The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - Epi 9 July 13th - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Whoever said up thread they thought Nick's dance at the HTD was adorable, so did I. I love a guy who can dork out.

As far as Shawn, I don't get the attraction, but I always say, there's no accounting for taste.

Either Kait was mandated to take Nick to the F2, or she really was torn. As much as I don't care for the turn this season has taken, I don't find Kaitlyn cold hearted. Nick helped her through her aftermath of CS's season, and hurting him isn't something she probably relished doing, unlike the smug one.

I do see a better, more relaxed Kaitlyn when she's with Nick, but that could be the editing. Bless her little heart, she's going to need a lot of support after this mess of a season.

TPTB, mysogonistic cruel people.

Bet2Win wrote:

BKay wrote:If K had seen the side of S that we saw tonight during his "talk" with Nick, she would have run fast and far. Can you imagine trying to resolve relationship issues with someone who won't let you speak, but just keeps yelling and over-talking when you try to respond? He couldn't express anything concrete, but was just emotional and acting like a school yard bully.

After watching this, she may think he'd never be that way with her, but I would bet he will. I've been there, done that and it only gets worse as time goes on.

He's sure coming off as a hot head.  I actually give props to CH tonight for pointing out to Kait Shawn's jealousy and isn't it something for her to be concerned about.  Kait is perceiving his jealousy as love, jealousy is never love, it's a control issue.  

Regarding the bolded Absolutely. Jealousy is never about love, it is always about control and trust issues.

soccermom333 wrote:

Maddy wrote:Chris Soules ‏@BachelorTV  
Sister's Question: How Many relationships have you had? Kaitlyn: Two....as in too many to count #TheBachelorette

Chris is a jack a@@  IMHO of course.    Please tell me this is not the real Chris.  

It's actually not him.  He has a completely different acct and this one gets changed to the latest bachelor in every season.  I believe it was started in Sean's season with Catherine.


Editing to change:

that acct was actually started in 2009 in Jason Mesnick's season.

Bet2Win wrote:From one petty poster to another:  Shawn's nose goes well with Kait's cock eye.  

Putting myself in the corner.  

I like that corner.

soccermom333 wrote:I just wish Nick would have talked with his family more.  I bet they did not want him to do it.  I wish he would have asked Kait if she loved him instead of guessing.  He messed up again and did not ask the right questions.  Oh well, he is fine post show and hopefully finds what he is looking for.  I do think he truly loved kait.  

In Nick's defense the lead is not supposed to say ILY until the FRC. So even if he asked, it wasn't like Kaitlyn could say yes or no. Of course she broke every rule anyway, so maybe she would have.

Aunties_Love wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Watching Kaitlyn with Shawn's family is making me angry at her for putting Nick's family through this again.  She only wanted Shawn it is obvious.  Why not bring Ben to this point.

I kind of love Shawn's dad.  

Why put Ben's family through it though?  I just don't understand that.  IMO, Why is it more important to not put Nick's family through it versus Ben's?

Because Nick's family already went through this and his mom was very hurt by the hate for her son last year. Ben is clean and wholesome, so it would not have been as awful for his family to go through it this time. JMO.

Bet2Win wrote:

BKay wrote:If K had seen the side of S that we saw tonight during his "talk" with Nick, she would have run fast and far. Can you imagine trying to resolve relationship issues with someone who won't let you speak, but just keeps yelling and over-talking when you try to respond? He couldn't express anything concrete, but was just emotional and acting like a school yard bully.

After watching this, she may think he'd never be that way with her, but I would bet he will. I've been there, done that and it only gets worse as time goes on.

He's sure coming off as a hot head.  I actually give props to CH tonight for pointing out to Kait Shawn's jealousy and isn't it something for her to be concerned about.  Kait is perceiving his jealousy as love, jealousy is never love, it's a control issue.  

One night my husband was surrounded by women, another woman walked up to me as I was standing on the other side of the room and asked me why wasn't I upset, wasn't I jealous.  I answered why would anything that put  that glow on my husbands face upset me, he was going home with me.  

You have to be confident in yourself first to be confident in your relationship.  Something that both Kait and Shawn appear to be lacking.

Bottom line, Shawn's an idiot.  

