Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #2

[moonchild]

I agree that I see much more firm evidence that this relationship is starting on more solid ground than many of the others, from both what we have seen on the show (the best communication skills of pretty much any couple so far in the franchise, and in a season where there was a lot of need for communication, not to mention undeniable chemistry) and off the show (JP's vlog defending Ashley showed a level of understanding and empathy towards her that was heartwarming). They may have different personalities, but so do many successful couples, and for some people, that's a plus, not a minus; they seem to have a lot of commonalities and shared goals/values as well IMO. And unlike last season, there are no extra major hurdles to overcome this time, and they have apparently already worked out a plan to go forward as a couple, also unlike last season.

Whether JP will tire of Ashley's silliness or not, I can't say, but he sure managed to sit through over 2 months watching it on TV and appears to be more in love with her than ever. I sense he knows what he's in for with her, and welcomes it. It also doesn't appear that he was fazed in any major way about anything he saw on the show regarding other guys, not that IMO there was much to see. But again, only time will tell, and if they don't ultimately make it, it may be because of something entirely unrelated to having begun this relationship on a cheesy reality show.

As usual, ironcat, ITA. I do believe that this couple tops Trista and Ryan, not only in seeing their love story develop, but the foundation of communication that they have established to work through what they have been through and what they will go through in the future. To Ashley's credit, she has made it a point to bring JP totally through the "jouney" with her. To steal a line, I think there are good things to come for Ashely (and JP).

[Peppermom]

I'm camping for the weekend but had to come back home to pick up a few things I forgot and of course had to check the board. I watched Ben's video... well part of it cause it was so juvenile and gross .... and all I got to say is that Ashley dodged a bullet by not picking him. Knowing this about him is going to make it easier to see him getting dumped on Monday. Call me old, call me a prude... I don't care... but to me that's nasty for a guy his age. I think I pegged him right early in the season when I said that him a few other guys had a frat boy mentality. No wonder JP acted like he did in HK.... a man living with boys IMO.

Enjoy your weekend folks........ and if I get a chance I'll probably log on with my Blackberry later.... just can't stay away for finale weekend. Actually camping quite a few that are unspoiled fans of the show... can't wait to hear what they have to say

That makes two of us. I know a lot of people thought it was funny, but I was definitely not laughing. I will join the ranks of the prude and old. And I also am glad Ashley didn't pick Ben. Before I saw that I really liked Ben, but now, not so much.

[onlyme]

Since there were comments about pecks with Ben, what do you all think about Ashley's comment to Ben in the mud bath about wishing she could reach lower? I thought it was very suggestive and surprised me since she knew she'd be getting engaged to another guy in a day or two. Perhaps Ben had good reason to think he was "the one". I think there was possibly a lot more chemistry with Ben than people think.

My honest opinion about Ashley's comment in that preview and also the whole suntan lotion scene in the FD is that Ashley's comments sounded forced and unnatural, like she was overcompensating for a lack of actual heat with suggestive comments. There was something about her delivery of those lines that made them sound insincere to me, it was a combination of the cadence being different from how she normally speaks and her being louder than usual I think. But all that means to me is Ashley was emotionally disengaged because by that point she had made her choice. It does NOT mean she wasn't attracted to Ben F, didn't care for him, didn't have real feelings for him, or anything like that.

I just don't think it's as simple as saying either Ashley was faking it with Ben F because of the producers or she was still legitimately considering him as a F1 possibility. But by the HTDs, I think Ashley knew she was picking JP and by necessity that meant shutting off a part of herself to Ben F. She didn't want to make him feel unwelcome or unwanted because she valued his friendship, was attracted to him, and sincerely cared for him. She wanted him to feel wanted because he was her real F2 but at the same time, a big part of her was closed off to him because she knew he wasn't going to be her F1.

I agree. Especially with the bolded. I think it was easier for Ashley to make 'flirty' comments than to actually have to have frank discussions with Ben. She did like him and I don't think wanted to hurt him, (I think they had a great friendship at this point) but her heart was with JP.

