MAFS - Dave and Ashley - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - Discussion

Does a plea agreement between 8/14 and 10/2 mean that the charges could have changed? Or did he change his mind and plead guilty? Thanks for posting the info ArtemisGreen.

Now it seems odd that they sent them to Phoenix for their honeymoon. I wonder if David told her about it while there.

grace8136 wrote:Does a plea agreement between 8/14 and 10/2 mean that the charges could have changed? Or did he change his mind and plead guilty? Thanks for posting the info ArtemisGreen.

Now it seems odd that they sent them to Phoenix for their honeymoon. I wonder if David told her about it while there.

The timing strikes me as very normal period of time between arrest and resolution via plea.

If a weapon were involved there would I think be assault type charges.  This seems like property damage.  But imagine it would take something rather extreme for alleged victim to call the cops and for them to make an arrest, for the judge and prosecutor to require domestic violence counseling and restitution as part of the plea.  

What someone pleads to in an agreement may not relate to the conduct so much as taking that charge on a permanent record and being willing to accept the proposed consequence in the sentence.  Here I assume defendant was happy to avoid jail and pay restitution and attend classes.

grace8136 wrote:Does a plea agreement between 8/14 and 10/2 mean that the charges could have changed? Or did he change his mind and plead guilty? Thanks for posting the info ArtemisGreen.

Now it seems odd that they sent them to Phoenix for their honeymoon. I wonder if David told her about it while there.

Hmm. If this is true & he did tell her about it, that would explain why her behavior towards him changed so drastically. There was definitely a shift in her attitude once they came back from the honeymoon because she wasn't as closed off with him in the beginning even though she didn't find him attractive. Something changed in her post honeymoon.

fairytaleprincess wrote:

grace8136 wrote:Does a plea agreement between 8/14 and 10/2 mean that the charges could have changed? Or did he change his mind and plead guilty? Thanks for posting the info ArtemisGreen.

Now it seems odd that they sent them to Phoenix for their honeymoon. I wonder if David told her about it while there.

Hmm. If  this is true & he did tell her about it, that would explain why her behavior towards him changed so drastically. There was definitely a shift in her attitude once they came back from the honeymoon because she wasn't as closed off with him in the beginning even though she didn't find him attractive. Something changed in her post honeymoon.

Or maybe her family told her. If a family member was in this show I would be googling/cyber stalking their spouse as soon as I got home to find out what I could about them. And if I found something like this I would definitely tell them.

Tiggerlgh wrote:

fairytaleprincess wrote:

grace8136 wrote:Does a plea agreement between 8/14 and 10/2 mean that the charges could have changed? Or did he change his mind and plead guilty? Thanks for posting the info ArtemisGreen.

Now it seems odd that they sent them to Phoenix for their honeymoon. I wonder if David told her about it while there.

Hmm. If  this is true & he did tell her about it, that would explain why her behavior towards him changed so drastically. There was definitely a shift in her attitude once they came back from the honeymoon because she wasn't as closed off with him in the beginning even though she didn't find him attractive. Something changed in her post honeymoon.

Or maybe her family told her.  If a family member was in this show I would be googling/cyber stalking their spouse as soon as I got home to find out what I could about them.  And if I found something like this I would definitely tell them.

Fifty states / county / local criminal background checks cannot be done quickly, or merely via the internet. So, I have this feeling that the background checks by producers pre-match are less than the gold standard (i.e., where you list all places of residence, and local -- sometimes in person -- checks are performed by professional investigations services in each locale). On the other hand, this "hit" might have come up in an automated national search. Not sure. It's clearly a "hit" and the coincidence of the wedding date and the request for the record reflect that someone, whether on behalf of the Show, the Bride, or even the Groom, is not clear from the record.

Arrest and guilty plea involving angry outburst to someone where domestic violence counseling was deemed an appropriate sentence is disqualifying for this show, any one us should agree on that. It's a match between two strangers, and all the Blah Blah Blah from the (Not Very) Experts about building trust is complete B.S. where there is this sort of history, if that's the case.