Jealousy is not normal, it is a sign of insecurity. If you have a real secure love, you don't need to be jealous. It takes being a grown up to realize that. I do wonder at the circumstances of Kaitlyn's parents divorce and how dysfunctional their marriage was, because she has some messed up ideas about what love looks like IMO.

BKay wrote:I just can't believe Nick came on this show again. Maybe he didn't mind gambling for himself, but his family too? His mom talking about how broken-hearted he was last time...how could he bring them into it again? I'd slap my brother s*^tless if he did it. Then being so confident.   Bad Nick, bad. Love you, but damn.

It's so obvious tptb are setting him up to try to get THE big blow-up from him and the-azzwipe at ATFR. And if Kaitlyn really did the deed 3 times with Nick, then it was only to ensure that he gave a really HUGE reaction at the FRC.

I want to smack Nick for putting his family through this again. And I think it says a lot about them that they did it to stand by him even though it hurt them. Nick owes his momma a huge I am sorry. Hopefully, he isn't the biggest idiot and doesn't even entertain being the bachelor. How many times do you let TPTB play you?

chasingpavements wrote:snipped

See, I think she HAS seen that side of him. In this episode, when she asked him about Nick, he just started going on about how angry he was, how manipulative and delusional Nick was, how if she picked Nick, he would sleep just fine, etc. He never actually explained the eskimo brothers thing, and made it seem like Kaitlyn was the bad guy here for daring to question a man she's known for weeks. For someone that calls Nick manipulative, he should take a look in the mirror! He fought with Kaitlyn the same way he fought with Nick. He fought in a way that the other person simply can't "win", because they are not getting a chance to talk and they are made to feel awful simply for expressing their feelings.

Either Kaitlyn finds his hostility and aggressiveness attractive (unfortunately, a lot of women equate it to being an alpha male = hot), or she's ignoring all these red flags because she's into him.

This was hugely manipulative and a big red flag to me. Shawn might not lie, he will just distract you by manipulating and making you feel bad to not answer the question. This is sneaky to me and a huge sign that you should not trust that person. An honest person admits their mistakes and an innocent one can answer without hesitation. Shawn was neither honest or innocent tonight IMO.

sissyintexas wrote:A 30 year-old woman betting a man to be naked at a beautiful resort golf course?  A guy who is immature enough to do it?  They are a tacky trashy match for each other.

This completely disgusted me on both their parts and to me showed why they are made for each other. They both act like they are in high school and seem to have the maturity of high school students. I hope Northern Ireland bans them both.

Sorry to add another post, but I also find Shawn being certain that Nick is there for the 15 minutes of fame and not for Kaitlyn an insult to Kaitlyn. Sorry Kaitlyn, you are not loveable enough for a guy to take that chance and come and try to woo you. Nope, only I can love you and want to take a chance for you, no one else. That kind of attitude is really an insult to Kaitlyn, she simply isn't good enough that Nick, who really knew her, not just a character on a tv show would chose to take a chance and try to win her heart. Nope only Shawn, the douchebag, was willing to take a chance to win her heart. I really don't understand how Kaitlyn doesn't see Shawn's attitudes and behavior as immature and slightly insulting. Her acceptance of his bad behavior has made me dislike her.

What was interesting to me is that Kaitlyn said she was afraid about the possibility of Shawn being a player and his reputation and we had Shawn earlier in the season talking about Kaitlyn's actions not matching her words.

They both had doubts but their infatuation/the bubble/romantic love will always overlook those if one lets them, imo. I don't see these two lasting very long... jmho

stuckinsc wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:I just wish Nick would have talked with his family more.  I bet they did not want him to do it.  I wish he would have asked Kait if she loved him instead of guessing.  He messed up again and did not ask the right questions.  Oh well, he is fine post show and hopefully finds what he is looking for.  I do think he truly loved kait.  

In Nick's defense the lead is not supposed to say ILY until the FRC.  So even if he asked, it wasn't like Kaitlyn could say yes or no. Of course she broke every rule anyway, so maybe she would have.

I agree with soccermom actually ... Nick messed up not asking and just assuming ...
It's true, the lead cannot answer ... but if she cared she would ... if she wouldn't, then that's the answer he needed ... so ask, should had asked all the questions that last year he didn't get before the finale ... otherwise last experience didn't teach him enough ... and if he needed one more lesson, so be it. Deal with it now.

