, but there's something very appealing to her /about Ben as well. Not a straight line, had me from hello season, IMO.

[Guest]

Glad you brought that line up.... I heard it the same way, and am tempted to believe it really reflected her feelings, as she was speaking from the gut to her family, rather than in a PI.... But maybe it's just as produced as everything else??

[pavalygurl]

Ashley on the tvgrapevine preview: "You're saying everything that's in my head. And I know all of these things. I'm trying to figure it out, but you're just coming across like you're being such a *****."

As of Fiji, she's still figuring it out among 2 choices, each of which is tempting in its own way. JP is her top choice, but there's something very appealing to her /about Ben as well. Not a straight line, had me from hello season, IMO.

Thanks for this jlccaz. This is what I feel and maybe the crux of my thought about why Ben felt his proposal would be well received. I think Ash was into him as well. Even though her choice was JP, I don't think it was as easy a choice as some may think. I agree this was not a straight line season.

[BachfanNY]

Ashley has the luxury of having 2 great guys.
To me, its obvious she's falling for JP but if she has another great guy to compare him to (ben), she's going to have to consider all the pros and cons for both.
She learned the hardway to use her head as well as her heart.
So yeah, its no surprise that she's already thought about what her sister is vocalizing.

[Guest]

But she spoke in the present tense...??

[Bronwyn]

I just took that line as meaning she was struggling between her head and her heart. In the end, she chose to follow her heart.

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