[ironcat]

I'm camping for the weekend but had to come back home to pick up a few things I forgot and of course had to check the board. I watched Ben's video... well part of it cause it was so juvenile and gross .... and all I got to say is that Ashley dodged a bullet by not picking him. Knowing this about him is going to make it easier to see him getting dumped on Monday. Call me old, call me a prude... I don't care... but to me that's nasty for a guy his age. I think I pegged him right early in the season when I said that him a few other guys had a frat boy mentality. No wonder JP acted like he did in HK.... a man living with boys IMO.

Enjoy your weekend folks........ and if I get a chance I'll probably log on with my Blackberry later.... just can't stay away for finale weekend. Actually camping quite a few that are unspoiled fans of the show... can't wait to hear what they have to say

That makes two of us. I know a lot of people thought it was funny, but I was definitely not laughing. I will join the ranks of the prude and old. And I also am glad Ashley didn't pick Ben. Before I saw that I really liked Ben, but now, not so much.

The video didn't really bother or shock me, or even turn me off Ben, because I suspected all along there was more of a frat boy side to his personality than how the show was portraying him, and the video was pretty much confirmation of this. What it tells me is that Ben is ready for a girlfriend, but I doubt he is really ready for a wife right now. Admittedly, I began the season suspecting that Ashley was also not ready for a husband, or at least that wasn't a top priority for her at the moment (as it was for say, Trista), but when a winning lottery ticket falls into your lap, so to speak, you cash it in. I think Ashley realized she had a chance at the real thing with JP (I think the same thing happened to Ali when she met Roberto), and this level of quality guy may only come along once in her life, so she'd be a fool to not grab him. There was no way Ben could compete with that, even though he may have made a great boyfriend for her now (and possibly a great husband sometime in the future, whether for Ashley or some other woman).

[onlyme]

In regards to the mud bath and sun-tanning on the yacht... yes, Ashley is getting a bit too "personal" with Ben for comfort. However, nothing really "bad" happens. Much of it is talk and no action for the cameras. If Ben is convinced that he's the one, it is because he is just getting over his "walls" and certainly doesn't expect to be too-too intimate with her until the show is over.

Despite what we all think and Fleiss promotes, not every lead "consummates" with either final one or two before production wraps (although I'm a bit suspicious of "Jordash" here... ha ha ha). Ben has no clue whether or not JP is getting closed-mouth kisses and just body rubbings. WE see what happens under that umbrella, not the competing bachelors... which made Ryan's move back in Phuket so hysterically funny. Ryan just knew Ashley was soaked after her time with JP and that she was carried back by him.

I can only GUESS how all of the competing bachelors watching that "extended" Peak Tram scene on Monday will react...

One thing is for sure. Ashley wastes no time TELLING Jordan EVERYTHING. He is the first to know about Bentley, Dino and Ryan. I'm sure he has the Full Report on "how far" the Ben/Ash relationship went. If not, he is probably on speed-dial during each broadcast.

From the way this show appears to some of us, she selected for her Final Three Fantasy-suiting two guys with "walls" (one leaving early) and one for whom those walls had long since fallen...

Favorite line on Ben's date: I lost my flower! (She had painted an Ashley Flower with his elephant in Phuket.)

Then there was that funny flower pedal (or whatever that thing was) that landed on JP's head...

That darn petal bugs me everytime I see the clip (I have watched it many times ). I want to reach into my TV and wipe it away. Acutally I couldn't figure out what it was.

[JBF]

The video didn't really bother or shock me, or even turn me off Ben, because I suspected all along there was more of a frat boy side to his personality than how the show was portraying him, and the video was pretty much confirmation of this. What it tells me is that Ben is ready for a girlfriend, but I doubt he is really ready for a wife right now. Admittedly, I began the season suspecting that Ashley was also not ready for a husband, or at least that wasn't a top priority for her at the moment (as it was for say, Trista), but when a winning lottery ticket falls into your lap, so to speak, you cash it in. I think Ashley realized she had a chance at the real thing with JP (I think the same thing happened to Ali when she met Roberto), and this level of quality guy may only come along once in her life, so she'd be a fool to not grab him. There was no way Ben could compete with that, even though he may have made a great boyfriend for her now (and possibly a great husband sometime in the future, whether for Ashley or some other woman).

That video was all talk/singing and no action. Actually, it got boring after the first two minutes… once you got the joke. Sums up my take on his “intimate” scenes with Ashley. Despite all of their potty talk, Ben insists that he and Ashley are "giddy little school children".