I just have this motive for people to see what a Complete Farce this show is, and the Utter Lack of Professional Integrity among the experts who tape hours and hours of footage based upon lies. In the famous words of Elf to the Fake Santa in a favorite family Christmas movie, "you sit on a thrown of lies."

jlccaz wrote:

Tiggerlgh wrote:

fairytaleprincess wrote:

Hmm. If  this is true & he did tell her about it, that would explain why her behavior towards him changed so drastically. There was definitely a shift in her attitude once they came back from the honeymoon because she wasn't as closed off with him in the beginning even though she didn't find him attractive. Something changed in her post honeymoon.

Or maybe her family told her.  If a family member was in this show I would be googling/cyber stalking their spouse as soon as I got home to find out what I could about them.  And if I found something like this I would definitely tell them.

Fifty states / county / local criminal background checks cannot be done quickly, or merely via the internet.  So, I have this feeling that the background checks by producers pre-match are less than the gold standard (i.e., where you list all places of residence, and local -- sometimes in person -- checks are performed by professional investigations services in each locale).  On the other hand, this "hit" might have come up in an automated national search.  Not sure.  It's clearly a "hit" and the coincidence of the wedding date and the request for the record reflect that someone, whether on behalf of the Show, the Bride, or even the Groom, is not clear from the record.

Arrest and guilty plea involving angry outburst to someone where domestic violence counseling was deemed an appropriate sentence is disqualifying for this show, any one us should agree on that.  It's a match between two strangers, and all the Blah Blah Blah from the (Not Very) Experts about building trust is complete B.S. where there is this sort of history, if that's the case.

I just have this motive for people to see what a Complete Farce this show is, and the Utter Lack of Professional Integrity among the experts who tape hours and hours of footage based upon lies.  In the famous words of Elf to the Fake Santa in a favorite family Christmas movie, "you sit on a thrown of lies."

I get what you are saying but as an auditor you don't look at every thing so as this was in a state he lived in per his linked in I don't think it would be hard to find as its all public record. If this was someplace he was just in vacation that would be harder as less likely to find. Searching states where he has lived wouldn't be hard to do or out of the realm of reality imho. I know those are the states I would search. IMHO

Tiggerlgh wrote:

jlccaz wrote:

Tiggerlgh wrote:

Or maybe her family told her.  If a family member was in this show I would be googling/cyber stalking their spouse as soon as I got home to find out what I could about them.  And if I found something like this I would definitely tell them.

Fifty states / county / local criminal background checks cannot be done quickly, or merely via the internet.  So, I have this feeling that the background checks by producers pre-match are less than the gold standard (i.e., where you list all places of residence, and local -- sometimes in person -- checks are performed by professional investigations services in each locale).  On the other hand, this "hit" might have come up in an automated national search.  Not sure.  It's clearly a "hit" and the coincidence of the wedding date and the request for the record reflect that someone, whether on behalf of the Show, the Bride, or even the Groom, is not clear from the record.

Arrest and guilty plea involving angry outburst to someone where domestic violence counseling was deemed an appropriate sentence is disqualifying for this show, any one us should agree on that.  It's a match between two strangers, and all the Blah Blah Blah from the (Not Very) Experts about building trust is complete B.S. where there is this sort of history, if that's the case.

I just have this motive for people to see what a Complete Farce this show is, and the Utter Lack of Professional Integrity among the experts who tape hours and hours of footage based upon lies.  In the famous words of Elf to the Fake Santa in a favorite family Christmas movie, "you sit on a thrown of lies."

I get what you are saying but as an auditor you don't look at every thing so as this was in a state he lived in per his linked in I don't think it would be hard to find as its all public record.  If this was someplace he was just in vacation that would be harder as less likely to find.  Searching states where he has lived wouldn't be hard to do or out of the realm of reality imho.  I know those are the states I would search.  IMHO

These are service levels a company or potential employer would buy.  It is just a matter of what product one buys, and whether the applications collected all prior residences, etc.  I think this is a good question for the experts from someone like Bee who has a good relationship with them.  How are the background checks conducted?  Are prior arrests disqualifying?  Convictions?  What are the criteria?  To merely say "we do background checks on cast members" actually tells us and the potential castmates nothing.  What are they looking for -- where -- over what period of time -- what is disclosed to the other partner if there are arrests or convictions?  What is disqualifying, if anything?  All part of the underlying components of this supposed scientific "experiment".  They should reveal it.

