Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - #9

nd4reality wrote:I am probably in the minority but ITA with your definition of the cast that go on this series.
And quite possibly there is a definition for me for even watching.

Haha! This post made me laugh and I totally agree.

I personally would consider it "whoreish" if anyone, male or female, within days slept with any of their F2 or F3 if they KNEW they were in love with and planned to accept a proposal from their F1. I don't see how you can sleep with someone you know you are not in love with, and at the same time know you are in love with someone else. I'm older, so maybe today's 20-somethings view it differently, and that's okay. To make matters worse, she lied about it for weeks. In Kaitlyn's case, she told Shawn right away and it was up to him whether he could get over it. I have a little more respect for her for fessing up so soon. Josh had to deal with the sex and then the lie. BIP is a little different to me where there is no lead with 25 potential mates. They can hook up with whoever they want.

Was Josh's FS filmed before or after Nick's?

Well I guess I'm in the minority. I consider it a derogatory term and my already low opinion of Josh sunk even lower. Not as low as Andi's but still low.

Mustang19 wrote:I personally would consider it "whoreish" if anyone, male or female, within days slept with any of their F2 or F3 if they KNEW they were in love with and planned to accept a proposal from their F1. I don't see how you can sleep with someone you know you are not in love with, and at the same time know you are in love with someone else. I'm older, so maybe today's 20-somethings view it differently, and that's okay. To make matters worse, she lied about it for weeks. In Kaitlyn's case, she told Shawn right away and it was up to him whether he could get over it. I have a little more respect for her for fessing up so soon. Josh had to deal with the sex and then the lie. BIP is a little different to me where there is no lead with 25 potential mates. They can hook up with whoever they want.  

Was Josh's FS filmed before or after Nick's?

I totally agree. That's always been my opinion. Re the second bold, it boggles my mind she kept that secret for so long and acted as if it didn't happen. No wonder she didn't want to talk to #26 and of course made him out to be the stalker. Even in her book she accuses him of writing the letter as a prop. You're whole life Andi Dorfman is a prop, a fake one IMHO.

nd4reality wrote:I am probably in the minority but ITA with your definition of the cast that go on this series.
And quite possibly there is a definition for me for even watching.

Agree.
I attach many meanings to the word whore beyond the sexual. Things are said in the heat of the moment. I've said such and worse I'm sure.  
One difference is I don't publicize it in a book. It's bad enough I have faults without wearing a sandwich sign advertising them and then walk Time Square asking for tips. 
What we do here, IMO is called rubber necking.

You mean #25  GA?

Kashathediva wrote:

nd4reality wrote:I am probably in the minority but ITA with your definition of the cast that go on this series.
And quite possibly there is a definition for me for even watching.

Agree.
I attach many meanings to the word whore beyond the sexual. Things are said in the heat of the moment. I've said such and worse I'm sure.  
One difference is I don't publicize it in a book. It's bad enough I have faults without wearing a sandwich sign advertising them and then walk Time Square asking for tips. 
What we do here, IMO is called rubber necking.

I watch this show for the silliness it is...some hot, crazy people, some nice travel and occasionally, some real romance. It relaxes me and takes my mind off my stressful job. In addition, I have a whole lot of fun with all you here keeping up with the wonderful sleuthing and the snark. Occasionally, when the fun, "show" crazy seems to cross that line into real life crazy...like this whole saga with Andi/Josh/Nick/JPab... I wonder if by watching I am creating these self absorbed, attention seeking narcissists and what that makes me? Logically I know that I had nothing to do with Andi being the witch that she is, but still, if I hadn't watched, she wouldn't be having this platform to attack Josh, Nick, JPab that she now, unfortunately does. No doubt, she would still be a crazy, vengeful ex, but she might not have spiraled down to the depths that she seems to be now reaching.