BKay wrote:Maybe he didn't mind gambling for himself, but his family too? His mom talking about how broken-hearted he was last time...how could he bring them into it again? I'd slap my brother s*^tless if he did it. Then being so confident.   Bad Nick, bad. Love you, but damn.

Selfish reasons. That's why I call it, that Nick is a bit selfish and self-absorbed ... I don't hold it against him, because he is the one paying for his actions ... unfortunately, his family too (and I understand all too well how that feels like).

chasingpavements wrote:For someone that calls Nick manipulative, he should take a look in the mirror!

BINGO! Who calls it, should maybe look within.
Why that kind of characterization? - Maybe because someone actually recognizes himself / understands ... since he is judging through his own life experience (and what he would do in Nick's place) ... so it says more about Shawn.

MiaHawk wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:I find it interesting how the discussion has been how Shawn could forgive Kaitlyn for sleeping with Nick and yet Nick is the one who has now watched the show only to see that Kaitlyn told Shawn he was "the one" before she even slept with Nick and then Nick not being chosen at the end... makes me wonder why very little is discussed about K using and stringing Nick along (especially considering that many think K never liked him at all).

One would think if this was Ben H Kaitlyn did this to instead of Nick there would be a lot more sympathy for the guy who had to watch someone say someone else is "The one", have him sleep with her, propose to her, and then dump.  

I think it's hard for me to feel sorry for Nick in this situation, because he went through exactly the same thing with Andi. I think that Andi knew it was Josh from day one. I think that she distracted by Nick and had begun to seriously fall for him, but I don't think she was ever going to waver from the picture-perfect life she imagined with Josh. So, I do think she "used" Nick and had sex with him for fun, knowing that she was going to choose Josh. I felt sorry for Nick the first time, but I think that if he fell for that again, it's on him.

Just curious:
If a gal friend of yours briefly dated a guy, had sex and was dumped by him, would you have any sympathy for her? Probably, right?  
What if the following year she dated a second guy, had sex and was dumped by him, too? Would you then tell her 'It's on you. No more sympathy from me"?
Does it depend on the circumstances? Does it matter if your friend is a gal or a guy? Is it because it was televised?
These are all just things I ponder. No one right answer, just different perspectives. IMO  

Good question! I think if my friend ignored all the same signals, like the fact that the guy never said ILY to her or told her that she was the one for him, I would feel like she brought it on herself. I feel like Kaitlyn's giving him even more signals this time around than Andi did that he's not the one, like accusing him of telling the guys about sex (shows lack of trust), not listening to him when he expressed concerns about Shawn, and sending Nick back after their group date to spend more time with Shawn. Add to that that all the other guys are telling him that Shawn's the frontrunner? The guy should not be 99% sure that Kaitlyn's in love with him. As much credit we all give him for being such a thinker, it shows that he is susceptible to producer manipulation and lets overconfidence and love make him ignore glaring neon signs.

Also, the sex was 100% consensual. I didn't feel like Kaitlyn made any promises to him or lied to him about her feelings at that point. If Nick wanted to have sex only if he was F1, knowing how he felt last year, he should have said so. Instead, he slept with her when there ~10 guys left.

Yeah, Nick can't claim the sex with Kait was fiance stuff or that sex is oh so special loving making to him at this point any longer so I'm curious to see if he'll bring it up again at atfr.

stuckinsc wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:From one petty poster to another:  Shawn's nose goes well with Kait's cock eye.  

Putting myself in the corner.  

I like that corner.

soccermom333 wrote:I just wish Nick would have talked with his family more.  I bet they did not want him to do it.  I wish he would have asked Kait if she loved him instead of guessing.  He messed up again and did not ask the right questions.  Oh well, he is fine post show and hopefully finds what he is looking for.  I do think he truly loved kait.  

In Nick's defense the lead is not supposed to say ILY until the FRC.  So even if he asked, it wasn't like Kaitlyn could say yes or no. Of course she broke every rule anyway, so maybe she would have.  

Aunties_Love wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Watching Kaitlyn with Shawn's family is making me angry at her for putting Nick's family through this again.  She only wanted Shawn it is obvious.  Why not bring Ben to this point.

I kind of love Shawn's dad.  

Why put Ben's family through it though?  I just don't understand that.  IMO, Why is it more important to not put Nick's family through it versus Ben's?

Because Nick's family already went through this and his mom was very hurt by the hate for her son last year.  Ben is clean and wholesome, so it would not have been as awful for his family to go through it this time. JMO.