Here is the Application for the Season 4 (South Florida) edition -- the weddings just took place a couple of weeks ago it seems.
https://marriedatfirstsight.castingcrane.com

One assumes that if you make it past the screen and are going to be matched, that you fill out forms consenting to the background checks.

Also -- the casting post for S4 started mid October so it's a three month lead up to the actual wedding. By the time they decide who to pass on to the experts, it must be a very small pool indeed. That would explain these utterly incompatible pairings.

Remember Season 1 the potential cast came to meetings and were unaware it was a TV show.

This is garden variety reality TV casting now, it seems ... and it shows!!

jlccaz wrote:

grace8136 wrote:Does a plea agreement between 8/14 and 10/2 mean that the charges could have changed? Or did he change his mind and plead guilty? Thanks for posting the info ArtemisGreen.

Now it seems odd that they sent them to Phoenix for their honeymoon. I wonder if David told her about it while there.

The timing strikes me as very normal period of time between arrest and resolution via plea.

If a weapon were involved there would I think be assault type charges.  This seems like property damage.  But imagine it would take something rather extreme for alleged victim to call the cops and for them to make an arrest, for the judge and prosecutor to require domestic violence counseling and restitution as part of the plea.  

What someone pleads to in an agreement may not relate to the conduct so much as taking that charge on a permanent record and being willing to accept the proposed consequence in the sentence.  Here I assume defendant was happy to avoid jail and pay restitution and attend classes.

It said Disorderly conduct-Disturbance, so maybe it was a neighbour who called the cops? Or they were in a public place and whatever he trashed wasn't the gf's but someone else's and he paid restitution to them. Who knows, but I don't think paying for whatever he damaged and taking some DV classes (which you can do online) is much of a punishment, so it can't have been that serious. Certainly no knife attack.

I do think they should disqualify everyone with a criminal record no questions asked, because I don't like how these failed matches lead into public mud-slinging with rumours flying around and past mistakes being dug up. That said, I don't think it's fair to assume David is some wife-beater because of something that happened 8 years ago, when we don't even know the details. I guess those DV classes were useful, since he's remained very calm with Ashley even when she was yelling at him and angrily stomping around. I really don't believe she was in any danger or even aware of the conviction unless David himself told her.

mindless wrote:

jlccaz wrote:

grace8136 wrote:Does a plea agreement between 8/14 and 10/2 mean that the charges could have changed? Or did he change his mind and plead guilty? Thanks for posting the info ArtemisGreen.

Now it seems odd that they sent them to Phoenix for their honeymoon. I wonder if David told her about it while there.

The timing strikes me as very normal period of time between arrest and resolution via plea.

If a weapon were involved there would I think be assault type charges.  This seems like property damage.  But imagine it would take something rather extreme for alleged victim to call the cops and for them to make an arrest, for the judge and prosecutor to require domestic violence counseling and restitution as part of the plea.  

What someone pleads to in an agreement may not relate to the conduct so much as taking that charge on a permanent record and being willing to accept the proposed consequence in the sentence.  Here I assume defendant was happy to avoid jail and pay restitution and attend classes.

It said Disorderly conduct-Disturbance, so maybe it was a neighbour who called the cops? Or they were in a public place and whatever he trashed wasn't the gf's but someone else's and he paid restitution to them. Who knows, but I don't think paying for whatever he damaged and taking some DV classes (which you can do online) is much of a punishment, so it can't have been that serious. Certainly no knife attack.

I do think they should disqualify everyone with a criminal record no questions asked, because I don't like how these failed matches lead into public mud-slinging with rumours flying around and past mistakes being dug up. That said, I don't think it's fair to assume David is some wife-beater because of something that happened 8 years ago, when we don't even know the details. I guess those DV classes were useful, since he's remained very calm with Ashley even when she was yelling at him and angrily stomping around. I really don't believe she was in any danger or even aware of the conviction unless David himself told her.  

