The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - Epi 9 July 13th - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

LenaActually wrote:

BlackHalo wrote:IMO, Shawn's biggest offense is complaining about sweet Jared getting a rose over him. 

And Jared STILL seems super hurt over it. I don't know how he'll recover, tbh:

Does it really matter if Jared was hurt or wasn't hurt? It was an entitled, douchey thing to say when Shawn didn't even realize he was being filmed.

BlackHalo wrote:

LenaActually wrote:

BlackHalo wrote:IMO, Shawn's biggest offense is complaining about sweet Jared getting a rose over him. 

And Jared STILL seems super hurt over it. I don't know how he'll recover, tbh:

Does it really matter if Jared was hurt or wasn't hurt? It was an entitled, douchey thing to say when Shawn didn't even realize he was being filmed.

Well...yeah! It shows that something you, as a viewer might think is douchey, but someone who actually knows Shawn, has spent time with him and considers him a friend, did not take offense to. Different strokes, man.

relaxing wrote:

avoice wrote:I think complex people don't come across well on TV. I for one would be crucified if I ever ventured into being a bachelorette. So many sound bites that would be misconstrued and used against me. I know this. ... and I'm a sweet lady  with an artistic temperament and quirky temperament. LOL. So, in view of this, I have all kinds of acceptance and grace towards the poor misunderstood and vilified people on reality TV. I kind of like Nick and Shawn, these ragamuffins and orangatangs ...

I just want to give this post a hug.

Awww... me too! Avoice what a lovely post. "Ragamuffins and orangatangs." Love it!! I see nothing wrong with Shawn at all and do not feel the need to "justify" anything he has done on the show. Actually, nothing wrong with any of the guys this season. IMHO

It is no secret I like Kaitlyn and I might not agree with everything she does, but I am enjoying the show.

Shawn acting that way was douchey. But as Jared showed with his exit, he is a pretty great guy and so for him to still like Shawn and be friendly with him is no surprise.

After last season, the only one who still hated Nick was Josh, even he and Marcus reached a truce. Brian who outed Nick for his joke about ending up with Andi and getting a dog named Murray spent the season Skypeing with him during each episode.

It is not unusual for the people on this show to walk away with much less hard feelings then we the viewers have.

LenaActually wrote:

BlackHalo wrote:IMO, Shawn's biggest offense is complaining about sweet Jared getting a rose over him. 

And Jared STILL seems super hurt over it. I don't know how he'll recover, tbh:

Wow, Shawn is a great guy reaching out to Jared. Happy they are friends. I bet jared will have nothing but wonderful things to say about Kait at the MTA.

That's the kind of guy Jared is.

BlackHalo wrote:IMO, Shawn's biggest offense is complaining about sweet Jared getting a rose over him. 

The way he said "You're saying she would rather have JARED over me?" definitely had that undertone of superiority and disdain. It's like how he always says things like "If she wanted Nick, I wouldn't want her" or "If she picks you at the end, I'll sleep just fine because I don't want to be with someone looking for that". It's like, he can't admit to even potentially being the "loser". If he loses, it's because he WANTED to. It doesn't even seem to have anything to do with Kaitlyn, just his arrogance that doesn't allow him to fathom that other guys have things to offer too.

I get that the guy was drunk, but one of his best friends had already been on the show and knew a lot about producer manipulation and interference. He probably watched Chris and Andi's seasons, since he knew so much about Kaitlyn and Nick. I don't know, I just don't buy that he's this totally naive guy who had no idea what was going on.

chasingpavements wrote:The way he said "You're saying she would rather have JARED over me?" definitely had that undertone of superiority and disdain. It's like how he always says things like "If she wanted Nick, I wouldn't want her" or "If she picks you at the end, I'll sleep just fine because I don't want to be with someone looking for that". It's like, he can't admit to even potentially being the "loser". If he loses, it's because he WANTED to. It doesn't even seem to have anything to do with Kaitlyn, just his arrogance that doesn't allow him to fathom that other guys have things to offer too.  

I get that the guy was drunk, but one of his best friends had already been on the show and knew a lot about producer manipulation and interference. He probably watched Chris and Andi's seasons, since he knew so much about Kaitlyn and Nick. I don't know, I just don't buy that he's this totally naive guy who had no idea what was going on.

ITA. Imo, everything seems to come back to Shawn and his feelings.
I cannot get over how he needed reassurance/validation before being told he was the one when confronting K in NYC.
And to the other guys Shawn said that Kaitlyn isn't his type if she chooses Nick/has him on the show in NYC.
All this was before being told he was "the one".
It's why I think that Shawn used his sulking to get Kaitlyn to spend time with him and probably even to get her to say he is the one in SA.
Heck, she is still reassuring Shawn that he is the one in her blogs.

AllAboutLove wrote:

maggieC wrote:I am a lurker but I must say this about Shawn.  If he is this jealous and possessive of Kaitlyn now, imagine what kind of a life she would have putting up with this kind of crap.  Because it would never end; I speak from experience.  I can't even stand the look in his eyes when he talks to her.  It's a threatening look.