Poor boy, though, looks like he’s the product of a rather structured and disciplined childhood. Still hard on himself for not being The Perfect Son. Regardless of the rumors, I think Britt might be a good "cure" for him. She looked like she was expecting Brad to send her adrift from the yacht. Nothing good ever ends well.

Hopefully this show has had a positive effect on him. Look at the others. Ames abandoned Bachelor Pad Ship to chase after his woman… if we believe the RS spoilers. Guess he is fully exploiting his sprezzatura. Still scratching my head about the "revitalized" Blake on BP2. Ryan says he is never holding back ever again, although that doesn’t seem like much of a change for him.

As Brad said last season on his carnival date: I had so many walls built up… and tonight with Ashley, all of those came down.

Oh… Ashley. If you only realized how you make EVERY man feel ALIVE.

Favorite line on Ben's date: I lost my flower! (She had painted an Ashley Flower with his elephant in Phuket.)

Then there was that funny flower pedal (or whatever that thing was) that landed on JP's head...

That darn petal bugs me everytime I see the clip (I have watched it many times ). I want to reach into my TV and wipe it away. Acutally I couldn't figure out what it was.

It HAD to have been a flower pedal... maybe not from Ben's date, but it planted ideas in my demented brain. (She was "de-flowered" on Ben's yacht, but it blew apart across the islands, only to land as a pedal on JP's head.) Also love how it doesn't go away when he tilts his head, but vanishes soon enough, from shot to shot. Ashley must have rubbed it off as she rubbing elsewhere between "takes".

This season has made us all a little too frisky for our own good.

[LibbyBell]

That video was all talk/singing and no action. Actually, it got boring after the first two minutes… once you got the joke. Sums up my take on his “intimate” scenes with Ashley. Despite all of their potty talk, Ben insists that he and Ashley are "giddy little school children".

Poor boy, though, looks like he’s the product of a rather structured and disciplined childhood. Still hard on himself for not being The Perfect Son. Regardless of the rumors, I think Britt might be a good "cure" for him. She looked like she was expecting Brad to send her adrift from the yacht. Nothing good ever ends well.
Hopefully this show has had a positive effect on him. Look at the others. Ames abandoned Bachelor Pad Ship to chase after his woman… if we believe the RS spoilers. Guess he is fully exploiting his sprezzatura. Still scratching my head about the "revitalized" Blake on BP2. Ryan says he is never holding back ever again, although that doesn’t seem like much of a change for him.

As Brad said last season on his carnival date: I had so many walls built up… and tonight with Ashley, all of those came down.

Oh… Ashley. If you only realized how you make EVERY man feel ALIVE.

Favorite line on Ben's date: I lost my flower! (She had painted an Ashley Flower with his elephant in Phuket.)

Then there was that funny flower pedal (or whatever that thing was) that landed on JP's head...

That darn petal bugs me everytime I see the clip (I have watched it many times ). I want to reach into my TV and wipe it away. Acutally I couldn't figure out what it was.

It HAD to have been a flower pedal... maybe not from Ben's date, but it planted ideas in my demented brain. (She was "de-flowered" on Ben's yacht, but it blew apart across the islands, only to land as a pedal on JP's head.) Also love how it doesn't go away when he tilts his head, but vanishes soon enough, from shot to shot. Ashley must have rubbed it off as she rubbing elsewhere between "takes".

This season has made us all a little too frisky for our own good.

JBF, Ben saying this-- even at the AFR screams next bachelor to me. I just can't get past that.
And, you may be right about this season making us all a little too frisky for our own good... but, you have to admit, it was fun! And many thought that this season would be a wash for them; barely tolerable for them to watch! Well, that didn't turn out to be the case, did it!! Didn't we all get a little satisfaction out of it?!?! :shy:

[Guest]

I'm camping for the weekend but had to come back home to pick up a few things I forgot and of course had to check the board. I watched Ben's video... well part of it cause it was so juvenile and gross .... and all I got to say is that Ashley dodged a bullet by not picking him. Knowing this about him is going to make it easier to see him getting dumped on Monday. Call me old, call me a prude... I don't care... but to me that's nasty for a guy his age. I think I pegged him right early in the season when I said that him a few other guys had a frat boy mentality. No wonder JP acted like he did in HK.... a man living with boys IMO.