My goodness, I certainly have made no "wife-beating" statements, assumptions, or innuendos, nor have I read anywhere on the Internet that people suggest the David on the Show was violent or even angry toward Ashley. My only point is how are two strangers supposed to make a marriage on that false start for trust?

It's a stupid, cruel joke ... on the viewing public ... really to characterize this as some "scientific experiment" where the expertises of bona fide psychologists, counsellors, etc. are applied to a large pool of qualified applicants, who are screened, and matched. It's a show where Reality TV cast wannabes agree to go through a legal wedding ceremony and stage pre-planned exercises, social events, and parties, at locations bought and paid for by production, and who receive weekly remuneration to do so. A really sweet concept from Season 1 has been bastardized and the Now Glammed-Up "experts" are the really despicable ones for me.

IMO one of the most interesting facts is that the court record reflects the arrest record was requested on June 4th, 2015. Wasn't that the day before, or very close to, the day the marriage took place? 

Another interesting coincidence (?) is that they spent their honeymoon in AZ. Wasn't it in the Scottsdale or Phoenix area? 

IMO the fact that he participated in Domestic Violence class is likely reflective that someone was affected by his violent and damaging actions. 

I grew up in a home with domestic violence. Yet, my father was extremely kind and well behaved around visitors and neighbors. Behind closed doors he was horrific. So just because someone, anyone, is well behaved in front of a camera crew doesn't really mean much, IMO.

ArtemisGreen wrote:IMO one of the most interesting facts is that the court record reflects the arrest record was requested on June 4th, 2015. Wasn't that the day before, or very close to, the day the marriage took place? 

The request was made 2 days before the wedding which IMO would have been too late for it to be production, I assume you get the record when the fee is paid which was June 29th as there is no set fee according to the website it is charged per hour on how long it took to find/copy etc the record. So David & Ashley were already 3 weeks into the marriage. I could be wrong though as I have never needed a record from Arizona, here we need to pay upfront and since DH needs federal clearance every 2 years we have needed a lot of records.

ArtemisGreen wrote:Another interesting coincidence (?) is that they spent their honeymoon in AZ. Wasn't it in the Scottsdale or Phoenix area? 

The honeymoons would be arranged before the couples would even be finalised IMO, production would try to get as much comped as possible and that takes time plus if that is the one state that David does have a record you think it would be the one that he would actually avoid.

ArtemisGreen wrote:IMO the fact that he participated in Domestic Violence class is likely reflective that someone was affected by his violent and damaging actions. 

I grew up in a home with domestic violence. Yet, my father was extremely kind and well behaved around visitors and neighbors. Behind closed doors he was horrific. So just because someone, anyone, is well behaved in front of a camera crew doesn't really mean much, IMO.

To me the fact that he was eligible for the program shows that this was probably his first offense, I am assuming this is the program he needed to complete
http://sagecounseling.net/programs.html

and to be eligible he needed to have no conviction for the previous 5 years in any state per
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03601-01.htm

If he had further incidences with the muck racking team Ashley has done they would have at insinuated about those as well, even with no concrete proof that this is the same David they have pointed people to the rumors more than once so why wouldn't they point out further instances. I do not agree with any form of domestic violence but I know that I myself have lost my temper in the moment and when I calmed down was not proud of my behavior. I could have been arrested many time over if the police followed me around 24/7, at uni we stole flowers from the nearly botanical gardens nearly weekly to us it was a harmless joke, looking back we could have been in some serious trouble if we got caught. Not to mention the loud fights we got into as young adults, I did not learn that loud arguing does not equal passion until my early 20's, heck people still tell me that I mustn't love my husband as we do not argue at 44 they do not realize that no we do not always agree but we do not raise our voices and some things you just need to let go. Both of us grew up in a loud aggressive environment and it took us some time and effort to learn that it was not the best way to communicate, I commend anybody that is willing to change.

