The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

I think marriage itself is a test and the learning curve a daily thing.

Imo, Ben and Lauren will have to make the choice to love each other and do the work that requires a healthy and happy relationship. As long as they have trust, respect, and are caring towards one another then it will be work that is worth it, imo. I have hope for them but don't expect it to be easy sailing either.

relaxing wrote:

eversotrue wrote:All I'm saying CHRIS is saying it, BEN is saying it, the PROMO said it. Who else has to say it for it to be deemed true? LOL

Yeah I agree, it's a storyline TPTB are going to milk, but it's a storyline because of the emotion and words Ben used during the final days.  I don't believe the emotions he showed were an act and that he was totally scripted to say "I love you" to two women.  I know TPTB manipulate and edit for max drama but I also tend to believe they base their story off what is actually happening, they just use edit tricks and manipulation to heighten it.

I really like Ben and Lauren and think he is a goner for her.  But I've really, really liked his scenes with Jojo too and I can see a lot there as well - both a friendship and chemistry.  I think this is a season where he knew who his number 1 was, but he had a number 2 he really cared for, had a lot of chemistry with and developed a bond with too and we're going to see his genuine anguish at having to hurt her, despite how much he wants to be with Lauren.  I don't think him falling head over heels for Lauren precludes him from also really bonding with Jojo and feeling confused at the end.

Assuming RS is right and he was all in for Lauren and playing a role after, what are TPTB supposed to do? they have to put doubt in there!

I agree Sophie, they have to build a show.  There's always something at the end - someone leaves or comes back or the lead has an emotional meltdown/turmoil. But though I see Ben's gaga for Lauren, but I don't believe there's nothing with Jojo and it's just a scripted role.  That's JMO.

I just don't buy that Ben is such a perfect person madly in love with Lauren from the first day he spent with her that the end is "just" TPTB making it a show.  I don't believe it's just a storyboard and he had to say certain things to or about Jojo.  I see a lot between them too. Maybe watching it play out it will seem that way near the end, but as of now, I can easily see him very into both girls.

I also don't think Ben should get a pass if he tells Jojo he loves her before the FRC.  That's a huge leadon and blindside and as TPTB are going with it as their end of season drama and is pretty crappy to the girls, IMO.  JoJo will be blindsided after that, and I'm sure that's why they showed his terrible promise to her this week not to do that - first ATFR talking point right there. CH seemed giddy to show the preview and Ben looked sick watching it so to me that's because Ben gave them the drama they needed at the end and they have the footage to get people talking.  That's what they do.  I don't buy it's just a role or act or script, personally.

Hey

I am not saying it's all fake  But I am saying I have yet to see evidence he told her he loved her in a "I'm in love with you " way. We have had a lot of previous leads, including married ones, with the "i fell in love with 2..." line. I posted a few a while back. 

Right now, my focus is when he let F2 go, and of course is the spoiler true. The rest is TPTB manipulation at best, bubble love at worst. 

I do see a real good thing between Ben and Jojo BTW. I just think she is a great girl (would love her as the next lead) and he sees that, and her energy is great, but not what he wants/needs(or thinks he wants/ needs_ for a wife. 

JMO of course! I love all these discussions and points of view!

relaxing wrote:I agree Sophie, they have to build a show.  There's always something at the end - someone leaves or comes back or the lead has an emotional meltdown/turmoil. But though I see Ben's gaga for Lauren, but I don't believe there's nothing with Jojo and it's just a scripted role.  That's JMO.

I just don't buy that Ben is such a perfect person madly in love with Lauren from the first day he spent with her that the end is "just" TPTB making it a show.  I don't believe it's just a storyboard and he had to say certain things to or about Jojo.  I see a lot between them too. Maybe watching it play out it will seem that way near the end, but as of now, I can easily see him very into both girls.

I also don't think Ben should get a pass if he tells Jojo he loves her before the FRC.  That's a huge leadon and blindside and as TPTB are going with it as their end of season drama and is pretty crappy to the girls, IMO.  JoJo will be blindsided after that, and I'm sure that's why they showed his terrible promise to her this week not to do that - first ATFR talking point right there. CH seemed giddy to show the preview and Ben looked sick watching it so to me that's because Ben gave them the drama they needed at the end and they have the footage to get people talking.  That's what they do.  I don't buy it's just a role or act or script, personally.

Your posts have been right on point for me relaxing. I completely agree with you.

It's well documented that's I'm not a huge fan of Nick, but I have agreed with a lot of what he has had to say on the Afterbuzz show. He claims producers can't force you to do anything. What you see is what a contestant or a lead gives them essentially, and the producers will use it to their benefit.

We've seen plenty of leads do an acting job at the end, but IMO, if that preview is to be believed, that's not acting. I cannot see him having to go that far and to that extent to create doubt. I also don't see what the big deal is. If we take a look at the last few seasons of the bachelor and the bachelorette, the lead has been very close to the F2 person. I have no issues believing that Ben felt like he was in love with two women and could see a future with both of them. He picked Lauren, so obviously when he had to make the choice, he picked her.

JoJo was unfair to ask to not be blindsided by Ben. It's not up to him, she basically offered them the blindside on a platter herself, and can't blame anyone but herself. It'll be sad and heartbreaking if/when he does blindside her, but all of this is sad and heartbreaking for Ben, Lauren and JoJo. And they all signed up for it. TPBP were clapping their hands when JoJo asked that, and with Ben's answer they started already to plan JoJo's part at  the AFTR. 

