The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

IMO tptb know that Ben is sensitive (in a good way, I believe) and because he doesn't like to hurt anyone, he was kept off-balance by the producers by them telling him how much certain women were into him, helping to manufacture feeling in him. And he did like them (and liked kissing them, too). Between that, it being hard for him before the Bachelor to even think about dating (seriously) more than one woman at a time (so tptb could massage his guilt a little), they were able to inspire lots of emotion for Ben and get a whole lot for the camera. Just as, I think, last season, tptb preyed on Kaitlyn's guilt- and massaged it enough to make a show out of that mess (mess because it didn't follow the usual path). So I don't really think Ben was acting, but tptb just know how to push what's already going on to get more (sort of like training a dog- you work with the natural behaviors and reinforce the ones you want repeated).

jcrbil wrote:IMO tptb know that Ben is sensitive (in a good way, I believe) and because he doesn't like to hurt anyone, he was kept off-balance by the producers by them telling him how much certain women were into him, helping to manufacture feeling in him.  And he did like them (and liked kissing them, too).  Between that, it being hard for him before the Bachelor to even think about dating (seriously) more than one woman at a time (so tptb could massage his guilt a little), they were able to inspire lots of emotion for Ben and get a whole lot for the camera.  Just as, I think, last season, tptb preyed on Kaitlyn's guilt- and massaged it enough to make a show out of that mess (mess because it didn't follow the usual path).  So I don't really think Ben was acting, but tptb just know how to push what's already going on to get more (sort of like training a dog- you work with the natural behaviors and reinforce the ones you want repeated).

Building on what they already get. I said the same.

Great posts here this morning!!

Everyone but the winner will be blindsided because tptb convince every single person they are the frontrunner.  It has been said by so many past cast that it has to he the case.  So... Ben may try not to blindside anyone, by trying to drop hints but if tptb are in her other ear screaming she has the number one spot, the quiet hints do nothing.  So yeah, bad wording on his part imo, but my opinion is that it was not intentional.  Ben has never said he is perfect.  Tptb set him up with the perfrct ten thing, but he is entitled to use poor wording or make mistakes, because no one is perfect!  P.s.  Why can I not gently say "I don't think it is fair to say..." but someone else can say, "Ben is stupid.." and that is okay?

Just to clarify, I was not trying to be snarky in asking that question, I just truly cannot figure out what is allowed in regards to opinions.  

jcrbil wrote:IMO tptb know that Ben is sensitive (in a good way, I believe) and because he doesn't like to hurt anyone, he was kept off-balance by the producers by them telling him how much certain women were into him, helping to manufacture feeling in him.

And I think that would be particularly effective with Ben who has some "inner demons" about loving someone and not being loved by them in return. That's exactly the buttons they would push to make Ben "feel" love - at least in the bubble and for as long as that's what they want him to feel.

And he did like them (and liked kissing them, too).  Between that, it being hard for him before the Bachelor to even think about dating (seriously) more than one woman at a time (so tptb could massage his guilt a little), they were able to inspire lots of emotion for Ben and get a whole lot for the camera.

IMO TPTB prey on the "unusualness" of the situation to get the responses they want from off-balance leads. This isn't the first time I've heard a lead say they were in love with two women at the same time and I think most meant it - at least to some extent. The fact that this theme repeats season after season just illustrates to me how producer driven it really is - if it was truly organic it wouldn't happen with the regularity that it does.

That said, by the time the FRC rolls around the lead has suddenly gotten the clarity they previously lacked and is certain who they want to pick, get's engaged and the show gets the "twirl" at the end that they always seem to get. IMO this is also not organic but is equally the result of TPTB manipulation. It's like "be confused until we tell you to be certain and then - be certain".

Idk, I just can't imagine Ben, who was literally unhealthyly obsessed with Lauren from day 1, admit to loving another girl, when that could sabatodge his realtionship with Lauren. If he didn't believe those words he was saying...I don't think he would of said them. How is that supposed to make Lauren feel..?! The girl already had problems with opening up and and blah blah. I just don't think Ben would risk he and Lauren having a shot at a real relationship, by saying what he did about f2...if he didn't mean it. That's embarrassing for Lauren, her family, JoJo, her family, and Ben and his family.

Also, I suspect Ben will get a lot of sh*t come the finale. Admitting to loving two girls and then going ahead and proposing to one? That's not gonna sit well with people. Especially if he doesn't tell his f1 that he "loved" f2 (on camera.) Good luck Ben! You're gonna need it! Plus, people are gonna give Lauren sh*t too for accepting a proposal from a man that said he "loved" another girl. Good luck to Lauren too! The only one who comes out looking good in this is JoJo TBH. Lol
I guess this depends on how it airs and how they ALL come across on ATFR, but still...people aren't going to be happy.

Well if they choose to move filming ahead that could be a set up for JoJo as B'ette?

rhondam wrote:Well if they choose to move filming ahead that could be a set up for JoJo as B'ette?

Possibly. But I feel like with the storyline of "breaking up with her ex and having trouble with opening up to falling in love with Ben and him loving her too" makes it unlikely. TPTB are gonna want EMOTIONS on ATFR.

It is a conundrum! Yea, if it were just previews that had the "ILY's" being shown, I'd suspect some splice and dice. When Ben admitted it himself that he was in love with two women, I think he told them, or he only told one and the other is spliced and diced, and the woman he chose now knows, if she didn't before, that he was in love with the other while proposing to her. Is this the first time we have heard/seen a bachelor (ette) admit their love prior to the FRC? That's certainly new to me.

I'm still circling around the Mesnick situation. Are we blowing this up? Or does the theory that he switches from one to the other either at the end or post show hold water? I think Jason's situation was a once in a lifetime deal...maybe Ben proposed to Lauren (as per RS's spoilers), it didn't work out, and now he's with Jojo, or tried to get back together with Jojo? Molly (Jason's wife) also seems really rare that she took him back after proposing to Melissa. Not many women would do that, unless he proved his total remorse.

Does anyone else feel that Lauren B is so obvious right now means that's what Producers want us to see for the big surprise that it's Jojo (purposefully excluding really key Jojo scenes that would make the GA believe she's the one instead??)

But, the way he looks/ acts with Lauren B. is overpowering. I want to rewatch just to see the tender look of adoration when he listens to her. Do you think his feelings change or diminish at all, giving Jojo an edge? Can't wait for MONDAY!!!!!