Eventually, I snap out of my funk and remember that there are plenty of people who have gone on the show and come out of it just fine. They had fun, traveled, made new friends and some even got spouses and children as a result. They enjoyed their time on the show and either used it to their advantage to make new opportunities for themselves or went back to their real lives and now just have some good stories to tell their friends. Ultimately, the responsibility is on them. The show can highlight their strengths and weaknesses...sometimes cruelly...but, it is their own character that ultimately decides if they learn from that experience. So far Josh is handling things well. I'm curious to see if he can continue to take the high road or if she will suck him back into the crazy vortex. I'm still on the fence about him, but his response to the baiting about his character that will come from this book will tell me a lot.

bleuberry wrote:Yeah, defamation of character, etc. I don't believe Josh would (or should) take the high road if she were accusing him of stuff he didn't say. It could affect him professionally and personally. This is not something he would want floating around about him if it didn't happen. Andi is dumb, but I dont think she's making up stuff to sell the book from thin air. Exaggerating and stretching the truth? Sure. I'm sure their relationship gave her more than enough material to work with. JMO.

I agree. All Josh had to say to clear his name was that he didn't call her a whore. It didn't need to be a long he said/she said fight.

If he didn't call her a whore, then I think he should have definitely denied it. I believe it because Josh didn't deny it. I see Josh as the type of person who will defend himself if he's being unfairly accused of something. He's not the type to sit back and say 'I'll take the high road and not say anything' if someone made untrue allegations against him. I think if someone unfairly attacks his character like that, the right thing to do is to deny it if it's not true.

Josh made comments about Andi on his periscopes, he liked and responded to a tweet from someone who said she was glad that he was out of that '8 month nightmare'. He does acknowledge comments relating to Andi if it makes her look bad. He doesn't sit back, take the high road and ignore it all. Why choose to take the 'high road' now?
For me, his comment doesn't make him look good. It makes him look bad because it confirms that he did say those things about her and he can't deny it now.

I don't believe me watching Andi as a contestant or as the lead has lead to her downward spiral. That is fully on her.

Perhaps some of the blame goes to the folk that have idolized her appearance in the series through varios means. But it's more the background puppet masters that have encouraged every inch of her journey in making her believe in some glorified version of herself. 
Please.

Imo josh did say those things and in all likelyhood not say anything in his defence. But the fallout of that was a broken engender (amount possibly other things) so it's over. until  her ladyship has dredged things back up.

you can let really pair emotional abuse with him calling her a whore. For all we know it could have been a heat of the moment reaction when she told him about Nick, someone saying your a whore once in the heat doesn't make it emotional abuse. It's not fair to him or to anyone to base judgements on one snippet or one opinion. Everyone has said something in the heat of the moment that they regret, I've called my husband an censored before during a heated moment, does that make me a horrible person? Nope. Guy literally was living a lie and was about to be exposed on national tv I think he has a right to be PO about it. People who are emotionally abused are often ashamed and embarrassed about it not off telling the world trying to make a buck and not taking every press op they can to tell people about it. Does the guy have a temper probably is he wrong for some of his behaviour? Yup but he's growing and learning and making mistakes and unlike the rest of us someone is out trying to expose them all.

I honestly do not have a problem with Josh even if that word was used. 
Just out of curiosity I sought out Webster's definition. source
This was numero 3:

[list=definition-list]
[*]3:  a venal or unscrupulous person. 

an example: 
[*]For writers, to blurb or not to blurb can be a tricky matter. … Blurb too often, or include too many blurbs on your book, and you might get called a blurb whore. —Rachel Donadio, New York Times Book Review, 17 Aug. 2008

[/list]

In an article from Atlanta Magazine, she said he called her a whore if she talked to another man, called her selfish and unappreciative, called her argumentative if she disagreed with him and called a b*tch if she defied him. Additionally, if it's true that he wanted her to be a domestic wife while he worked, that's another issue. In isolation, each of these issues might not amount to emotional abuse, but imo, collectively they do. If he felt like that about her, he should have broken up with her earlier and instead of staying in the relationship and saying those things. Again, while I believe that he did call her those things, I also don't know how exaggerated her statements are. I don't know if he called her all these things for the entire relationship or if it was just the last month when things were really bad between them.