Enjoy your weekend folks........ and if I get a chance I'll probably log on with my Blackberry later.... just can't stay away for finale weekend. Actually camping quite a few that are unspoiled fans of the show... can't wait to hear what they have to say

That makes two of us. I know a lot of people thought it was funny, but I was definitely not laughing. I will join the ranks of the prude and old. And I also am glad Ashley didn't pick Ben. Before I saw that I really liked Ben, but now, not so much.

Make that three. I still think Ben is a nice guy but that video was disappointing. I want Mickey as next BACH anyway. MF give us eye candy please. :hearts love:

[albean99]

Since there were comments about pecks with Ben, what do you all think about Ashley's comment to Ben in the mud bath about wishing she could reach lower? I thought it was very suggestive and surprised me since she knew she'd be getting engaged to another guy in a day or two. Perhaps Ben had good reason to think he was "the one". I think there was possibly a lot more chemistry with Ben than people think.

My honest opinion about Ashley's comment in that preview and also the whole suntan lotion scene in the FD is that Ashley's comments sounded forced and unnatural, like she was overcompensating for a lack of actual heat with suggestive comments. There was something about her delivery of those lines that made them sound insincere to me, it was a combination of the cadence being different from how she normally speaks and her being louder than usual I think. But all that means to me is Ashley was emotionally disengaged because by that point she had made her choice. It does NOT mean she wasn't attracted to Ben F, didn't care for him, didn't have real feelings for him, or anything like that.

I just don't think it's as simple as saying either Ashley was faking it with Ben F because of the producers or she was still legitimately considering him as a F1 possibility. But by the HTDs, I think Ashley knew she was picking JP and by necessity that meant shutting off a part of herself to Ben F. She didn't want to make him feel unwelcome or unwanted because she valued his friendship, was attracted to him, and sincerely cared for him. She wanted him to feel wanted because he was her real F2 but at the same time, a big part of her was closed off to him because she knew he wasn't going to be her F1.

I agree. Especially with the bolded. I think it was easier for Ashley to make 'flirty' comments than to actually have to have frank discussions with Ben. She did like him and I don't think wanted to hurt him, (I think they had a great friendship at this point) but her heart was with JP.

I'm sorry but that went beyond flirty. It was very suggestive and didn't sound forced to me nor do I think she was talking about not being able to reach the mud that someone else suggested. It was all mud in there. :laughingoutlou I'm not calling Ashley a tease but can see why Ben would be confused.

It's certainly up to all of us to decide what we think of the video Ben was in however I think there's a lot of people who find it funny including Shawntel from last season. It's not my thing but I'm sure my sons would laugh. I do object to dismissing Ben as a "frat boy". I've noticed a tendency to do that with him and I'm not sure what it means other than as a way of dismissing him. He was in a fraternity but he's also a business owner who takes it very seriously. He was also talked about very favorably by friends and others in Sonoma who know a lot more about him than we do. I'm sure he likes to have fun and have seen that with him & also Ashley but don't we all? :Nod:

[pavalygurl]

Since there were comments about pecks with Ben, what do you all think about Ashley's comment to Ben in the mud bath about wishing she could reach lower? I thought it was very suggestive and surprised me since she knew she'd be getting engaged to another guy in a day or two. Perhaps Ben had good reason to think he was "the one". I think there was possibly a lot more chemistry with Ben than people think.

My honest opinion about Ashley's comment in that preview and also the whole suntan lotion scene in the FD is that Ashley's comments sounded forced and unnatural, like she was overcompensating for a lack of actual heat with suggestive comments. There was something about her delivery of those lines that made them sound insincere to me, it was a combination of the cadence being different from how she normally speaks and her being louder than usual I think. But all that means to me is Ashley was emotionally disengaged because by that point she had made her choice. It does NOT mean she wasn't attracted to Ben F, didn't care for him, didn't have real feelings for him, or anything like that.