I still remember on Bachelor Pad, when Hollie wasn't allowed to tell Michael she'd gotten engaged to Blake. TPBP were clapping their hands at Michael's heartbreak and hurt, right there on the show. This is what they're hoping for with Ben/JoJo.

I think it might be starting to hit Ben what a sick and twisted show this is and how he's played a part in it.

TPTB don't build their stories out of thin air. They work with what they get. Absolutely no more to say on that. Plus, I can't see Ben agreeing to lead a girl on to that extent and involving his dang parents and risking his relationship with Lauren, if he didn't actually believe what he was saying/doing (being in love with two girls.) The end. IMO.

Fingersandtoes wrote:JoJo was unfair to ask to not be blindsided by Ben. It's not up to him, she basically offered them the blindside on a platter herself, and can't blame anyone but herself. It'll be sad and heartbreaking if/when he does blindside her, but all of this is sad and heartbreaking for Ben, Lauren and JoJo. And they all signed up for it. TPBP were clapping their hands when JoJo asked that, and with Ben's answer they started already to plan JoJo's part at  the AFTR. 

I still remember on Bachelor Pad, when Hollie wasn't allowed to tell Michael she'd gotten engaged to Blake. TPBP were clapping their hands at Michael's heartbreak and hurt, right there on the show. This is what they're hoping for with Ben/JoJo.

I think it might be starting to hit Ben what a sick and twisted show this is and how he's played a part in it.

Yes and no. Obviously, Ben can't promise her anything...cause this is a show and the premise is basically to wait to the very last minute to drop the bomb on the f2....even though Ben stupidly did promise her wouldn't.. But at the same time, she just asked him to talk to her about any concerns he would have..because she would obviously want to know. I think it was more than anything, just the communication aspect that she wanted. He shouldn't have made that promise at all though, so I think it was his "bad", more than hers. I don't even think she did anything wrong though, since most of these people ask for validation in some way.

relaxing wrote:I agree Sophie, they have to build a show.  There's always something at the end - someone leaves or comes back or the lead has an emotional meltdown/turmoil. But though I see Ben's gaga for Lauren, but I don't believe there's nothing with Jojo and it's just a scripted role.  That's JMO.

I just don't buy that Ben is such a perfect person madly in love with Lauren from the first day he spent with her that the end is "just" TPTB making it a show.  I don't believe it's just a storyboard and he had to say certain things to or about Jojo.  I see a lot between them too. Maybe watching it play out it will seem that way near the end, but as of now, I can easily see him very into both girls.

I also don't think Ben should get a pass if he tells Jojo he loves her before the FRC.  That's a huge leadon and blindside and as TPTB are going with it as their end of season drama and is pretty crappy to the girls, IMO.  JoJo will be blindsided after that, and I'm sure that's why they showed his terrible promise to her this week not to do that - first ATFR talking point right there. CH seemed giddy to show the preview and Ben looked sick watching it so to me that's because Ben gave them the drama they needed at the end and they have the footage to get people talking.  That's what they do.  I don't buy it's just a role or act or script, personally.

Ash2214 wrote:

relaxing wrote:I agree Sophie, they have to build a show.  There's always something at the end - someone leaves or comes back or the lead has an emotional meltdown/turmoil. But though I see Ben's gaga for Lauren, but I don't believe there's nothing with Jojo and it's just a scripted role.  That's JMO.

I just don't buy that Ben is such a perfect person madly in love with Lauren from the first day he spent with her that the end is "just" TPTB making it a show.  I don't believe it's just a storyboard and he had to say certain things to or about Jojo.  I see a lot between them too. Maybe watching it play out it will seem that way near the end, but as of now, I can easily see him very into both girls.

I also don't think Ben should get a pass if he tells Jojo he loves her before the FRC.  That's a huge leadon and blindside and as TPTB are going with it as their end of season drama and is pretty crappy to the girls, IMO.  JoJo will be blindsided after that, and I'm sure that's why they showed his terrible promise to her this week not to do that - first ATFR talking point right there. CH seemed giddy to show the preview and Ben looked sick watching it so to me that's because Ben gave them the drama they needed at the end and they have the footage to get people talking.  That's what they do.  I don't buy it's just a role or act or script, personally.

Your posts have been right on point for me relaxing. I completely agree with you.

It's well documented that's I'm not a huge fan of Nick, but I have agreed with a lot of what he has had to say on the Afterbuzz show. He claims producers can't force you to do anything. What you see is what a contestant or a lead gives them essentially, and the producers will use it to their benefit.

We've seen plenty of leads do an acting job at the end, but IMO, if that preview is to be believed, that's not acting. I cannot see him having to go that far and to that extent to create doubt. I also don't see what the big deal is. If we take a look at the last few seasons of the bachelor and the bachelorette, the lead has been very close to the F2 person. I have no issues believing that Ben felt like he was in love with two women and could see a future with both of them. He picked Lauren, so obviously when he had to make the choice, he picked her.

You're always right, so thank you.

Yes, Ben was stupid to promise her that. I think his age and perhaps lack of life experience are starting to show. He had good intentions telling her that, but he won't be allowed to keep that promise. TPBP will want the shock on camera. 

Both Lauren and JoJo seem like wonderful young ladies, I don't have any problem believing Ben fell for them both in bach love. We'll see if it lasts in real life.

Either way, JoJo and Lauren seem to still be friends. And JoJo seems to still think highly of Ben. So it's all good at this point. The future? Who knows.