Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #2

[cfck2222]

Since there were comments about pecks with Ben, what do you all think about Ashley's comment to Ben in the mud bath about wishing she could reach lower? I thought it was very suggestive and surprised me since she knew she'd be getting engaged to another guy in a day or two. Perhaps Ben had good reason to think he was "the one". I think there was possibly a lot more chemistry with Ben than people think.

My honest opinion about Ashley's comment in that preview and also the whole suntan lotion scene in the FD is that Ashley's comments sounded forced and unnatural, like she was overcompensating for a lack of actual heat with suggestive comments. There was something about her delivery of those lines that made them sound insincere to me, it was a combination of the cadence being different from how she normally speaks and her being louder than usual I think. But all that means to me is Ashley was emotionally disengaged because by that point she had made her choice. It does NOT mean she wasn't attracted to Ben F, didn't care for him, didn't have real feelings for him, or anything like that.

I just don't think it's as simple as saying either Ashley was faking it with Ben F because of the producers or she was still legitimately considering him as a F1 possibility. But by the HTDs, I think Ashley knew she was picking JP and by necessity that meant shutting off a part of herself to Ben F. She didn't want to make him feel unwelcome or unwanted because she valued his friendship, was attracted to him, and sincerely cared for him. She wanted him to feel wanted because he was her real F2 but at the same time, a big part of her was closed off to him because she knew he wasn't going to be her F1.

[noobsleuth]

nativenewyorker, if everyone on this board were as gracious as you i would actually post more. if ben had realized he wasn't a shoe-in i'm sure he would have handled the rejection better, and i'm sure ash in no way was trying to hurt him when she froze up and allowed him to get down on bended knee. we're all human and we all make mistakes so it's wise not to cast blame. as i remember a wise man said let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

I agree. I think Ashley has memorized what she going to say to Ben but somehow had brain freeze and was beaten to the punch by Ben who was excited to declare his love.Ashley loved and cared for Ben but she was not in love with him.The last thing she would want to do was intentionally humiliate Ben.Ben did not have an issue about the "proposal" ,otherwise he would have mentioned it, he seems to have recovered from tne heartbreak at the ATFR. As a saying goes, "it is better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all".

Well, and here we sit, knowing the outcome, screaming at our TV, "NO BEN DON' DO IT!!". LOL Unless we were there we don't know what was whispered in his ear to make him think he should speak first. Ash didn't really help either by continuing to kiss him and tell him she "wants to go lower" ahem... yeah things like that don't help. I thought Brad made it pretty obvious. He barely touched Chantal and I think they kissed maybe once. He took her shark diving (poor girl). Taking your F2 to a mud pit where rubbing each other half naked is the whole point... not a good idea.

[ironcat]

nativenewyorker, if everyone on this board were as gracious as you i would actually post more. if ben had realized he wasn't a shoe-in i'm sure he would have handled the rejection better, and i'm sure ash in no way was trying to hurt him when she froze up and allowed him to get down on bended knee. we're all human and we all make mistakes so it's wise not to cast blame. as i remember a wise man said let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

I agree. I think Ashley has memorized what she going to say to Ben but somehow had brain freeze and was beaten to the punch by Ben who was excited to declare his love.Ashley loved and cared for Ben but she was not in love with him.The last thing she would want to do was intentionally humiliate Ben.Ben did not have an issue about the "proposal" ,otherwise he would have mentioned it, he seems to have recovered from tne heartbreak at the ATFR. As a saying goes, "it is better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all".

Well, and here we sit, knowing the outcome, screaming at our TV, "NO BEN DON' DO IT!!". LOL Unless we were there we don't know what was whispered in his ear to make him think he should speak first. Ash didn't really help either by continuing to kiss him and tell him she "wants to go lower" ahem... yeah things like that don't help. I thought Brad made it pretty obvious. He barely touched Chantal and I think they kissed maybe once. He took her shark diving (poor girl). Taking your F2 to a mud pit where rubbing each other half naked is the whole point... not a good idea.

Well, we know she doesn't decide on the dates, the producers do, so somebody had the go on the mud date. I'm not sure how romantic or sensual the activity really was, from what I understand the mud doesn't smell great. I'm waiting to see how it all plays out, because I didn't find that little clip of it to be very "provocative" at all, more like two kids playing.

I suspect if Fiji has shark diving, and that was one of the offered activities, Ash would have been happy to go on that date with Ben instead!

[skitts]

nativenewyorker, if everyone on this board were as gracious as you i would actually post more. if ben had realized he wasn't a shoe-in i'm sure he would have handled the rejection better, and i'm sure ash in no way was trying to hurt him when she froze up and allowed him to get down on bended knee. we're all human and we all make mistakes so it's wise not to cast blame. as i remember a wise man said let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

I agree. I think Ashley has memorized what she going to say to Ben but somehow had brain freeze and was beaten to the punch by Ben who was excited to declare his love.Ashley loved and cared for Ben but she was not in love with him.The last thing she would want to do was intentionally humiliate Ben.Ben did not have an issue about the "proposal" ,otherwise he would have mentioned it, he seems to have recovered from tne heartbreak at the ATFR. As a saying goes, "it is better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all".

Well, and here we sit, knowing the outcome, screaming at our TV, "NO BEN DON' DO IT!!". LOL Unless we were there we don't know what was whispered in his ear to make him think he should speak first. Ash didn't really help either by continuing to kiss him and tell him she "wants to go lower" ahem... yeah things like that don't help. I thought Brad made it pretty obvious. He barely touched Chantal and I think they kissed maybe once. He took her shark diving (poor girl). Taking your F2 to a mud pit where rubbing each other half naked is the whole point... not a good idea.