ITA. I've felt/posted there's something off about Shawn since the getgo and long before even seeing Shawn confronting anyone... it is why I am hoping that I am wrong and I want to be wrong. IMO, you hit the nail on the head when it comes to the look in Shawn's eyes. I just hope for K's sake that it is just the edit because it would be a shame if later down the road all those who are defending Shawn (Kaitlyn included) find out that it's not just the edit/situation.  jmhoaa

I get what you mean BUT my experience from working with beaten women etc is that theese men usually are the opposite at the beginning of a relationship. They are sooo romantic and happy and you usually never believe that theese are the guys that abuse Women. If he would have been typical for such behaviour he would never have showed her that early what he was really feeling. That comes after a while. So... I am not so sure. Of course not everyone act like that but mostly thats how it works. Mostly its the guy you would NEVER suspect. I think Shawn is a very emotional guy that is easy manipulated. Do I think he has a temper? Yes I do but a lot of good guys have a temper. I have a temper. Lets not forget that this is not a normal situation. It could very well be that he is the worst now because it is a very stressed situation and it is NOT a normal situation. RS think he is the most manipulated person ever in this franshice and that the meetings were producer initiated. Would that surprise us? So... maybe we should give the guy a break until he and the others can explain. I do feel though that him not calling Nick by his name is childish and I think they should stop feeding him alkohol!!!!

2observe wrote:^^^The fact that no one has come forth before now and validated Shawn speaks volumes to me.  jmo

I think we never hear anything bad about Nick too, oh, except SWSNBM.
instead, many from the Bach Nation changed their minds and spoke up for him this sesson. Yet, some viewers still thought Nick is a villain. I have no word.

Miyala wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:

maggieC wrote:I am a lurker but I must say this about Shawn.  If he is this jealous and possessive of Kaitlyn now, imagine what kind of a life she would have putting up with this kind of crap.  Because it would never end; I speak from experience.  I can't even stand the look in his eyes when he talks to her.  It's a threatening look.

ITA. I've felt/posted there's something off about Shawn since the getgo and long before even seeing Shawn confronting anyone... it is why I am hoping that I am wrong and I want to be wrong. IMO, you hit the nail on the head when it comes to the look in Shawn's eyes. I just hope for K's sake that it is just the edit because it would be a shame if later down the road all those who are defending Shawn (Kaitlyn included) find out that it's not just the edit/situation.  jmhoaa

I get what you mean BUT my experience from working with beaten women etc is that theese men usually are the opposite at the beginning of a relationship. They are sooo romantic and happy and you usually never believe that theese are the guys that abuse Women. If he would have been typical for such behaviour he would never have showed her that early what he was really feeling. That comes after a while. So... I am not so sure. Of course not everyone act like that but mostly thats how it works. Mostly its the guy you would NEVER suspect. I think Shawn is a very emotional guy that is easy manipulated. Do I think he has a temper? Yes I do but a lot of good guys have a temper. I have a temper. Lets not forget that this is not a normal situation. It could very well be that he is the worst now because it is a very stressed situation and it is NOT a normal situation. RS think he is the most manipulated person ever in this franshice and that the meetings were producer initiated. Would that surprise us? So... maybe we should give the guy a break until he and the others can explain. I do feel though that him not calling Nick by his name is childish and I think they should stop feeding him alkohol!!!!

Just to clarify: I do not think of Shawn as someone who beats women. One doesn't have to have physical violence to be in an unhealthy relationship. Imo, what I have seen are red flags that suggest the (slim) possibility of an unhealthy dynamic with Shawn displaying questionable behavior not conducive for a healthy marriage, imo (and yes, the show itself is not conducive).

I do think that he came across as very sweet and into Kaitlyn in the beginning but that veered off into insecurity/trust/manipulative issues arena, imo. Even K's blogs are reassuring/defending Shawn and his behavior. 

Situation or not, those issues are heightened in this environment which makes me question why a guy like him, who admits he has trust issues, chooses to quit his job and go on The Bachelorette of all shows - where he will compete with other guys for one girl with these trust issues.   

I do agree he has a temper and that having an alcoholic drink in his hand is not helping things however in a lot of his SM pics he has a bottle/drink in his hand so that is nothing new. I just see him as immature, someone who plays head games and is needy/insecure and manipulative/entitled when he doesn't get his way (with Kaitlyn and the guys). jmo

What was the 1. thing that bothered many viewers last year about Nick (aside him spoiling the season pre-show)?
- Nick "saying" to guys that he was a "frontrunner".

The audience turned against Nick in that moment ... "How dare he?!"
- It was because most already believed Andi was going to pick Josh, who she had "chemistry" with, and Nick was perceived as too cocky, for believing that his connection and his love for the Bette was bigger and greater than what she could have with the others, and supposedly the rest of the guys were irritated by his attitude, because he let them know that.

This year, Shawn does the same, maybe he didn't say a word "frontrunner", but he sure made everyone around him aware that he is "The One" ... until Nick.

I don't feel like "criticizing" Shawn ... I just really wonder what all those people who criticized Nick for his behavior last year have to say about Shawn's this time? - Or it is all OK, because he is F1?

Nick's behavior in the "game for the girl" doesn't define who Nick is in his daily life with male acquaintances or women ... still some believe that it should, that it's the reason he was disliked, because he isn't a good guy to hang around with ... an opinion Shawn recently shared ...

... so if I read some stating the same thing but with the name replacement ... instead of Nick, written Shawn ... should that make it even? - all JMHO