At the end of the day since this is a legal marriage as the experts keep stressing IMO anybody with a record should be excluded as you do not know what is acceptable to the new spouse and we all have different levels of what we are willing to accept. As this is a marriage the criteria should be more stringent but then they would not have a show as lets face it it does take a certain type of person to apply for reality TV and even those people would be whittled down further as some would not want to marry even for their 15 minutes.

If this is the same David then Ashley has a right to be pissed at production and the experts if it was a deal breaker for her, but she was married after we had all seen Ryan DeNino and his temper if that was not a red flag to pull out I do not know what else would be.

crazychicken wrote:

ArtemisGreen wrote:IMO one of the most interesting facts is that the court record reflects the arrest record was requested on June 4th, 2015. Wasn't that the day before, or very close to, the day the marriage took place? 

The request was made 2 days before the wedding which IMO would have been too late for it to be production, I assume you get the record when the fee is paid which was June 29th as there is no set fee according to the website it is charged per hour on how long it took to find/copy etc the record. So David & Ashley were already 3 weeks into the marriage. I could be wrong though as I have never needed a record from Arizona, here we need to pay upfront and since DH needs federal clearance every 2 years we have needed a lot of records.

ArtemisGreen wrote:Another interesting coincidence (?) is that they spent their honeymoon in AZ. Wasn't it in the Scottsdale or Phoenix area? 

The honeymoons would be arranged before the couples would even be finalised IMO, production would try to get as much comped as possible and that takes time plus if that is the one state that David does have a record you think it would be the one that he would actually avoid.

ArtemisGreen wrote:IMO the fact that he participated in Domestic Violence class is likely reflective that someone was affected by his violent and damaging actions. 

I grew up in a home with domestic violence. Yet, my father was extremely kind and well behaved around visitors and neighbors. Behind closed doors he was horrific. So just because someone, anyone, is well behaved in front of a camera crew doesn't really mean much, IMO.

To me the fact that he was eligible for the program shows that this was probably his first offense, I am assuming this is the program he needed to complete
http://sagecounseling.net/programs.html

and to be eligible he needed to have no conviction for the previous 5 years in any state per
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03601-01.htm

If he had further incidences with the muck racking team Ashley has done they would have at insinuated about those as well, even with no concrete proof that this is the same David they have pointed people to the rumors more than once so why wouldn't they point out further instances. I do not agree with any form of domestic violence but I know that I myself have lost my temper in the moment and when I calmed down was not proud of my behavior. I could have been arrested many time over if the police followed me around 24/7, at uni we stole flowers from the nearly botanical gardens nearly weekly to us it was a harmless joke, looking back we could have been in some serious trouble if we got caught. Not to mention the loud fights we got into as young adults, I did not learn that loud arguing does not equal passion until my early 20's, heck people still tell me that I mustn't love my husband as we do not argue at 44 they do not realize that no we do not always agree but we do not raise our voices and some things you just need to let go. Both of us grew up in a loud aggressive environment and it took us some time and effort to learn that it was not the best way to communicate, I commend anybody that is willing to change.

At the end of the day since this is a legal marriage as the experts keep stressing IMO anybody with a record should be excluded as you do not know what is acceptable to the new spouse and we all have different levels of what we are willing to accept. As this is a marriage the criteria should be more stringent but then they would not have a show as lets face it it does take a certain type of person to apply for reality TV and even those people would be whittled down further as some would not want to marry even for their 15 minutes.

If this is the same David then Ashley has a right to be pissed at production and the experts if it was a  deal breaker for her, but she was married after we had all seen Ryan DeNino and his temper if that was not a red flag to pull out I do not know what else would be.

Disagree about the record. Makes sense that legal counsel would want copy of record for liability issues. We have all seen the lack of thoroughness by MAFS. It does not show any other requests. IMO
The Domestic Violence class and the Psychological Counseling reflect that someone else was involved. im very familiar with Family Law.
Was Davina aware she was marrying a felon on probation? Was Ashley aware she was marrying a man who has been in jail and court mandated to DV classes and Psychological Counseling? IMO very sloppy on MAFS part.