If the sc's are any indication, Ben has a WTH and get me the hell out of here look! :P :P :P

[GrahamGal]

nativenewyorker, if everyone on this board were as gracious as you i would actually post more. if ben had realized he wasn't a shoe-in i'm sure he would have handled the rejection better, and i'm sure ash in no way was trying to hurt him when she froze up and allowed him to get down on bended knee. we're all human and we all make mistakes so it's wise not to cast blame. as i remember a wise man said let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

Love your post gabriele. Please post more often.

[albean99]

I know what you're all feeling. I was the same way with Jillian because I really didn't think there was anything with Reid but in retrospect I do think she had stronger feelings for him than I believed at the time. It was going to be Ed but do think it was closer than I ever thought. I feel the same way with Ali but about Frank. I wonder how close it would have been if he hadn't taken himself out of the equation? Clearly she got the better guy for her so good that it happened that way.

There's no question that Ashley has a ton of chemistry with JP but you also have to have more. She really has an goofy side judging by the deleted scenes with Ben. Her sister was worried that she wouldn't be able to really be herself with JP. Maybe that's something Ashley also worried about. Ultimately she made a decision based on everything and doesn't appear to have any regrets so I'm not going to 2nd guess it.

[Diana]

She looks so beautiful here.

[ironcat]

I know what you're all feeling. I was the same way with Jillian because I really didn't think there was anything with Reid but in retrospect I do think she had stronger feelings for him than I believed at the time. It was going to be Ed but do think it was closer than I ever thought. I feel the same way with Ali but about Frank. I wonder how close it would have been if he hadn't taken himself out of the equation? Clearly she got the better guy for her so good that it happened that way.

There's no question that Ashley has a ton of chemistry with JP but you also have to have more. She really has an goofy side judging by the deleted scenes with Ben. Her sister was worried that she wouldn't be able to really be herself with JP. Maybe that's something Ashley also worried about. Ultimately she made a decision based on everything and doesn't appear to have any regrets so I'm not going to 2nd guess it.

Honestly, I think she and Ben had a lot of compatability, and I believe, and have said before, that had JP not been on the show, she very well would have picked Ben, and maybe more of a romantic/sexual spark would have happened for her with him. And they would have taken their relationship far slower in the real world than she and JP will be taking theirs, and their odds of actually working out would probably be as good as any other couple from this show (and better than Brad and Emily, IMO). But I truly believe that when she realized that JP was "it" for her, as he had realized she was "it" for him, she was no longer really interested in exploring the possibilities with anyone else, although the format of the show forced her to continue to do just that. She said she was 95% sure at or after HTDs, I can't remember which, I'm sure that knowing the the Rosenbaums accepted her with open arms (she was worried about the religious issue) added quite a few points to that assurity. The FDs, where I suspect she and JP reached a new level of intimacy, shall we say (and he may have even told her he loved her off camera), totally sealed the deal. However, she still had one more date with Ben to get through regardless. And of course, she also had to resign herself, unexpectedly, to the fact that her sister didn't approve of her choice of a future husband, which she obviously did, since she accepted JP's proposal, apparently with no reservations.

[CanadaGoose]

I've also wondered if some of the weepy "I can't do this anymore" scenes (and even CH's comment about almost shutting down production) were not only about Bentley, etc., but about the difficulty of continuing after the first few magical times spent with JP. He outright said he wanted it to end now on a couple of occasions; maybe she wished it could, as well.

[mandlos86]

I've also wondered if some of the weepy "I can't do this anymore" scenes (and even CH's comment about almost shutting down production) were not only about Bentley, etc., but about the difficulty of continuing after the first few magical times spent with JP. He outright said he wanted it to end now on a couple of occasions; maybe she wished it could, as well.

I've thought that several times too!

[LibbyBell]

... snipped for brevity



Since there were comments about pecks with Ben, what do you all think about Ashley's comment to Ben in the mud bath about wishing she could reach lower? I thought it was very suggestive and surprised me since she knew she'd be getting engaged to another guy in a day or two. Perhaps Ben had good reason to think he was "the one". I think there was possibly a lot more chemistry with Ben than people think.

I've only seen the clip a couple of times and have not done a lot of super analysing of it but, when I heard Ashley say this the first thing that I took from it was that she was standing in the mud up to her chin already and I don't think that she could reach the bottom of the pit in order to grab a good handful without dunking her head into the mud. When they were toward the bank of the mud pit, she had no problem reaching and grabbing mud to rub all over Ben. I get that the mud, all slippery, would be sensual to rub all over but, in watching the clip, I really don't see much action behind the words. Perhaps we will see more in what makes the show vs. the preview but, usually, they preview the best that they have. I also know what the enuendo was and Ben certainly laughed at it but, I think sometimes Ashley speaks without thinking how a statement will sound. It did get her in trouble in HK when she told the other guys about the B thing-- she made it sound like they were all 2nd fiddles when in reality, they weren't. JMO based on a few initial viewings of the clip.

[ironcat]

I think a lot of them wish they could end it (Meredith, for sure, and probably Ali), but not only can't they, they have to pretend to be interested in the other guys, and act romantic with them and "make good TV". I'm sure after years of doing this, the producers have many ways of "coaxing" the leads to play along, and they often get themselves into trouble with fans because of it, by saying or doing things they would rather not have, but did in a need to cooperate. Meredith, with telling Matt she'd be "honored to be offered a ring" sure took crap for that, and I see now that Ashley will take crap for her "suggestive" line to Ben in the mud. Oh, well, JP will be her rock, as always. I think it's a worthwhile trade off, and suspect I'm not alone!

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