The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Kashathediva wrote:

SueSt wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:This season really ratcheted up (or lowered the bar) on what one would normally consider  confidence of being F1.
Without all the other little things involved and focusing only on quantifying the sex act itself, what would make one think the other person had more going into the FRC?
This goes beyond the normal self confidence/insecurities and kind of boggles the mind. All you can really come away with is :shocked!:

More going in... hmmmm.  Are you talking about things the viewer can't see....  

Being blunt and classless --hell yeah. As far as a recipient is concerned if all the "right" things are happening and being said the only other things you can think to put you at a deficit is if the other recipient would be getting more of those things.

Blunt and classless are my middle names!
But seriously, the 'blunt and classless' things are easier to quantify probably... it's the other things that really make the horse race...
That's what you're saying, right?

Alanna wrote:I don't agree that more sex=f1 in Nick's mind. Apparently his party line is that sex with Andi was fiance stuff because it was the fs. Okay, fine. But then how can he reconcile sex with Kait as the same thing if he did it with her on the first night? That seems like fun hooking up to me, nothing more. Otherwise Nick's whole story from last season falls apart, which it does to me anyway, so whatever

I don't know if you read his piece on Sean Lowe's blog. His point is sex can be hurtful is man and woman have different expectations of what it means. Don't want to go back to last season but I guess, maybe this time, K and he mutually agreed pre fs sex was a spur of the moment passion?

Remembering that one guy generally does not know what is being done sex-wise or what is being said: (Shawn knew K and N were having sex. We don't know what N knew about S and K)
I would think if I was being physically intimate with someone and the right things were being said, that things were green light within that relationship. Most people would. Most people do.
Being blindsided would be a natural feeling, imo. Not to be discounted as this is TB, but still blindsided considering.
Good example: HDDA(Dr. Andy) and Bevin.

sdmom wrote:

Alanna wrote:I don't agree that more sex=f1 in Nick's mind. Apparently his party line is that sex with Andi was fiance stuff because it was the fs. Okay, fine. But then how can he reconcile sex with Kait as the same thing if he did it with her on the first night? That seems like fun hooking up to me, nothing more. Otherwise Nick's whole story from last season falls apart, which it does to me anyway, so whatever

I don't know if you read his piece on Sean Lowe's blog. His point is sex can be hurtful is man and woman have different expectations of what it means. Don't want to go back to last season but I guess, maybe this time, K and he mutually agreed pre fs sex was a spur of the moment passion?

Whether K& Nick agreed on a specific meaning or not, I think Nick's point was about context.
In the context of him getting ready to propose to SWSNBN, sex meant something particular.
Certainly, in the context of his relationship with K at the time, it would not carry the same meaning.

Kashathediva wrote:Remembering that one guy generally does not know what is being done sex-wise or what is being said: (Shawn knew K and N were having sex. We don't know what N knew about S and  K)
I would think if I was being physically intimate with someone and the right things were being said, that things were green light within that relationship. Most people would. Most people do.
Being blindsided would be a natural feeling, imo. Not to be discounted as this is TB, but still blindsided considering.
Good example: HDDA(Dr. Andy) and Bevin.

Gotcha. and I agree!

isittrue wrote:http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/24/bachelorette-finale-sneak-peek

I love the term in that "Purchase an engagement ring" LOL. More like be shown a limited selection chosen by tptb and Neil Lane!

Yup, I think that a person who has had casual sex is still able to be blindsided and heartbroken if sex is had without honesty. No matter who you are, it sucks to have sex with someone you are in love with, be told "I wish there were things I could say back", and then be dumped two days later. I'm not saying it's the worst things that's ever happened somebody, but I still think it sucks.

chasingpavements wrote:Yup, I think that a person who has had casual sex is still able to be blindsided and heartbroken if sex is had without honesty. No matter who you are, it sucks to have sex with someone you are in love with, be told "I wish there were things I could say back", and then be dumped two days later. I'm not saying it's the worst things that's ever happened somebody, but I still think it sucks.

