Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #2

[Guest]

I have been trying to be as respectful as possible towards both Ben and his fans. It's never easy to be F2 and it hurts to see it when you are a fan of that person. I have said that I will wait until I see it all play out before I make any judgements. I have some questions in my mind based on the dialogue between Ben and Ashley at the FRC. Ben did interrupt Ashley and did not initially allow her to tell him what she intended to say. That indicates to me that Ben had a clear intention of proposing. How Ashley reacts and what she does as he talks to her and then goes down on one knee to propose, will be the thing I am looking for when I see it. Ashley could well have been so taken aback that she literally froze right there. She might not have known how to react or what to say. It's easy for someone to say she should have done this or should have done that. Once I see how it all happens, then I will be able to have some reasonable opinion about all of it. For now I am just going to wait and see.

As far as what led up to this, the other things that stood out to me is that Ben apparently never considered the possibility that he might be rejected. I think that is one big reason why he ends up taking it so hard. If you think it's a done deal and then it all blows up in your face, that would make his reaction seem quite understandable. We have never seen Ben get angry, but this is the worst of all possible situations. JP had a very different process. He thought it all out and weighed the risks versus the rewards. If you have ever been in therapy and are dealing with something that scares you to the point that you can't handle it, many times the therapist or counselor will ask you - what is the worst thing that could happen. That enables you to look at it and realize that it's not the end of the world. Then you can move forward. I think this is what JP did. He told Ashley on their HTD - someone's heart will be broken at the end. So he did face the worst case scenario. He knew that there was a chance he would have his heart broken again. However, he already faced this in his life when his two and a half year relationship with the woman he loved deeply ended. He also knew that even though it was a terrible thing, he managed to survive. I think this was the key to how JP was able to get through this season and keep himself together. He discussed it with his brother at the HTD. His brother asked him point blank if he was prepared to accept the possibility that he might be heart broken again. He told him that he was prepared to take that risk because of his feelings for Ashley. JP didn't want to walk away having not risked it all and wondering what might have been.

Ben and JP had two very different approaches to dealing with the dilemma of how to handle competing with one woman when there are other men involved. Ben seemed to close himself off from any other possibility other than him being the F1. Either he didn't see the connection between JP and Ashley or just refused to acknowledge it. This enabled him to remain calm and composed throughout the process. He decided that he was the one. JP looked at it from all sides, realizing that there could well be a strong connection with other guys. I think he recognized that Ben did have a relationship with Ashley. He just couldn't know if it was as serious as his relationship with Ashley. He struggled with doubts and fears as the season progressed. He was battling his own fear of being rejected. JP has six years on Ben, more maturity, life experience and already having lived through the terrible heartbreak of losing a woman he loved. I think that made him better prepared in the end. I think that JP did go into the FRC confident of his feelings for Ashley and what they had. I can't say how he would have reacted if Ashley had told him he was not the one. No one can know that. I believe that when he looked in her eyes before he proposed, he knew he was the one. However, in his heart he was as prepared as one can be for disappointment.

Ben had nothing to fall back on when he was rejected. He bet the house. This is not to say that Ben was wrong. I am not assigning a value to how Ben handled it versus how JP did. I am just pointing out the differences. In light of Ben's belief when he went into the FRC, his reaction seems not so surprising. He was totally blindsided. Would it have been different if he had considered the possibility that he might not be the one? Would he have approached it differently? I don't know. What I hope for Ben is that he is ultimately able to take the good out of what happened on this journey, realize that he was finally able to open up emotionally to someone and move forward with his life. He should get out there and date people, have relationships and then find his special love. I am confident that it will happen. It's okay to hurt and be angry and have your feelings. However, it's how he chooses to deal with what happened, that will determine his future. I think he's going to find his happiness.

A really well-written post, NNY.... and this from a Ben fan. (Not necessarily a Bash fan, btw...)
I accede to AC's perception that Ashley was stunned in the moment, and yes, we will see Monday how it goes down.
But I suspect I will always scratch my head over Ashley's inadequate preparation for such a difficult but unavoidable moment as saying goodbye to F2, much the same as some are surprised by Ben's lack of "preparation" for the possibility of rejection...

[Love_Me]

[chaslom4]

JP looks so good, but please tell me he took off his shoes and pulled his pant legs up before he went into the water in that suit!

[Bhaka]

Nativenewyorker - great post, very thoughtful!

I agree that almost all of us are better equipped to handle a stressful situation at age 34 than we were at age 28. And it will only get better! Having said that, I think that all 3 of these young people, Ashley, JP, and Ben, have handled themselves extremely well.

They are a dental student, a construction manager, and a winemaker - pretty ordinary folks. They weren't celebraties accustomed to cameras, exotic locations, and lots of attention. Nothing could have prepared them for having to make significant decisions without loved ones to surround and support them. Bravo to each of them!

[Love_Me]

Bachette MTA and FRC by DreamersVids

[CanadaGoose]

But I suspect I will always scratch my head over Ashley's inadequate preparation for such a difficult but unavoidable moment as saying goodbye to F2, much the same as some are surprised by Ben's lack of "preparation" for the possibility of rejection...