Bet2Win wrote:

BKay wrote:If K had seen the side of S that we saw tonight during his "talk" with Nick, she would have run fast and far. Can you imagine trying to resolve relationship issues with someone who won't let you speak, but just keeps yelling and over-talking when you try to respond? He couldn't express anything concrete, but was just emotional and acting like a school yard bully.

After watching this, she may think he'd never be that way with her, but I would bet he will. I've been there, done that and it only gets worse as time goes on.

He's sure coming off as a hot head.  I actually give props to CH tonight for pointing out to Kait Shawn's jealousy and isn't it something for her to be concerned about.  Kait is perceiving his jealousy as love, jealousy is never love, it's a control issue.  

One night my husband was surrounded by women, another woman walked up to me as I was standing on the other side of the room and asked me why wasn't I upset, wasn't I jealous.  I answered why would anything that put  that glow on my husbands face upset me, he was going home with me.  

You have to be confident in yourself first to be confident in your relationship.  Something that both Kait and Shawn appear to be lacking.

Bottom line, Shawn's an idiot.  

Jealousy is not normal, it is a sign of insecurity.  If you have a real secure love, you don't need to be jealous.  It takes being a grown up to realize that.  I do wonder at the circumstances of Kaitlyn's parents divorce and how dysfunctional their marriage was, because she has some messed up ideas about what love looks like IMO.

BKay wrote:I just can't believe Nick came on this show again. Maybe he didn't mind gambling for himself, but his family too? His mom talking about how broken-hearted he was last time...how could he bring them into it again? I'd slap my brother s*^tless if he did it. Then being so confident.   Bad Nick, bad. Love you, but damn.

It's so obvious tptb are setting him up to try to get THE big blow-up from him and the-azzwipe at ATFR. And if Kaitlyn really did the deed 3 times with Nick, then it was only to ensure that he gave a really HUGE reaction at the FRC.

I want to smack Nick for putting his family through this again.  And I think it says a lot about them that they did it to stand by him even though it hurt them.  Nick owes his momma a huge I am sorry.  Hopefully, he isn't the biggest idiot and doesn't even entertain being the bachelor.  How many times do you let TPTB play you?

chasingpavements wrote:snipped

See, I think she HAS seen that side of him. In this episode, when she asked him about Nick, he just started going on about how angry he was, how manipulative and delusional Nick was, how if she picked Nick, he would sleep just fine, etc. He never actually explained the eskimo brothers thing, and made it seem like Kaitlyn was the bad guy here for daring to question a man she's known for weeks. For someone that calls Nick manipulative, he should take a look in the mirror! He fought with Kaitlyn the same way he fought with Nick. He fought in a way that the other person simply can't "win", because they are not getting a chance to talk and they are made to feel awful simply for expressing their feelings.

Either Kaitlyn finds his hostility and aggressiveness attractive (unfortunately, a lot of women equate it to being an alpha male = hot), or she's ignoring all these red flags because she's into him.

This was hugely manipulative and a big red flag to me.  Shawn might not lie, he will just distract you by manipulating and making you feel bad to not answer the question.  This is sneaky to me and a huge sign that you should not trust that person.  An honest person admits their mistakes and an innocent one can answer without hesitation.  Shawn was neither honest or innocent tonight IMO.

sissyintexas wrote:A 30 year-old woman betting a man to be naked at a beautiful resort golf course?  A guy who is immature enough to do it?  They are a tacky trashy match for each other.

This completely disgusted me on both their parts and to me showed why they are made for each other.  They both act like they are in high school and seem to have the maturity of high school students.  I hope Northern Ireland bans them both.

IMO, it doesn't really matter if the family had been through it once or more than that, it can be a hurtful process and to feel that one guy is more deserving of going through it over another, imo really doesn't make sense.  IMO, if anyone is to blame it's Nick.  He's the one that decided to put HIS family through it all again and that is the one that's to blame, not Kaitlyn.  

Nick really isn't coming across as a guy that is deserving of sympathy as he's totally a whiny douch. IMO

As far as Nick goes, he really is too confident and a bad judge in this process for his own good.

I'm not invested in this season and after watching this episode all i can say is Nick will make one lucky lady so happy someday!

Why do I get the feeling that the producers dont like Shawn?