Sure, but sex with Kait has been nothing but honesty- seems very causal considering they did it immediately, so Nick being "blind sided" because of it with Kait doesn't hold any water to me. Jmo.

SueSt wrote:

happygolucky wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:I also think that some of them are just "hurt" because they are wrapped up in the Bachelor Bubble, but get over it 30 seconds after they get on the plane going back home or feel better after they get the Bachelor gig out of it. I do think that Nick is probably the first F2 to be truly heartbroken since...I don't know, Molly or Arie? It's been a while since I've seen genuine heartbreak and not just humiliation and shock. I don't know how Nick feels this time; I have heard stories of him moving on and I hope he keeps things in perspective (aka he only knew Kaitlyn for ~3 months and she's 100% moved on) and won't appear desperate. I think closure is overrated and when someone makes it clear to you that they don't want you and never really cared for you, the best thing to do is accept that and realize that you were never meant to be.

 

"when someone makes it clear to you that they don't want you and never really cared for you"

I think that's called closure, no?  

Haha, good point! I guess I meant that verbal closure is overrated and that when somebody shows you who they are, you should believe them. In another words, when Andi refused to talk to Nick before the ATFR (which you can do without producers knowing, like Sean and Lindsay have done in the past) and appeared cold and unemotional at the ATFR, that should have been enough for Nick to realize "hey, this woman that I was crazy in love with...wasn't all that. She doesn't care about me AT ALL. Why am I replaying all of the thing she said to me and did to me?" I think that's sometimes easier said than done, but I really hope that Nick realizes this time. Kaitlyn downplays their relationship in blogs, refuses to talk about him, and doesn't defend him when he's getting attacked on her SM. That should be enough for Nick to realize that Kaitlyn never really cared that much about him.

Alanna wrote:I don't agree that more sex=f1 in Nick's mind. Apparently his party line is that sex with Andi was fiance stuff because it was the fs. Okay, fine. But then how can he reconcile sex with Kait as the same thing if he did it with her on the first night? That seems like fun hooking up to me, nothing more. Otherwise Nick's whole story from last season falls apart, which it does to me anyway, so whatever

Yes, I think if Nick went into this thinking like Shawn, that sex is just banging dudes, or becoming eskimo brothers, then Nick probably would feel differently. jmo

Alanna wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:Yup, I think that a person who has had casual sex is still able to be blindsided and heartbroken if sex is had without honesty. No matter who you are, it sucks to have sex with someone you are in love with, be told "I wish there were things I could say back", and then be dumped two days later. I'm not saying it's the worst things that's ever happened somebody, but I still think it sucks.

Sure, but sex with Kait has been nothing but honesty- seems very causal considering they did it immediately, so Nick being "blind sided" because of it with Kait doesn't hold any water to me. Jmo.

Oh, yeah - totally agree. Obviously, no one was in with anyone after after a drunken date in Dublin, so if Nick pulled the "why did you make love to me" thing again, it would be joke. I still think he was blindsided, but most F2s are. I guess he might be a little bit more shocked, considering that Kaitlyn had a pre-filming relationship with him and p*ssed off all the other guys by letting him stay, but I would hope that he was prepared since he's basically a Bachelorette expert now. He could teach classes on it.

Nibbles22 wrote:

Alanna wrote:I don't agree that more sex=f1 in Nick's mind. Apparently his party line is that sex with Andi was fiance stuff because it was the fs. Okay, fine. But then how can he reconcile sex with Kait as the same thing if he did it with her on the first night? That seems like fun hooking up to me, nothing more. Otherwise Nick's whole story from last season falls apart, which it does to me anyway, so whatever

Yes, I think if Nick went into this thinking like Shawn, that sex is just banging dudes, or becoming eskimo brothers, then Nick probably would feel differently.  jmo

No idea what Shawn thinks but Nick is the one who had sex with Kaitlyn immediately, so leads me to think it's just hooking up and nothing more, regardless of how many times they did it. Like chasing said, are they in love after drunk Dublin making out in a church? I highly doubt it.