I just don't think it's as simple as saying either Ashley was faking it with Ben F because of the producers or she was still legitimately considering him as a F1 possibility. But by the HTDs, I think Ashley knew she was picking JP and by necessity that meant shutting off a part of herself to Ben F. She didn't want to make him feel unwelcome or unwanted because she valued his friendship, was attracted to him, and sincerely cared for him. She wanted him to feel wanted because he was her real F2 but at the same time, a big part of her was closed off to him because she knew he wasn't going to be her F1.

I agree. Especially with the bolded. I think it was easier for Ashley to make 'flirty' comments than to actually have to have frank discussions with Ben. She did like him and I don't think wanted to hurt him, (I think they had a great friendship at this point) but her heart was with JP.

I'm sorry but that went beyond flirty. It was very suggestive and didn't sound forced to me nor do I think she was talking about not being able to reach the mud that someone else suggested. It was all mud in there. I'm not calling Ashley a tease but can see why Ben would be confused.

It's certainly up to all of us to decide what we think of the video Ben was in however I think there's a lot of people who find it funny including Shawntel from last season. It's not my thing but I'm sure my sons would laugh. I do object to dismissing Ben as a "frat boy". I've noticed a tendency to do that with him and I'm not sure what it means other than as a way of dismissing him. He was in a fraternity but he's also a business owner who takes it very seriously. He was also talked about very favorably by friends and others in Sonoma who know a lot more about him than we do. I'm sure he likes to have fun and have seen that with him & also Ashley but don't we all?

No surprise here that I agree. There is no need to dismiss Ben in any way. JP is F1. Ben is no threat to cupcake so why not just let it go? I love gracious winners. LOL

[GrahamGal]

Since there were comments about pecks with Ben, what do you all think about Ashley's comment to Ben in the mud bath about wishing she could reach lower? I thought it was very suggestive and surprised me since she knew she'd be getting engaged to another guy in a day or two. Perhaps Ben had good reason to think he was "the one". I think there was possibly a lot more chemistry with Ben than people think.

My honest opinion about Ashley's comment in that preview and also the whole suntan lotion scene in the FD is that Ashley's comments sounded forced and unnatural, like she was overcompensating for a lack of actual heat with suggestive comments. There was something about her delivery of those lines that made them sound insincere to me, it was a combination of the cadence being different from how she normally speaks and her being louder than usual I think. But all that means to me is Ashley was emotionally disengaged because by that point she had made her choice. It does NOT mean she wasn't attracted to Ben F, didn't care for him, didn't have real feelings for him, or anything like that.

I just don't think it's as simple as saying either Ashley was faking it with Ben F because of the producers or she was still legitimately considering him as a F1 possibility. But by the HTDs, I think Ashley knew she was picking JP and by necessity that meant shutting off a part of herself to Ben F. She didn't want to make him feel unwelcome or unwanted because she valued his friendship, was attracted to him, and sincerely cared for him. She wanted him to feel wanted because he was her real F2 but at the same time, a big part of her was closed off to him because she knew he wasn't going to be her F1.

I agree. Especially with the bolded. I think it was easier for Ashley to make 'flirty' comments than to actually have to have frank discussions with Ben. She did like him and I don't think wanted to hurt him, (I think they had a great friendship at this point) but her heart was with JP.

I'm sorry but that went beyond flirty. It was very suggestive and didn't sound forced to me nor do I think she was talking about not being able to reach the mud that someone else suggested. It was all mud in there. I'm not calling Ashley a tease but can see why Ben would be confused.

It's certainly up to all of us to decide what we think of the video Ben was in however I think there's a lot of people who find it funny including Shawntel from last season. It's not my thing but I'm sure my sons would laugh. I do object to dismissing Ben as a "frat boy". I've noticed a tendency to do that with him and I'm not sure what it means other than as a way of dismissing him. He was in a fraternity but he's also a business owner who takes it very seriously. He was also talked about very favorably by friends and others in Sonoma who know a lot more about him than we do. I'm sure he likes to have fun and have seen that with him & also Ashley but don't we all?

No surprise here that I agree. There is no need to dismiss Ben in any way. JP is F1. Ben is no threat to cupcake so why not just let it go? I love gracious winners. LOL

I think everyone knows that Ben is not a threat to JP and Ashley. We are just openly discussing things on a forum for such discussions. Nothing more nothing less. We are looking for things to discuss while we wait for the finale.

[Peppermom]

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