I suspect Ashley was as prepared as she could be for what she knew would be a very difficult conversation. When Ben asked to speak first, perhaps she was hoping he was of the same mind as she was and he was about to back out gracefully ala Constantine. I'm looking forward to whatever TPTB decide to show us of how it really went down, but I can understand freezing because of a plan-gone-very-wrong.

[pbmax]

JMO....

Ash is in love and she doesn't even realize it. Maybe she's never been in love before or maybe her and sis were being that dense. (sorry if you are lurking Ash ) But as soon as sis said something and Ash immediately breaks into tears says it all. She did this twice and got on the defensive and threw the B-word at her sister. Yes, I do think at this point that Ash had two choices and she needed to figure it out but sorry I really don't think Ben was one. It was JP or walk away alone. I simply cannot be convinced that someone she could only kiss closed mouth and not even notice until half way through the season was going to get engaged to her. It at least wouldn't have been believable to me anyway. CH said she had made her choice going into the finale and her sister threw her for a loop. It would have been hard for anyone (even Ben) to believe that a girl with her mind made up all of sudden pulls a 180 because of something her sister said... uhh no. I don't think that's how love works.
I love Ben... I find myself cupping my hands around his face on my computer because he's so darn precious but I don't see him and Ash ever getting engaged within the time constraints of this show. Maybe I'm just drunk of the kool-aid.

I do agree with those of you saying that Ben sincerely thought his proposal would be accepted. Someone told him this would be a good idea. Apparently he is quite confident while picking out rings. Me thinks someone was playing with his head big time. Whether it be production and or Ashley either way it's kinda sad.

Well, I had a hard time wrapping my head around it during Trista's Season. Her kisses with Ryan were mostly pecks, especially during her FRC. That is why Ashley's pecks with Ben didn't really matter that much to me.

LOL, that kiss with Russ wasn't a peck either, he had his tongue all up in there, all up in there.

You will see & understand she is stunned. I will politely say I don't think it fair to judge Ashley unless you were in her exact perdictament. I think we need to cut Ashley & Ben some slack for how they may have reacted. Not too many people go through something like this, which includes cameras & millions of viewers. Let's remember that.

Stunned, stunned, that's what the FRC entail, a proposal. She was thinking he wasn't going to propose. It never crossed her mind. She didn't have a speech ready to tell him he was the weakest link, goodbye. I just don't know why she would be stunned to do something that's a part of this process. She wasn't stunned when she sent the other 20 home.

[Chacharo]

Nativenewyorker - great post, very thoughtful!

I agree that almost all of us are better equipped to handle a stressful situation at age 34 than we were at age 28. And it will only get better! Having said that, I think that all 3 of these young people, Ashley, JP, and Ben, have handled themselves extremely well.

They are a dental student, a construction manager, and a winemaker - pretty ordinary folks. They weren't celebraties accustomed to cameras, exotic locations, and lots of attention. Nothing could have prepared them for having to make significant decisions without loved ones to surround and support them. Bravo to each of them!

And bravo to your post!

After watching the new preview video, I just can't help but wonder if TPTB prodded both Ben to get down on one knee quickly and Ashley to let him get down on his knee. Makes for a dramatic preview, doesn't it.

[pavalygurl]

I want to see this smile on his face again some day. I hope he let's us know when he has found someone and is in love.

[pavalygurl]

Wow, I know its just a screen shot but JP does not look at all happy in that SC. I cannot believe how close in color both Ben and JP's suits are.

I was just thinking the same thing!

[pavalygurl]

I know, Bluwavz. I wouldn't mind so much if they wouldn't torment the f2 person but we know they do.

Even when I am not crazy about the F2 ( which is usually one of TB women LOL) I am so torn up by this part of the show. I am glad I have a very real heads up on the outcome this season. Still, it is gonna be hard to watch. I feel sick just thinking about it, but want to somehow "support" Ben by watching,stupid as that sounds.

[Love_Me]

THE BACHELORETTE - 'Episode 710' - In this gripping special conclusion, Ashley, who began her search for love with 25 bachelors, has survived a shocking and emotionally taxing journey and found herself falling in love with two very different, but wonderful men, Ben F. and J.P. As she prepares to make one of the most difficult decisions of her life, she invites the two remaining bachelors to tour more of the breathtaking island country of Fiji to meet her family. Ashley hopes her family will offer some crucial input about which incredible man they believe will make the better match for her. Then the men have one last chance to lay their hearts on the line, each trying to guarantee that he will be the one to get Ashley's final rose. Once fearful that none of the men would be drawn to her, she now has two men in love with her. But which man will she choose to leave paradise with and to share her life, and who will go home with a broken heart? The Season Finale of 'The Bachelorette' airs MONDAY, AUGUST 1 (8:00-10:02 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network. (Photo by Matt Klitscher/ABC via Getty Images)ASHLEY HEBERT

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